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[–] 148 points 1 year ago (26 children)

I mean, they're not really wrong. Valve has a monopoly on game distribution the same way that Google has a monopoly on Internet search. Alternatives exist, but they aren't really competing with Steam.

Valve has so far been pretty pro-consumer which is how they got to where they are, but yhat doesn't really change the fact that they essentially get to set the rules for digital distribution of games.

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  • [–] 66 points 1 year ago (23 children)

    It's also a big risk, as they could always enshittify. It's a good platform now, but if Gabe dies or decides to give up his leadership position, that could all change very quickly.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (22 children)

    Yeah, the day Gabe leaves is going to be a sad day for gaming, because Steam is probably gonna get real shitty real quick. I’m sure some finance-minded jackasses will do their best to maximize short-term profit and fly the whole ecosystem into the ground at Mach 3.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (21 children)

    As long as it remains privately owned, it should be OK. The day shares go public, god forbid, will be the beginning of the end.

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  • [+] -23 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    Thats not true. Privately owned firms tend to be really bad because they don't have a feduciary duty to long term value. They suck everything dry. Private equity is the reason why daycare costs so much yet the daycare workers make minimum wage.

    Steam just happens to be fine under private ownership because it makes enough profit for Gabe to be satisfied.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (12 children)
  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    The first sentence

    When you choose a software vendor, do you question how the company is financed? Should that be part of your evaluation?

    This article seems to be about the ethos of private equity. Legally they're nearly identical.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Private equity is commonly referring to "owned by a private equity fund" like Blackrock. It often involves extracting unhealthy amount of short term profit to make the numbers look better then sell the business so they can record a profit.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    ... and Gabe N owns more than 50% so it's not really the same as owned by Blackrock. It's still a founder owned and operated company.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yes. And it could end up being sold to an entity such as blackrock and still be "privately owned"

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Thats not true. Privately owned firms tend to be really bad because they don't have a feduciary duty to long term value. They suck everything dry. Private equity is the reason why daycare costs so much yet the daycare workers make minimum wage.

    I think we're probably not on the same wavelength. Privately owned doesn't mean bad, a one person owner operated plumbing business is not bad.

    Publicly traded corporations are also really bad because the goal is increase in share price at the cost of long term success often. If you can show profit or revenue growth at the cost of losing customers by cutting costs that's positive over there.

    Single person ownership of a company where the person cares about the company providing good value instead of making money is very different from maximising profit or resale value.

    So the dissonance I think mostly stems from the example of daycare that you made and your conclusion that private ownership is worse than publicly traded companies. If the daycare was publicly traded it would probably look the same since none of the owners really care about the staff. On the contrary an owner operated business often do care about staff and their development at the cost of their fiduciary duty.

    Private equity would gut a business for cash. Publicly traded would syphon away all customer value to increase the stock price. Owner operated business normally does neither since it's their baby.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Holy fucking shit Lemmy is becoming like Reddit. Can you guys learn to think please. This whole thing stated because I replied to this message

    As long as it remains privately owned, it should be OK. The day shares go public, god forbid, will be the beginning of the end.

    With something "that's not true because private equity is bad and that's still privately owned" and you all act like I said that all private ownership is identical to private equity.

    This is a very plausable thing that can happen to Steam. Doesn't Gabe not have kids?

    Like what the fuck?? Am I going insane? Am I dreaming?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Am I going insane?

    I'm not ruling it out ;⁠)

    Getting bought out by a private equity firm would be pretty dire for them as that never ends well, but that's not what I was talking about and I thought that was pretty clear, but you responded as though it was. 'Legally' they may be the same, but they're functionally very different, as the article I linked pointed out, but you chose to keep digging.

    Whatever. You're right. Have a cookie.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Gross oversimplification of Private vs Public. We are really taking about three kinds of ownership models, if arguing in good faith.

    1. The people that are invested in the company, usually the people that built it, are at the helm.

    2. The people that built it took a payout from Private Equity who now have ownership stake, and who now set the growth agenda.

    3. The compant is now public, and given to the irrational whims if the ENTIRE marketplace, while at the same time primarily being at the whims of the board and the largest few investor stakeholders.

    Steam has largely existed exclusively in the first category. So have most of the oldest businesses in the planet, which are often family-owned and maintained operations across generations.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Privately owned firms tend to be really bad because they don't have a feduciary duty to long term value.

    Neither do publicly traded companies. All they are required to do is make money for shareholders, and most of them push for short-term value

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Thats PE firms, not the same as private owned companies. THERE WAS only one istance of a hybrid of PE and private owned sitaution, SEARS.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago*

    Gamers have good reason to love Valve for Steam alone -- not even accounting for their amazing games. They really do have the best gamer-oriented platform, and seemingly they care about gamers. I think they've done a lot to advance gaming on linux as well which is much appreciated.

    But, at least the way I see it, they still extract rents from game devs to an almost feudal degree.

    "Sure -- come sell your grain game -- but you'll have to give me a third of your profit because I own the town square platform/servers."

    Side note: It's pretty funny that for a while Valve had Greek economist Yanis Varoufakis on staff to analyze spontaneously emerging markets for digital items on Steam -- and he went on to write about the phenomenon above in his recent book Technofeudalism.

    Edit: formatting

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Really? Has Valve abused their position to specifically further entrench their monopoly or other anti-consumer behavior?

    There was a time I would have agreed with that comparison but Google has sucked for a while.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It surprised me that only 10% had tried selling their games on GOG. I guess the thought of going DRM-free was scarier than the monopoly of Steam.

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  • [–] 74 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    from the overall pool, 75% of respondents were senior managers

    So... not developers, but businessmen.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I read this as senior managers at valve..

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    First line of the article seems fairly contradictory to that.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Wait now I'm even more confused

    Game distribution platform Rokky has just released the results of a study it conducted with 306 senior managers of PC game developers (all from the US or UK)

    There's nothing in this article that suggests that they polled more than just senior managers.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Maybe they tried to target only senior managers but were only 75% successful.

    Also, the conflict of interest is apparent in the first 4 words of your quote, which explains why they picked such a weird study population.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Game distribution platform Rokky has just released the results of a study it conducted with 306 senior managers of PC game developers (all from the US or UK)

    Unsurprising that they find this, since that's what their business is about.

    MAXIMIZE GLOBAL GAME SALES WITH ROKKY

    Expand sales of your PC game beyond Steam. Sell game keys to 200+ global storefronts simultaneously with Rokky. Enjoy revenue increases of up to 100%.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    Nailed it, this is an ad for their company, that's all the poll is, and of course it backs up the purpose of the company, almost like they set out from the beginning to create a poll with the results they wanted. Once they did that, they fired up their email (or hired a PR company) and spammed every news outlet they could to get them to cover. Steamdeckhq was dumb enough to take the bait, literally advertising this company for free, and OP continued that idiocy by posting here.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago

    Unless games become something we truly own, steam is going to stay dominant. It's more like a utility than a storefront. If you want to remove the dominance of steam you need to force a way to move libraries of games to other platforms.

    Steam also got their monopoly the honest way by simply being the most consumer friendly option.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago

    Turns out if you invest in making your platform not suck it ends up paying dividends. Figure it out dumbfucks.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Valve has a huge amount of good will to burn and the cynical side of me is waiting for the day they start.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    It's a monopoly that benefits the consumer.

    It could easily not be a monopoly if any other company was dedicated to making as good of a customer experience.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    Remember when Ubisoft came crawling back to Steam?

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    If only all monopolies were so user-positive.

    I suspect what's unique in valve's case is that they don't have investors and board members and other stakeholders to lead them toward short-term profit maximization.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I dread the day where GabeN is leaving valve

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    meh, IDK. it won't change the basic facts of the company, there will still be no stakeholders.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago*

    If only all monopolies were so user-positive.

    All monopolies come into being super user-positive: it's the moment they need to make money that shit hits the fan.

    Is: Google Chrome is an overly appreciate, open source, web browser... then they came to shut down ad blocker "we gotta got +80% web browser share, what are you gonna do about it?"

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    It's only a monopoly in that it's so much more popular than everything else that's come along, and the main reason for that is because it's better than competitors. Most others are just publisher stores, and almost all have functionality that users disagree with.

    In the OP article, the game distribution platform Rokky is also apparently a publisher store, having recently bought the rights to distribute Chinese games in the west.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago*

    I laugh when i see this shit.

    Imagine creating a platform which is so feature rich, and costs nothing for consumers to use, that other distributors want to legally force you to separate it from your store so they have a chance to sell the consumer the same game, for the same price (or more), but on "an equal playing field".

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  • [+] 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    it's just not worth the trouble even free

    for me, it all boils down to this. The best DRM is making garbage. I won't even sail the seas to find it, I just will never use it.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Epic has offered quite a few decent games for free but their forced client/launcher is such shit that its not even worth installing. I absolutely wouldn't be surprised if people pirate games even after they've gotten them free on epic just to not have to deal with that bullshit.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Haven't even bothered making an account on epic for the free games or what ever they are offering. I just don't care, steam is so much better. Got a few games in GoG too but I wish they did a little better in the Linux support side of things.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    I've been gaming on Linux for a year now and I have (and run) way more games from GOG than Steam.

    Historically I avoided Steam because of the whole "you don't own the games, you just license them at full price" nature of the "phone home" validation they have for most games, so I had a much larger collection in GOG than Steam to begin with since I would only get from Steam the really interesting games which I wouldn't find in GOG (plenty of games I simply did not buy because they were Steam only).

    That said, running GOG games in Linux is as least as simple as Steam games, thanks to me using Lutris which does all the heavy lifting of properly configuring Wine and VKDX to run my games and even integrates with GOG to directly download the installers: in practice I have about the same chance of success with click-and-play installing and running a game in Linux from the Steam Store via the Steam App as I do from GOG via Lutris.

    Then on top of that, because I'm a techie, I actually prefer Lutris + Wine because it's so much more open for configuration than Steam and to figure out yourself how to run games for which there are no pre-made configuration scripts, such as pirated ones - for example, for one of my Steam games I couldn't at all find a way to run the official version of the game in Linux via the Steam App, but I could get the pirated version of that game to run just fine via Lutris.

    I even have a default setting in Lutris which will run my games inside a Firejail sandbox with networking disabled plus a bunch of other security settings, something I can't do in Steam (were I can only do it for the entire Steam App, which won't function with disabled networking).

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Many of my favorite games don't have drm, and you can just copy the install folder and boom, you own a copy

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Yeah, but the store doesn't actually tell you which is which when you're looking to buy a new game, now does it?!

    Further, will that copy of an install folder work if you copy it into a new machine? Maybe, but probably not (it depends on things like how the game handles missing registry keys and/or the graphics card changing whilst there's already a shader cache for the previous graphics cards).

    When you're making a purchasing decision, if that factor is very important to you, Steam's possibility that maybe it can be done in an unofficial non-supported way, but you don't get told upfront if it does work, and you're not sure if it will work if you change machines, doesn't count as a real "I get to keep the game no matter what" feature - it's a hack, that sometimes works, usually doesn't.

    In GOG that feature is standard.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    You don't own gog games either. Not using drm doesn't grant ownership.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Two things:

    1. ..

    You're confusing ownership of the "copyright of a game" with ownership of the actual instance of a game.

    In jurisdictions were the Law is not just bought and paid for by industry lobbyists, you definitely own that copy you got when you downloaded the offline installer from GOG same as you would a game CD. What you don't own is the copyright of the game.

    Further, even in the jurisdictions were IP Law is thoroughly bought and thus has been subverted to serve media industry interests, you de facto own that copy you got when you downloaded the offline installer from GOG: because the way things are set up with GOG (meaning, no DRM), the copyright owner would have no recourse but to literally take you to court to take away that copy, which they won't because it's too expensive so not worth the cost - unlike with Steam they can't just switch off you access to it by toggling a flag in a database.

    Curiously, with Steam they can block you from accessing the copy of the game you bought even in the non-corrupt legal jurisdictions, because if they just block you from accessing it even if they legally can't, it's now up to you to take them to court to restore access to something you legally should have access to, and you won't do it because it's "too expensive so not worth the cost".

    1. ..

    Whilst the whole thing is a bit of a mess with multiple takes on multiple jurisdictions, the praxis side is the same everywhere: "Possession is 9/10 of the law" as the saying goes - so if you have it fully under your control (so, no "phone home" system that can lock you out from using it) THEY have to take you to Court and justify to the Judge why they should be allowed to take it away from you, whilst if it's not under your control and they just take your access to it away from you, YOU have to take them to Court and justify why they should have to restore you access.

    Even were you do not have legal ownership of a copy of a game, the way the GOG stuff is set up, once you've downloaded the offline installer you have de facto ownership which is pretty costly for them to overturn.

    Meanwhile, the way the Steam stuff is set up you do not have control over that instance of the game and they can just take it away from you, and then it's you who will have trouble overturning it even in jurisdictions were you're legally in the right.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    I feel like steam entered the market for online distribution pretty early. It initially started as a way for valve to update their own games and morphed into a digital distribution platform. They have had way more time to generate good will. My experiences have been very positive with steam, why would I leave a platform that works for me, to go to other companies that have already fucked me as a consumer prior to releasing digital storefronts? If the wagon ain't broke don't fix it.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    They're a functional monopoly in my case since I'm on Linux. GOG is the main competitor for my money.

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  • [–] [S] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Valve is "de facto" monopoly, bit the actual monopoly potential is in Microsoft hands. Microsoft is for PC gaming industry what Google is for the web browser one. Sure, there may be other cool web browsers, but it's Google that (through Android base) decide whic web browser will be delivered with the next billions of Android mobile device: some elderly people on smartphone don't even know what is a web browser ("oh, you mean when I Google? I don't know: I just Google").

    All future new PC will be sold with Microsoft Store and Xbox junk ware: Microsoft has been exceptionally shitty for not being the actual monopoly in the PC gaming industry. But that's a very feeble protection: break Valve business is just a mandatory "security update" away to happen. They can break Steam little by little (such as suggested by Tim Sweeney) or just a big blow by sheer monopolized manipulation (such as Google not allowing adblockers to chrome to feed their advertising business)

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Microsoft tried to flip the switch years ago to kill anything outside the Microsoft store. That's when steam released the original steam machines. Combined with general negative response to the messaging Microsoft has backed off, but they absolutely want to do it still.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    They never tried to kill anything outside the Microsoft store. That's just what Tim Sweeney and developers got fearful of and made a big fuss about (not saying it's not worth making a fuss about, but they never announced they would do it). Microsoft did introduce more limited versions of windows that had sideloading disabled by default, but these were low cost versions of windows generally aimed at children and grandparents / non tech people, not at their gamer user base.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    They absolutely were heading that direction with both windows and Xbox until the massive backlash from the public forced them to tone down their plans. It's still the same company that tried to kill used games on consoles, and they basically have with the creation of game pass. Valve built an escape hatch to Linux for gaming, which has forced them to be a bit nicer on the PC front, but that's not a sign of Microsoft being good.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Lol, they didn't try to kill used games on console, when they announced the Xbox One they also announced that you would be able to digitally sell and transfer your games licenses and share you digital library with friends.

    Gamers didn't hear that though, and then those plans got scrapped when they had to rework everything before launch.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    When you buy something digital, since it’s expensive, you want an assurance that the platform would honor your access for many years.

    Valve has the best chance of that.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago

    Technically, I'd say that GOG does, as you can just download and back up all the installers for the games. Wouldn't even matter if the company went bankrupt or even if the entire internet died completely. You could still install and play the games just fine.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What makes Steam so compelling for consumers is that it's more than just a digital storefront and launcher. They've expanded into so many different areas: Steam Input, Steam Remote Play, Steam Friends, Steam Workshop, Proton, Steam Marketplace, etc.

    There is so much they do that it's not really just a store anymore -- it's an all-in-one platform. Most competitors do not come close to equal in any of these features; they usually just have basic launchers and maybe decent friend systems.

    In my opinion, GOG is the best competitor yet because of their DRM-free installers and GOG Galaxy on windows which allowed you to have all your games in one place.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    How'd they get their polling pool? Sitting outside the Valve corporate office?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    In one sense yes they are a monopoly. But there are alternative game stores. However Valve has earned their cut of money by actually trying to make a platform that works for game developers, game players and themselves.

    Don't get me wrong, they have a high risk of turning bad and extorting the market they have captured. But the truth is that every equally or greater sized competitor (Microsoft, Ubisoft, EA, Epic) has already skipped to the extortion part of the cycle and Valve simply hasn't, and hasn't really expressed any intention to do that. Being a privately owned company, Valve is allowed to sit back, enjoy the money they do make and not have to constantly ask for more, and develop what the staff feel like making without strict deadlines.

    The smaller competitors are still great even if not as feature filled (GOG, itch) and you should support them too. So while I reject that Valve is the big bad, I also reject that Valve could never enshittify. My position is that Valve has earned a trust no one else has (even itch had to cave to Credit Card companies), and that trust is Valve's to break.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Is it a monopoly though. Monopolies are there to protect the consumer, not really the seller. A developer does not need to use steam at all. I really don't think steam can control the pricing like that. Like, if steam started to raise prices on people buying the games, then I feel like people would still jump ship. Places like gog and itch.io exist. There are plenty of game stores as well, Microsoft, Nintendo, ea.

    The problem developers have is they feel if they make a PC game, that they have to put it on steam and no other platform or they won't make money. But the developer still has choices and I feel like steam is pretty reasonable with their cut and the tools they offer developers. A developer can even sell their game on a different platform at the same time they sell it on steam. They can even sell steam keys on their own website if they wanted to.

    To call steam a monopoly is a bit of a stretch. People still have plenty of choices and steam isn't circle jerking their consumers.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Bullshit. There are many other PC games stores and launchers. Only reason they don't have lot of users is because they are just not very good. In my view, Valve is not actively trying to establish any monopoly, their competition is mostly incompetent, especially EGS. Of course, I understand that if devs want their games to succeed, they have to play by Valve's rules, but let's face it, that's where customers are. This is not by some trickery of Valve. It's because Valve happens to be very pro-consumer. So, I don't agree with the assertion that Steam is a monopoly.

    Epic games store could have been great and yet, Epic's disdain for gamers has caused it to fail. Now EGS is just a glorified Fortnite launcher for the most part.

    I am not saying that Steam or even Valve is perfect. They are not. They are just leagues better than their competition.

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  • I will also say is that major reason why Steam has an monopoly is that they have invested their resources to streamline the PC gaming experience and also make gaming on Linux better as well as Steam controller which also allows us to remap control layout.

    None the alternative does that and are just another DRM-Storefront. That's my major pet peeve with Steam alternative like Epic Games Launcher. Closest we have is GOG for to be able to download offline installer and most the games are DRM-free. Otherwise, I just would rather buy games on Steam as it just works for me.. 🤷

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Game distribution platform Rokky has just released the results of a study it conducted with 306 senior managers of PC game developers (all from the US or UK), and it makes for some interesting reading.

    This study has a chance of being reasonable, but this article is junk. No word on methodology. I'm sure(/s) that the 306 managers aren't skewed because they're known by a non-steam platform.

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  • The problem with this "anti-monopoly" rhetoric is that players want to play on the same platform as everyone else.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    news are suppose to have new information

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Steam is the reason I was able to get away from windows without having to give up a lot of games (and probably would need to do annoying troubleshooting for the ones that do work, since most of the compatibility issues I have seen were because the game tried to run natively instead of via proton).

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