The Trump administration will undoubtedly appeal, possibly all the way to the Supreme Court. But for now, millions of people across the country will not have to make hard choices about how to feed themselves and their families. Several states that had already declared emergencies to tackle the impending crisis will have at least some temporary relief.

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[–] 108 points 1 year ago (26 children)

They will appeal to the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court will sign in their favor, meanwhile they will not spend any money.

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  • [+] 15 points 1 year ago (25 children)
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (24 children)

    I don’t think I understand the question. A judge ordered Trump to do something. Trump does not have to do any of that, because he appealed. I’m not sure entirely how this process works… But I can guarantee you zero money will be spent on snap until the Supreme Court makes its decision. If the Supreme Court makes the decision that Trump has to support snap, Trump will still not support snap. No one is going to reach into the pocket of the government and pull out the money. It is just not going to happen. Every single thing that you see is just a puppet show.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Not arguing your conclusion, but to answer the question regarding the question

    Just appealing a ruling doesn't mean he doesn't have to follow the ruling. He still has to follow the ruling until a judge, any judge involved in the case, says that he doesn't have to follow the ruling as either a temporary stay of said ruling or a permanent judgement.

    So if he doesn't do as ordered (and I agree that he won't) he is 100% in violation of the law AND the judge's orders.

    But also he's immune to prosecution for official acts, so why should Trump give a shit about any of that?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    God bless Lemmy for actually keeping this comment up lol

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Haha, I’m pretty surprised Jordan Lund has not removed this. It’s possible that this comment got lost in the mix and did not receive a lot of reports. Or maybe they are just receiving so many reports that there is a backlog lol.

    But thanks for your support! 🥰

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    What does "following the ruling" even look like? Does Trump have to cut a check for it? Is there some bureaucrat who pushes some buttons on a computer? Who will make either of those things happen? The courts have no enforcement arm. Congress has no enforcement arm. We're relying on American humans to follow the rules and I have given up hope on that happening.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (16 children)

    The judge ordered the administration to report back by Sunday or Monday night with plans on how it would happen.

    Actually two different judges in different states ruled this same way with the same requirement.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    But… you know he has no intention of doing what a judge says, and there is nothing anyone can do—besides end trump’s life violently—to stop him.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Then Democrats need to be on top of the messaging and make sure that everyone knows who is directly responsible for their hunger.

    So I'm not super optimistic...

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    You keep saying that but I don’t see you doing anything. Stop trying to convince people to do something you don’t want to do yourself

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Why? Why should I stop doing anything? Sure, I don’t have the skills to accomplish that job – But there are many people who do and just need that extra push. I do my fair share of things within my competence, but confessing those things on the Internet is a dumb idea.

    What it comes down to is you don’t want him to be dead. You enjoy what’s going on. You want it to continue. You’re a fed simp.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    I don’t want to see you get someone stupid out in jail. Anyone who has the skills is not going to be listening to you. I have the skills and I think you’re stupid for saying that. I’m not going to do it because he’s not exactly thriving in life as it is. I’m pretty sure we can just wait it out.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    You don’t have the skills. You’re a fucking joke. American hero Tommy Crooks is a better shot than you will ever be.

    He is going to live until his 90s. Which is More than a decade. The amount of permanent damage he can do in that time has clearly not caught up to you yet.

    I think you just don’t care what’s happening. I think you think it’s a good thing. You probably feel the right kind of people are suffering.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I think you make a lot of assumptions. I used evidence to make that conclusion. You are shouting nonsense over nothing.

    The only thing you know about me is that I think you are you are being very foolish for trying to convince people here on lemmy to attack a political figure.

    Again, anyone you convince would not be the person to actually do it. They’d just get themselves arrested.

    Regardless of anyone politics what you are doing is foolish and only gets people hurt.

    So stop.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I disagree. What you are doing is foolish and stupid. You are trying to shut down any conversation of fighting the government. Sounds like you’re just a fed troll. That explains why you would argue against anything actually effective.

    Remind me again what “evidence” you have presented here?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    “trying to shut down any conversation of fighting the government.“

    Im shutting down exactly one kind of argument. Just your bad idea of trying to convince people to kill the president.

    Again it’s not even an issue of politics or my beliefs, it’s not even saying his death would be good or bad.

    I’m simply pointing out the obvious. Anyone who would be convinced by you here on lemmy saying they should do it… is the type of person to get immediately arrested and never even get within a mile of trump.

    Anyone with the skills already made up their mind. Either they are trying and you need to stop drawing attention to that, or they are like me and are pretty sure his mental and physical health will fail before a plan could reasonably take effect so why bother?

    That’s the facts of this. You’re being foolish.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Well… You are entitled to your opinion and I do not agree with pretty much every word that you said. Decision-making is fluid. Lots of people just aren’t angry enough yet. If I can help them get angrier, it’s only a win.

    Again… You are in favor of Donald Trump, and therefore there is no point in having this conversation. As you said before… You have the skills and you made your choice… And you chose Trump. I very very very much hope you get what’s coming to you

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    lol I’m very clearly a democrat. I’m on here all the time making fun of trump.

    You are just being foolish. The idea that everything that’s happened wouldn’t be enough to anger someone but you saying basically “go do it” would convince them? What kind of person exactly would you be convincing.

    You must be a trump supporter by your own logic. You aren’t out there killing him so by your own admission you must be for trump. Right? That’s how that works? You must be maga.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago

    No, I said I didn’t have the skills. Nice try though, but your own reading comprehension skills have failed you.

    You have said anyone who has the skills has already made their decision. You also claim that you have the skills to take down the president of the United States… Something that I am skeptical of, but for the sake of this conversation I will believe that you believe.

    Keep on putting your foot in your mouth. You’ll change your tune pretty soon when Martial law hits… although, I expect to see you behind a mask wearing an ICE shirt.

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  • [–] 50 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    The Trump administration will undoubtedly appeal, possibly all the way to the Supreme Court.

    That's gonna be a good look for them. /s

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  • [–] 65 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Doesn't matter how it looks. Cult members won't care, trump will ignore the order, people will starve.

    The cruelty is literally the whole point. This administration is evil.

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  • [+] 15 points 1 year ago* (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Nothing. They might throw some more peaceful protests. Woo.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)
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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    I bet some will care. And some is all you need. A few here and there from the things this administration does will make all the difference

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    This is an excellent point. Trump brought out 77.3 million votes for his coalition. Meanwhile, 75.0m voted Harris, and 3.0 million voted third party (mix of ideologies, not all would-be Harris votes). Add to that 90+ million non-voters, which probably has some fraction of the 6 or so million voters who voted for Biden in 2020 who didn't turn out for Harris. Convince 29k people in Wisconsin, 80k in Michigan, 120k in Pennsylvania, and like 45k in Nevada to turn out for Harris, and we're not having this conversation right now. We don't need all the cult to switch votes. Frankly, 1% swapping or 2% actually turning out is all we need. And people dooming about how set the Trumpers are seem to be working more to depress enthusiasm amongst Blue Team players than actually save democracy.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Okay so we get another squeaker election where the Democrats win. The Republicans will say that it was faked and wrong, spend the rest of the time complaining, and those 45k in Nevada and 120k in PA will flip back and we'll be right back to where we are, or probably worse.

    Why? Because that's what's happened every election of my goddamned life and it's never going to change, no matter how many people die of starvation because a wire transfer wasn't made.

    Apathetic bloody planet. I've no sympathy at all.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    We're already starting to see populist progressive candidates overtake DNC Democrats.

    Cynicism aside, if you don't see a path out of this: Pretend for a second that we can get enough people into congress to have a functioning congressional body.

    A properly led Congress has standing and capability required to sue the Executive branch and force it to follow the law across thousands of issues that are being created by it refusing the follow the law. The congress also has the capability to impeach and remove Supreme Court Justices, btw.

    In addition, the "Power of the Purse" is not just a Schoolhouse Rock meme. Democrats in congress are already cutting off all funding for the government by refusing to pass a CR. They can keep refusing to do that until a budget is passed that includes, at the very least, not removing even more of the social safety net in canceling healthcare insurance subsidies.

    This shutdown is already starting to turn public perception against the Republicans, rapidly. A huge amount of government workers, who are working without pay, are suddenly getting 'sick'. Airplanes can't fly if we don't have air traffic controllers, the mail can't move if we don't have postal workers and during the holidays not having air travel or mail is kind of a big deal.

    ICE and federal law enforcement are currently getting paid out of a fund that was appropriated specifically to pay them during a shutdown, but that fund is not infinite and eventually even ICE agents will stop receiving a paycheck. I'm sure some will work for the love of the game, but I don't think all of them will. It's also hard to keep arresting and deporting people if you can't buy gasoline, electricity, jet fuel or take off from commercial air ports. Money is kind of important for these operations and money has to get through Congress first.

    A President who has no workers to carry out his will is pretty powerless. He wants to invoke the Insurrection Act against the coming public backlash. I think he will find that there will be serious morale problems if he tries to deploy the US Military domestically. Everyone knows that this is illegal and they also know that the justification is bullshit. In the end, the enlisted of the US Military are just regular people who are working the best job that they could find. This won't be a great outcome, should it occur, but I know a lot of current and former enlisted service members and while some of them are partisan on topics that they find outrageous, they are patriots and understand that the seriousness of their role is more important than worry about trans people playing sports.

    This is why there is a huge battle to control Congress. Because as much as the Supreme Court immunized Trump against prosecution, they did not literally make him a King and in the US system of government Congress is not powerless despite being currently held impotent by sycophants.

    You better fucking vote.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Partly correct, but he doesn't have control because of his cult. A lot of people supported him who aren't part of it. A lot of those people are poor, and will be directly harmed from this. Before he argued (using government websites illegally sometimes) that Democrats caused this. You can't really do that when you appeal a court order that says it must be funded. It puts it squarely on Trump. The word just needs to get to these people that this is what's happening.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago
    [–] 36 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    At some point I expect the admin to admit they already spent the money. What will the courts do then?

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    That wouldn't do anything at all. The government simply spends money into existence. If the judge tells them to pay SNAP, then they magic the money into existence.

    The federal government cannot run out of money, it can only increase inflation.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    No that just opens opportunity for more delay by saying “the right thing”. At that point MAGAts can say they cant spend money Congress hasn’t allocated, and is blocked on the shutdown.

    In this case the executive does have a certain amount of money already allocated by Congress that they can spend to support critical government functions. Part of that was explicitly allocated to fund SNAP in case of a shutdown. But they’re also making choices like spending billions on ice and border patrol to terrorize dark skinned people and to suppress voting. Are those really critical government functions? Should they really be higher priority than keeping citizens from starving?

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  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Thats….not how any of this works.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    That is how fiat currency works.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Ok, who are the “them” and “they” in this scenario? And how do “they” relate to the Federal Reserve?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I mean it's someone's job to approve and allocate the funds month to month. I doubt they're getting payed right now, though...

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    So then it’s not “how fiat currency works”.

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    I'm sure at some point a judge ordered Hitler to stop killing Jews.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm not sure if that's true or not.

    Hitler essentially stripped out all Jewish sympathy from the german legal system almost as soon as he took power.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    There were several legal challenges, especially against the concentration camps. They were quite close to succeeding

    Trump's legal troubles are very similar, especially is regards to their shared attempts to overthrow the government (although Hitler lost and received a stern slap on the wrist)

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  • [–] [S] 37 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    Hitler literally got a law passed so that a judge couldn't block him from doing anything. So until Trump has his Reischtag fire and declares a state of emergency it's not really comparable.

    Enabling Act

    Passed shortly after Hitler became Chancellor, the Act effectively transferred significant legislative authority from the Reichstag (the German parliament) to Hitler and his cabinet, allowing them to enact laws without parliamentary consent. The Act also permitted amendments to the constitution and control over the national budget. Despite its ostensibly reassuring language regarding the roles of the president and parliament, the Enabling Act fundamentally undermined democratic governance in Germany.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    We already had the "official acts" SCOTUS ruling instead.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The ruling which states that SCOTUS itself is the final arbiter of what constitutes an "official act." So if (lol) there's ever a non-GOP president again, SCOTUS has the ability to take away Presidential Immunity whenever asked to rule on a relevant case. A neat trick that everyone seemed to forget during the Biden admin.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Bluntly, if I somehow became president, I would ignore the SCROTUS and remove most of its members. Then force reforms and expansions, then put the question to them: "Should select presidents have immunity for official acts?" If the new court doesn't fix the issue, then replace SCROTUS again, until they see bloody sense and become a proper SCOTUS. It is dumb and brutish, but the times might call for being a jackass. 😒

    The Constitution is a good idea, but we clearly have to update the systems it laid out - they assumed the branches would compete, and can't really account for modern realities like the size of the US and technology. Unfortunately, we will need lots of power to force corrections onto an elite establishment that relies on bad design.

    IMO, the 'mid' outcome of revolution is a strongman transitioning us from dictatorship back to full democracy. Hopefully we get the 'good' timeline, where democracy improves itself for the better without a bully's mindset. The 'bad' outcome is everything Thiel and friends want.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    To be fair, Congress has all but abdicated their responsibility to check the executive branch, and the courts have no enforcement mechanism. So it's not all that different, in effect.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Best we have is Civil Contempt. It's different than criminal contempt, which can be pardoned by the President and must be enforced throught the executive or the Marshalls service. A judge can appoint anyone to enforce civil contempt rulings, including someone who doesn't report to the federal executive.

    Lots of people's don't understand the difference between civil and criminal, and a automatically assume criminal is always stronger. But civil is a lot more flexible because civil and criminal have different goals and remedies.

    Criminal penalties are punishment for committing crimes. People think of murder and theft, but by far the most common criminal convictions are traffic violations. You get caught speeding and you have to pay a pre-defined penalty or take a driver's ed class or whatever. For the most part, criminal convictions can result in fines, imprisonment, or execution.

    Civil is different. Civil cases aren't seeking punishment - they're seeking relief. That is, in a Civil case, the Court can make you do something or stop doing that thing.

    For an easy example that I run into pretty often in municipal government, I'll highlight the difference between Civil and criminal cases for the same offense: building a fence past your property line into the public right-of-way.

    When I take someone to court in that case, I can go criminal or civil (or both).

    If I take them to criminal court, the judge can make them pay a fine. But the judge can't make them remove the fence. We can issue separate citations every day and have 14 charges on the docket each week, but that's it. There are some billionaires in some areas who actually build illegal fences and just pay the $500/day in fines because money isn't an object to them.

    But when I take them to civil court, the city isn't seeking punishment for what they've done - it's seeking relief. That is, instead of a fine, the judge can order that the fence be removed, and (and this is the big point) that if it ISN'T removed after the order the judge can appoint someone else to go on the property and forcefully remove it.

    We actually have a case in my city where we're have a court-appointed third-party private firm preparing to tear down a large part of house that cost 9 figures because the owner is refusing to carry out the judge's order regarding their illegal construction. The judge didn't want to put the city in charge because the impact on property tax revenue of tearing down such an expensive piece of property might convince the city to turn a blind eye.

    When an order isn't obeyed, a judge can appoint someone to carry out the ruling, and unlike in a federal criminal case which requires that the judge appoint the Marshall's Office, a civil ruling specifically doesn't have that restriction on the judge.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago

    Sorry, but that attitude is exactly why they keep gaining ground. That argument is propaganda that JD Vance and Adrian Vermule (the modern Carl Schmitt who is fucking obsessed with the OG Carl Schmitt) have been trying to promote for quite some time.

    First it was JD Vance claiming that judges don't have the authority to overrule a president's executive authority. It's not that JD Vance graduated from Yale without ever learning about checks and balances. It's that he went on TV, and used his position of authority to state a lie that this administration needs to be true. When judges kept overruling Trump and using the legal system to undo much of the shit that he did, it back peddled to well he's just going to take it to the supreme court anyway.

    While that's true, it's turned into the Trump administration being bogged down with hundreds of lawsuits. While the supreme court is corrupt as fuck, it takes time for them to actually hear cases and make a decision. So claiming that judges and congress don't still act as speed bumps to Trump's evil plans is frankly bullshit.

    If we can make it another year and prevent him from cancelling or rigging the elections, then we can take the house back and begin actually investigating some of this bullshit. This time next year the propaganda will be back to the standard: Your vote doesn't really count, or why bother voting because both sides are the same. Just ignore the fact that some people are willing to work very hard and dump millions into propaganda campaigns discouraging voting, and rigging the law to make sure voting is made as difficult as possible.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    So how is the judiciary expected to enforce this?

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago*

    Not sure, but it does give Republicans an additional roadblock in their propaganda campaign to blame Democrats.

    If people do start going hungry, the GOP might not like the reaction they get from some people in their own base.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    At the very least, maybe there will be a few people whose echo chambers ring with “it’s the dems fault”, who will hear this and finally start to think.

    Presidential elections hinge on one or two percent of voters do every little bit helps

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This is good, because people won't go hungry

    This is bad, because concessions and breadcrumbs like this will prevent people from overthrowing this tyrant

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Those shitheads haven't listened to any judges yet, they aren't starting now. SCrOTUS let the orange cancer be above the law.

    The only positive thing is that this will hurt MAGAts more. They'll get to experience what they voted for. Thankfully my blue state has already started shuffling funding toward feeding people here.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    So there's obviously a back and forth on the legal side, but presumably people are right now getting the funds when they go buy food, right? It says "will not have to make hard choices" but doesn't specifically say there's money for them right NOW.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Yeah, there’s no money. Appealing will stop the funding, and for some reason USDA said it takes “weeks” to get the SNAP debit cards reloaded. https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/5583746-when-will-snap-ebt-cards-be-reloaded-delays-still-possible-despite-judges-rulings/

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Except that the bureaucrats actually moving the money are still under Trump's control, and are perfectly capable of slow-walking the implementation of the judge's order, if not ignoring it entirely.

    The judge's order says that the money is supposed to go out. In the current atmosphere of unchecked corruption and tyranny, that is far from a guarantee that it actually will.

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  • The way this admin wields power reminds me of one of my favorite video game quotes.

    "It's not a cudgel you barbarian..." -Cortana

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