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[+] 179 points 1 year ago (22 children)
  • [–] 99 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    That is the reality.

    The problem isn't "vibe coding" (anyone who has ever managed early career staff will be able to attest that... the bar is REAL fucking low). The problem is a complete lack of testing or any sort of "investment" in caring if production breaks.

    A lot of it is general apathy induced by... gestures around. But it very much goes beyond just the obnoxious rise in brain drains over "vibe coding". Personally speaking, I am THIS fucking close to driving over to my company's head of IT's house and burning it down with him in it (For legal purposes, this is a joke) as that entire team continues to think "We'll just wait until people tell us what is broken" is at all fucking acceptable.

    But pretty much any SDLC is going to be built around code review. And code review is how you handle developers of different skill and sanity levels. Whether they are old hats who have been in the basement since before you were born, youngins who can't stop talking about Rust, or chatbots.

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  • [+] 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Shit code review is not code review. If you just rubber stamp everything or outsource it to someone who will, you aren't doing code review.

    Aside from that:

    LLM generated code is more likely to have subtle errors that a human would be very unlikely to make in otherwise mundane code.

    Citation requested

    My current least favorite thing is LLM generated unit tests that don’t actually test what they say they do.

    If I had a nickle for every single time I had to explain to someone that their unit test doesn't do anything or that they literally just copied the output and checked against it (and that they are dealing with floating points so that is actually really stupid)... I'd probably go buy some Five Guys for lunch.


    Its like saying that the problem is that you are using robots to assemble cybertrucks rather than people. The problem isn't who is super glueing sharp jagged metal together. The problem is that your product is fundamentally shite and should never have reached production in the first place. And you need to REALLY work through your design flows and so forth.

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  • [+] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Bad developers just do whatever. It doesn't matter if they wrote the code themselves or if a tool wrote it for them. They aren't going to be more or less detail oriented whether it is an LLM, a doxygen plugin, or their own fingers that made the code.

    Which is the problem when people make claims like that. It is nonsense and anyone who has ACTUALLY worked with early career staff can tell you... those kids aren't writing much better code than chatgpt and there is a reason so many of them have embraced it.

    But it also fundamentally changes the conversation. It stops being "We should heavily limit the use of generative AI in coding because it prevents people from developing the skills they need to evaluate code" and instead "We need generative AI to be better".

    It was the exact same thing with "AI can't draw hands". Everyone and their mother insisted on that. Most people never thought about why basically all cartoons are four fingered hands and so forth. So, when the "studio ghibli filter" was made? It took off like hotcakes because "Now AI can can do hands!" and there was no thought towards the actual implications of generative AI.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    The problem isn’t who is super glueing sharp jagged metal together.

    I know it's not related, curious about this part.

    I know it has an aluminum based frame which should inhibit it's use to haul heavy loads, but what else?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    I have seen at least 1 out of every 5 comments from coderabbitai that lead me down a rabbit hole looking to see if the suggestion is correct. It can waste so much time trying to validate their suggestions only to find out it’s complete BS.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Well, who’d ever think of testing that closing the app works. Some things you have to take for granted or you’ll never test anything meaningful.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    If you are a company the size of Microsoft, you have more than enough resources to test absolutely everything.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    You will never have resources to "test absolutely everything". It is ALWAYS about building out personas and deriving tests from those.

    What this tells us is that one of two things happened:

    1. This was not tested at all
    2. The testing harness resets the environment after every check (e.g. "does process close when killed") rather than involving a manual reset (i.e. "close and re-open task manager")

    The latter is a lot more common than you would think since it makes it much easier to automate these harnesses rather than having a human at a VM. But... this is what happens when you don't step through the entire workflow.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    Latest news is that Xbox Games Division had been required to aim for a 30% profit margin for the last several years.

    Thats why everything sucks and blew up.

    Thats a fucking insane baseline target.

    Line for next quarter profit must go up, therefore, cut costs.

    This is obvious self destructive in the long run, but that doesn't matter, what matters is C Suite's golden parachutes.

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Well, there may have been a period when MS was trying to improve product quality, and in that time, yes maybe they did have very comprehensive automated testing processes. But before that, up to the time of Windows 7 I guess, their quality was dog shit.

    In the early days, MS was an undisputed monopoly though, and not only did they not test thoroughly, they hardly even tried to fix bugs - the userbase had to take care of that too. Earlier versions of Windows had all sorts of workarounds and 3rd party tools to try and get things to work properly.

    I suspect that once they'd achieved their objective of improving quality, there just weren't the incentives there any more for middle management to allocate resources to things like comprehensive tests.

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  • [–] 118 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No problem! I can just kill the process in the...shit.

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  • [–] 74 points 1 year ago
    [–] 51 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    I don’t think I could go back to Windows 10 permanently to do any non-web based work. I couldn’t even touch Windows 11. It’s so disgusting compared to my KDE plasma desktop on OST.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    For what it’s worth Windows 10 is/was perfectly usable after setting it up properly. A bit of customization needed but nothing crazy. Honestly I liked the OS and its design, it felt very clean and utility oriented.

    I’ve set up a new Windows 11 install from scratch this past month and it has been a real pulling-teeth experience. It’s not completely unfixable (yet) but even the annoyances that are not sinister are perplexing. There’s a new context menu that has a cut down layout and takes a few milliseconds to load - I get the design decision to keep it short, and have a button for more options, but it lags - so I’m out. It’s just a little hidden config to automatically skip to the full (more cluttered but no lag) menu (which you could do by holding shift every single time). There’s a few dozen little annoyances like that. A few are bigger than others, like the need to drive Copilot out to the desert and double tap it in the head unceremoniously. They’ve put it in Paint. They’ve put it in fucking Notepad.

    That’s not even getting into how desperately they want every user signing away the rights to their bone marrow to the Microsoft Corporation. The computer I’ve set up is more or less where I want it to be, but I’m wary of things breaking with an update.

    I’m not big on quotes but I’ve been coming back to Ed Zitron’s words a lot lately:

    I will never forgive these people for what they’ve done to the computer.

    I find it funny how the tables turned. Used to be that Linux was the one that needed unintuitive setup and Windows was the one that just worked. I don’t think I’ve used a single Linux image that didn’t just drop me into a desktop environment no questions asked upon boot, and that’s a world away from the awful, awful new Windows experience. Unless Microsoft conspires to make the next decade of Linux hardware drivers absolutely abhorrent, I think this will have to be my last Windows machine. That or the entire executive suite of Microsoft’s OS division has an epiphany about not wanting to spend eternity in hell.

    For all the Just Use Linux people: I’ve got more machines running Linux in my house than Windows. I’ll get there, Microsoft is just doing everything they can to push everyone off their OS.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    What is OST? Sorry, I'm just interested because I'm getting tired of Arch but I still KDE plasma 6

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Cachy or Endeavor are a nice step back from Arch while keeping things familiar. For even more stability without sacrificing your ability to fiddle, there is always Fedora.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    +1 for Fedora. I've been using the same installation for 3 years. That's multiple dirty upgrades. The only reason I'll be most likely reinstalling is I got a new SSD and it's a nice opportunity to start fresh.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    KDE Plasma on Ubuntu is a dream!!!

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  • [–] 49 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Sorta related, i found a copilot pull request (merged) on an npm project repo and I was so disgusted I wanted to delete the dependency and do my own thing manually, but alas this was at work and my time on this earth is finite (for now)

    (I just wanted to share this)

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  • [+] 22 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Tbf this is why PRs and code reviews exist.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Agree, but if we are going towards the AI writes all code future that these AI companies want, then code review will become inneffective.

    If we stop writing code, we will lose that "edge" that helps us detect bad logic when reading a PR.

    The more code we have to review, the more mistakes we will make letting bad code through (I believe this is the case). It's less fatal when the code we review is written by smart humans because it's unlikely they code something as bad as an AI can produce.

    Anyways, I think using any AI agent to write bigish blobs of code is a mistake, but if you are gonna do it i hope you have multiple fresh pairs of eyes on each PR. Still will give me the ick seeing an AI PR get merged tho.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I was recently pulling my hair out because a recent update caused a bug in the Windows recovery media creator that prevented the Windows RE from recognizing USB input devices. The few weeks between the faulty update and the fix just happened to coincide with me needing to use it.

    WTF are they doing messing with something as basic as the Recovery Environment? And further, in a way that breaks its utility entirely?

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    And no regression tests that caught it

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  • [+] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    The version of windows 10 my Lenovo laptop can't see wifi. I don't like factory resetting that machine (actually I can't anymore since I wiped the recovery partition when I moved it to Linux) my framework laptop came with no OS so was immune to bad factory OS version problems

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago

    All week I've been sending these to my coworker, currently hip deep in AI propaganda, at the Microsoft Power Platform conference in Vegas.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    How the hell do you fuck up the task manager, an application that hasn't needed to be touched in decades? At best, you stick a new skin over it to match the aesthetic. The core functionality of the task manager should have remained untouched going back to... What, Windows 3.0?

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    When I used to be on Windows, I shifted to Process Explorer. It is developed by Microsoft only I guess as part of their Sysinternals suite. I think it retains an older style UI but is significantly more powerful (has/d virus total integration for one).

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    I really don't agree with this comment seeing how useful task manager has gotten over the years. It used to be pretty simple process explorer, but has evolved into almost a full fledged resource monitor. The only thing that feels like missing now is afterburner-like overlay in games.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    The only thing that feels like missing now is afterburner-like overlay in games.

    There are a thousand applications that provide such an overlay, one is already built into Windows, do you really need yet another?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    And fps... Frametimes... Recordable graphs... Power... Voltages... Amps... Task manager is a baby compared to serious monitoring apps. But the main purpose is not monitoring ig, it's fine as it is.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Never really needed that since I built my own rig, do maintenance and trust my build. Never had problems with temps, even during prolonged stresstesting

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago

    ...hail Hydra?

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    That's not vibe coding.. Its vibe testing..

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Using AI to generate code without fully understanding what the code is doing.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    They’re ruining LinkedIn and GitHub as well.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    Stares in disbelief

    Hugs htop

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Personal anecdote, but I've had Microsoft apps like Outlook and Teams crash on me on 4 different days this week while at work. Is anyone else getting similar instability issues?

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  • Teams crashes or fails to work for me at least a few times a week and has for months. Outlook glitches out daily. I legit started using the web access instead of actual Outlook because it constantly bugged out.

    Both Teams and Outlook are so ridiculously slow for what they do and the hardware they are running on.

    Meanwhile in Windows 11: 4 years after release and I still can't click on the clock on my secondary monitor to look at the calendar.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    my windows 10 stability has been horrendous the past month or so

    constant file explorer and office program crashes, random reboots and blue screens, lock ups. no consistent pattern to it that I can tell.

    also getting weird glitches in teams that I've never seen before that require a force close and restart to make it usable again

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Oh no, Windows 10 won't get updates from their vibe coding era!

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Last issue I had with Windows was that I couldn't update because my EFI partition was too small (the partition is created automatically on install). Why do I never get the funny ones?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago
    [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    why does the guy in the meme always looked stoned.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I didn't even think about if this is negatively impacting security updates. Might have to ditch 10 before the LTSC support ends in 2027.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I’ve never noticed this. Mostly because I basically never close Task Manager. Because programs hanging is common enough that it’s actually useful to have Task Manager open on a separate screen.

    On an unrelated note, I must set myself a reminder for tomorrow to give installing Linux another go…

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