How come Star Wars gets a fuck ton of shitty sequels but the first TRON film in 15 years is a flop? I was waiting for this film since I was a child.

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[–] 57 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

As someone who loves sci-fi films and the Tron aesthetic, and who generally enjoyed the two previous films, a sequel should have been an easy sell to me.

Unfortunately, the whole "Tron bikes" and "Tron jets" IRL was - to me - such a huge red flag I skipped opening weekend. It gave the feeling of big action set pieces in the real world where the least amount of creative work would be needed and I had no desire to watch the military or the rag tag group of heroes fight computer programs IRL.

My favorite part of Tron was going into a new world and seeing the digital landscape. I want the lore, I want the "computer program's are people and mechanics" vibe, I want the fantasy portion of the sci-fi. I do not need another boring ass marvel / Star wars movie with a Tron paint job.

We need an actual trilogy, an actual story with actual arcs, we need actual stakes. This movie convinced me from its trailer alone that it would say nothing, fail to surprise me, and play out in a safe and predictable fashion and do it in such away that it wouldn't even be fun. I'm all for repetitive dime store movies, but they have to be compelling, well paced, and self-aware. I doubt this movie was any of those.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    There are no writers left that can world build. They're all momentary hype linked by and-then storytelling.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I think it's more of a studio/money problem. There are tons of great, well-written movies no one hears about and lots of other creative media. But Americans have low IQs and terrible taste which can only be satisfied by shitty sequels that play on nostalgia and existing IP.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    There are plenty of good writers out there working on smaller stuff. The problem has always been they get stifled and overruled in every part of the process in these attempted large blockbusters because the suits 'know what works' best apparently.

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  • [–] 113 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I blame him not saying "It's Tronning time" in the movie.

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  • [–] 95 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Mostly yes.

    I might stream the soundtrack someday, but I'm just not going to pay to see Jared Leto sleepwalk through another performance...

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  • [–] [S] 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

    The film was actually pretty good. I get not liking Jared Leto but he isn't enough to ruin a film for me. Then again, I waited for a franchise revival since I was a kid and now that's dead and done.

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  • [–] 51 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    My best friend was looking forward to the movie, until I asked him if Leto being Ares would change his opinion. He was no longer interested from that moment.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Same with me. I somehow didn't register him in the teaser. As soon as the second trailer came out and I saw him, I concluded I won't even pirate this one.

    By the way, the NIN soundtrack is not good either. Quake's is much better.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    As a NIN fan, it pains me to say you're right. Having only heard it in the movie and not standalone, I'd say this was basically NIN's "paint by numbers" soundtrack. Worse, it actually detracted from some scenes (somewhat specifically, the tracks with vocals).

    Of the 19 soundtracks I have by Trent Reznor (& Atticus Ross), I'd probably place this somewhere in the vicinity of #15 (I'd need to give them all a proper listen first though; I don't really have a current ranking for them. Other than Quake probably being #1.)

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I think the bigger problem is that it's just moved away from what Tron is supposed to be about. Like the whole point of Tron is it happens in the computer world what is the point of bringing it into the real world. Then it's just a weird sci-fi movie with sort of but not really aliens invading, and the market is saturated with sci-fi films with alien invasions.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    That's just it. The money bros are spineless. Alien invasion movies have a track record of making money. Making Tron true the source material is a gamble insofar as there's no movie said money bros can point to and use as citation for projected revenue.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Having seen the movie, I think it’s actually a decent setup for the plot. The crux of the conflict is that programs can only exist in the real world for 29 minutes before dissolving, and the good mega corporation and bad mega corporation want the “permanence code.”

    This time limit adds tension to the real world scenes in a pretty compelling way, because the good guys only need to escape capture for that half hour before gaining some respite. This is reinforced by the moments of viewing the world through the programs’ eyes, which always include the countdown to how much longer they have. There were times I thought “oh they only have a couple minutes” without stretching my suspension of disbelief beyond what’s required to watch a movie where flesh and blood can be digitized by a laser.

    It also allows more interplay between the real and digital world that I felt was lacking in the older movies. Those ones call the digitized humans “users,” but it never feels like they are that different when they are in the console rather than at it. This movie has a lot of scenes that cut between the bad guy sitting at his desk typing in commands and the programs in the grid of his computer hearing them as orders and treating him with reverence appropriate to a machine. There’s a hacking scene where you see the programs from one server grid break through the literal firewalls and cut through antivirus programs that does a good job feeling like an abstraction of what is happening in the real world scenes.

    All that said, I went to this movie for the soundtrack and pretty visuals, and while the light bikes and such in the real world did look cool, they would have looked a lot cooler in the digital world. There’s one action scene that is, and it is the coolest part of the movie.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Disney pulls the plug on Tron after it bombs at the box office.

    Disney puts future Tron films on hold after Legacy disappoints.

    Disney cancels Tron Uprising after one season due to poor viewership.

    Disney cancels Tron 4 after Ares underperforms…

    I’m pretty sure the problem is Disney.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Or Tron itself. It's also named in every sentence of yours...

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's the same problem that every mid 80's zeitgeist based resurrected IP faces:

    The zeitgeist the movie is based on has been dead for at least 30 years.

    For Tron, personal computers aren't new anymore. The concept of a digital city is so much less exciting once you've lived with the internet for 20 years and heard mark Zuckerberg wank endlessly about the "metaverse."

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The concept of Tron,is a good one. And the first movie, while not perfect, is pretty good. Theres enough there, that Disney could have created its very own Star Wars franchise. Instead they bought Star Wars, and gave it the Tron treatment to make sure that died as well.

    The problem is very much Disney. With Marvel, they got the right creatives together to make mostly solid movies that people liked. Over the past 5 years, they have pissed all that away with being Disney things. And a few months ago, I read that they were looking for another ip to buy so they could bring the gen Z male audience back... Which is telling as fuck, when they have Marvel and Star Wars, but dont know how to make them appeal to the younger male audience so much that they need to buy another IP.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Instead they bought Star Wars, and gave it the Tron treatment to make sure that died as well.

    actually, disney's SW was going to be John Carter and they killed it in favor of SW.

    Which is telling as fuck, when they have Marvel and Star Wars, but dont know how to make them appeal to the younger male audience so much that they need to buy another IP.

    Well, disney never knew how to handle SW at any point. They had luck with The Mandalorian S01 and with Rogue One, and Rebels, but that's it… they are a girls/family company and that's it. Pixar was other thing but now they are Pixaren't after disney bought them.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    actually, disney’s SW was going to be John Carter and they killed it in favor of SW.

    They killed it when they took off the FROM MARS part!

    John Carter. Who the fuck is John Carter?!

    John Carter FROM MARS! Ooohhh, it's a sci-fi. I'm in!

    Good script, good acting, good source material, good director that was really into the source material, shit marketing.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The original Tron apparently actually made decent money (which is weird because everyone just assumed it bombed?)

    Legacy made $410m on a $170m budget.

    The problem is legitimately Disney and Leto...

    And also Legacy was in 2010 so what exactly is happening here? You can't turn this into some kind of decades-long franchise with a doofus like Leto as the star, it's a "well the last one was kind of fun" movie you can't have a sex pest cultist as your face while trying to rake in casual nostalgia cash.

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  • The original Tron was made on a $17 million budget and made $50 million at the box office in 1982. In 1980, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back was made on a budget of $30 million and earned $550 million.

    In 2010, Disney wanted their own Star Wars, so they tried making another Tron flick. Maybe they could make it stick. It made $410 million on a $170 million budget. Star Wars: Revenge Of The Sith had a $113 million budget and made $903 million.

    Disney has since bought and run Star Wars into the ground. Meanwhile Tron: Ares has been in production hell since 2017. And for the first time, a Tron movie is an outright failure.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I haven't seen it yet, but have heard the plot wasn't good either. So while he didn't help, many films have shown even having great actors can't rescue a bad movie. He's just the rotting cherry on top of the melted sundae.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    I saw it. Honestly it was just ok. Nothing to write home about. The soundtrack is pretty decent if you like NIN. Leto is robotic enough to pull off being a just awakened AI. The plot was so-so. I really, really liked Athena and if they do another Tron I hope she comes back but doubtful that will happen. There were some cool fight scenes and new tech. I wish more of the movie was set on the Grid instead of IRL.

    IMHO watch a telesync or wait until it's streaming.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    I 1000000000% didn't and won't go see this movie because of him.

    And after cancelling D+ and Hulu last month because they fucked up the Kimmel thing, it may be years before I see it, who knows!

    But, initially, when I saw Leto in the trailer that was a quick "nope" from me, dawg.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Creativity at disney is moribund and nothing can fix it without getting rid of the old dead growth. Get rid of iger and similar execs like kennedy. They degrade any project. They dont love the products they produce. I remember one time kennedy commenting on star wars that there wasn't enough source material. Her problem was she would have to pay for it and thinks the writers are not important. That kind of weak thinking is stagnating disney. It will continue until these fossils are gone.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Short answer: Yes.

    Longer answer: Yes, because they made it all about him, and not about any of the previous characters.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago*

    The Called it Tron for fucks sake and Tron isn't even in it. It's like making an Indiana Jones movie but you just have some random dude that also happens to be a professor/archeologist or Jaws without a shark. Did Disney just think "oh the world is called Tron" no, Tron is the main character, it's ABOUT Tron. Even Legacy the whole thing was that Tron was corrupted, Flynn was trying to SAVE Tron and then at the end we get the tease that Tron had turned back

    But no...the film makers decided "hey remember in Legacy when Sam and Quorra returned to the real world? yeah lets do a film about that but not include Tron...or fuck it lets also skip Sam and Quorra."

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    I'm not a big Leto fan. He's not the worst actor, but he's by no means great. But Gary Oldman couldn't have made this movie work. The problem isn't the acting, it's the script. The movie felt like it was designed and written by a marketing committee. Everything about it is formulaic and hollow.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    That's something that Disney regularly has a problem with. They used to find interesting, compelling stories that writers were excited to create.

    Now, most of their films are being pushed from the top to expand their known IPs or messaging. The story has become secondary to the product.

    Bob Iger said just a couple years back that they had a few flops with new ideas and we're going to focus on existing IPs and brands. He's leading Disney into a second direct to home video sequel era. Just like the one that nearly killed the company in the 80s.

    Disney is riding high on nostalgia and brand recognition but is quickly burning their capital of good will. The youngest generation isnt getting that same nostalgia that's going to turn them into Disney fans like the 90s kids had. We're 30 something's with a bit of disposable income, and Disney is bleeding us dry after making us their primary demographic. They no longer cater to families, and they no longer are looking to make new, young fans.

    It's honestly depressing to see how much that company has fallen. I got hired to work at Disneyland back in 2008 and spent 8 years of my life trying to bring happiness to the guests that came there. I agreed with and worked hard to bring their message to life. But in my time there, and since, I've seen a continual shift from taking care of their employees, making it a great place to work, and to make the best entertainment they can.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean, he’s also a sex pest. Maybe that’s why people didn’t want to see it.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I hate Jared leto. Still went to see it because I like every other aspect of the film.

    I was overall disappointed. Theres loads of good stuff in it. Like lots. One part I audibly went "oh wow that's cool" involuntarily. However, the dialogue absolutely ruined it. And the actor for the main female was somehow more wooden than leto.

    When usually, for me, Leto is the worst part of any movie he's in. This time he was fine in it.

    Also it ends on cliff hanger. I knew Disney were never going to continue it though like they never properly followed up on legacy. Disney are just too risk averse since to try hard enough to make something good. It's irritating because almost all of the pieces were there, even with leto.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I've seen exactly one thing Leto was in that I thought he was very good in. WeCrashed. He NAILS the whole head-up-his-ass narcissist grifting everyone role. Hmmm.....

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Now that you mention it he was pretty good as Paul Allen in American Psycho. A despicable white collar criminal who is overtly racist and abuses their secretaries, then ends up murdered by his coworker who is jealous of how good he is at being a piece of shit

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    I liked the previous movies but this just looked like another summer action blockbuster. I don’t see a lot of movies in theaters anymore, though.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    Yes. let's start with that.

    After that we can go and have a look at the people green lighting new movies these days.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    The original movie was a pretty solid OK. Now we're on a 4th retread of that, why should I care. Plus fuck Disney.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I mean, I loved the first film, and the second one was the second best daft punk music video (it's not close though) but who really cares? Why did anyone feel like we needed endless shit Tron sequels?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago
    [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Something Tron fans seem to forget, and Disney forgets it every so often, the first Tron was a significant failure as well. Yeah, flashy effects and a cool concept, but it wasn't as relevant to a wider crowd yet. And Legacy wasn't exactly a success in the box office either. Many forget that Tron appeals to a smaller crowd and isn't the blockbuster franchise it should be.

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  • Disney dont know how to market to boys. I was a kid when the OG Tron came out, and I loved it. But the marketing was non existent. There was very little in the way of pushing the movie into the hearts and minds of kids, the same way Star Wars, or heman, or transformers, or even fucking gobots had.

    In fact, when I say Tron for the first time it was part of a disney kids double bill. That other movie being Something Wicked This Way comes... Which was, to say they least, creepy as all fuck. These movies went together like peanut butter and a sloppy dogshit.

    Tron is a masterclass in how to fuck up a franchise.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    I went to the cinema to see the original and loved it. It blew my mind. It's iconic.

    Then I went to the cinema to watch Legacy and I really enjoyed it. It's not as good as the original but it still had great aesthetics and the music is brilliant.

    Then it was "oooh, they are making another one?!! Yes! I can't wait to...what? No, wait. Leto? Really? Oh well, maybe if I'm alive when the next one comes out I'll go see that instead"
    The guy, to me, is just plain unlikeable. He's ok in very small bit parts in films, but when he's the main character then I can't watch it. When I go to the cinema I want to be entertained for a few hours, not annoyed.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I actually enjoyed this movie. They needed to do marketing, but it came out and I only found out because I get emails from my local indie theater.

    Honestly, can they just sell or license Tron to someone who cares about the franchise?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I'm just now hearing about it, then again I didn't know there was a tron 2 or 3. I just knew the first one came out

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    So far in the Tron franchise, we have:

    • Tron
    • Tron 2.0 & Tron 2.0: Killer App (non-canon)
    • Tron: Uprising (really cool CGI cartoon)
    • Tron: Legacy (second movie)
    • Tron: Ares (this new movie)
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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    TIL we all hate Jared Leto now.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Disney didn’t know wtf to do with Tron. I thought Legacy was a great addition to the universe, but this time around it was nothing more than skipping to the end of the Marvel universe with the Boss Battle bent on world domination with flashy CGI characters. It added nothing. Plus a controversial actor like Leto might be an indication that nobody else wanted the gig for the budget or the poor writing. Couldn’t have possible chose a worse or more boring addition to the franchise. Ruined it, IMO, and I have been a Tron fan since forever.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Legacy was good and a fine launching pad for squeals. They should have used Tron: The Next Day as a starting point for any addition. It's not as well known, but The Next Day was a bonus added to the physical release of Legacy to pitch the next movie.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I caved and saw Ares last weekend. Tron legacy is one of my all time favorite movies so I’ve always been wanting another and would occasionally look up rumors about sequels. When the Ares trailer dropped I was super excited…until the end when it showed Leto. I had forgotten the rumors had mentioned he was involved.

    Still, I went and saw the movie. It’s by no means as good as legacy, I scored it a 6/10. Something that I’d rather not watch again, but also something that I felt wasn’t a complete waste of time. But I’m easy to entertain.

    What stood out to me while watching Ares was how well legacy holds up today compared to current special effects and CGI. Doesn’t really seem like much difference in that regard between the two movies. Of course, Daft Punk’s soundtrack is second to none, but I think NIN still did a good job.

    Guess I’ll just need to continue rewatching legacy whenever I feel the Tron itch, which I’m not complaining about.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    I mean, if a headline asks a yes or no question, the answer is always no.

    But at the same time, I mean Jared Leto is a bit of a weirdo, and he seems to only put out movies that tank.

    I've never actually seen a movie that he led that didn't tank.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Blade Runner 2049 did well didn't it?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Nope. Budget of $150-180mil, domestic total box office of $92 mil, worldwide $259 with a 4.5 week theatre average for showings. I really like the BR series, and Tron, but I was pretty bummed when I found out Leto was involved in both

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    That movie is carried hard by Ryan Gosling and Ana de Armas. Part of their marketing was obscuring other actors participation like Dave bautista and Sean Young. Leto didn't feature in most marketing material either. Some were a pleasant surprise, others were sort of a resigned acceptance. Wallace is also a weak performance from Leto, even though the character had more potential. Gary Oldman would've been a fine choice instead.

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