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[–] 181 points 1 year ago (35 children)

And replace them with… whom, exactly?

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  • [–] 166 points 1 year ago (25 children)

    Reagan fired the air traffic controllers without bothering to think that through, and aviation in the USA is still suffering the after-effects of that as the workers that were trained up to fill those gaps now all retire at the same time. I don't doubt the Republicans would make the same mistake twice, especially given that these ones are far stupider than Reagan's people.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I don't doubt the Republicans would make the same mistake twice,

    Well folks did elect Trump twice... so there is that.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I still don't believe that trump won against Harris. So imo they didn't vote for hin twice.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    I mean I think it was valid Trump was pretty consistent in his votes over all three elections. The Dems had a spike during Biden and a crash during Haris. The truth is the left just couldn't be bothered to keep him out a second time.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    'The left' liberals didn't vote for Harris. I mean the left didn't either, but the reason Harris lost was because of standard ol liberals choosing not to vote for brown George w bush.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    From what I saw, through the stuff on the internet, the White-supremacists were solidly Trump, the male-supremacists were solidly Trump, AND Trump used a voter-deregistration law, through some local Republicans, to remove Democrats from voting-rolls, in key swing-states.

    AND many Democrats refused to vote.

    When all 4 of those come together, then you have the real basis for the result that happened.

    sigh .. yet-again, journalism got disappeared off the internet, in order to prevent any accountability or leverage-causing-necessary-change..

    Neither DuckDuckGo nor Google can find the journalism I'd read about that voter-deregistration having already been used as a partisan weapon, with the obvious consequence that it can be used again to immense effect, in 2026 & 2028.

    Welcome to the for-profit-only "reality" we live-in..

    ( I'm going to be saving offline-copies of all such journalism, from now on, because of this bullshit.

    Without knowing history, it isn't possible to be competent to avoid re-enacting it!

    This ISN'T it, but it gives some similar information: https://newrepublic.com/article/199247/transcript-trump-lets-slip-dark-truth-plot-rig-midterms )

    _ /\ _

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    journalism got disappeared off the internet

    Not that it is journalism, but I've noticed comment sections have mostly disappeared, as well. Sure, papers can claim it costs money and they have to moderate, etc....but I found it very interesting, for example, that just before the 2024 election, The Denver Post decided to close its comment section for good.

    I've seen it in various smaller papers, too.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Interesting..

    I wonder what fraction of the motivation for that disappearing-of-comment-sections was done because of being fed-up with bots,

    vs what fraction of it was motivated by wanting no-diversity-of-perspective..?

    Thank you for this informing..

    _ /\ _

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 5 months ago

    I would imagine it was a bit of both? They went through several systems that managed comments over the years. I think they figured they could bend the knee in advance to donvict's second failed term and save money.

    DP kept cutting more and more. I'm sure trying moderate things and not come under scrutiny from the magameatheads who are the world's biggest babies and tattletales was starting to become a line item that was just too much for the corporate bean counters.

    I think DP's take was that you could still send in letters, LOL.

    These people don't really seem to understand the point of the 'net for most people - and that is that it is not meant to only be a broadcast medium, but also peer to peer.

    Sending in letters to be heavily edited and/or rejected outright? Hell, we had that for an extremely long time. I suspect DP's readership took a huge nosedive after they cut comments.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    And especially since the goal of our enemies is to make America devolve into chaos, and the collapse of the airline industry would go a long ways in accomplishing that objective.

    And their treasonous MAGA lackeys are happy to help.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (10 children)
  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (9 children)

    It's actually not the boomers who elected Reagan. It was their parents and the generation that immediately followed them. Boomers, that is the actual baby boom generation (born 1946 to 1955), voted overwhelmingly against Reagan.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Doesn't stop them from sucking his cadaverific cock nowadays though, frankly if they had come out swinging against him more aggressively there wouldn't have been nearly as many issues nowadays.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    I disagree.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers

    In 1980, it was kinda close, 45v44 (18-21yo) and 44v44 (22-29yo), but I wouldn't say they were "overwhelmingly against". By 1984 they seemed quite in favor of him. They had help, no doubt, but they were not largely against; marginally against at most.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_United_States_presidential_election

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_United_States_presidential_election

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is an incomplete picture. Because it's from exit polls it only accounts for those who actually voted. It doesn't take in to account at all those who abstained. And it doesn't list by generation just by 10-year increments. And generations don't fall into neat 10-year increments. At that point in time boomers were anywhere from 20 to 35.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    It doesn't take in to account at all those who abstained.

    Abstained? You mean helped Reagan win? How'd that strategy work out?

    And it doesn't list by generation just by 10-year increments.

    False. Behold, arithmetic!

    1980 election
    Age (DOB) Range
    18-21 (1962-1959) =3
    22-29 (1958-1951) =7
    30-44 (1950-1936) =14
    45-59 (1935-1921) =14
    60+ (1920-past)

    1984 election
    Age (DOB) Range
    18-24 (1966-1960) =6
    25-29 (1959-1955) =4
    30-49 (1954-1935) =19
    50-64 (1934-1920) =14
    65+ (1919-past)

    What they lack is a neat cutoff at 1945.

    And generations don't fall into neat 10-year increments.

    No one is doing that.

    Wikipedia:

    The generation is often defined as people born from 1946 to 1964 during the mid-20th-century baby boom that followed the end of World War II.

    More arithmetic! 1964-1946=18

    At that point in time boomers were anywhere from 20 to 35.

    1945-1960. Sure. Seems a breath away from a neat ten year increment, but sure.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    My parents were boomers and they (and all their boomer friends) fucking hated Ronnie Raygun. It definitely was not all boomers.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    The most-important 2 books on understanding US politics, is Woodard's "American Nations", on the 11 nations inhabiting North America, & how they are stable, once instantiated,

    & Thom Hartmann's "Screwed", on what real national-prosperity is ( I've only read the beginning of that, & it's the 1st-time I've understood what's wrong with normal "economics", as presented by everybody else ).

    IF one looks carefully, as Woodard did, one can see that the votes follow specific counties that are culturally-aligned, in these 11 nations.

    It isn't "all boomers", rather, it is in the Tidewater region, votes went this-way, in the New York region, votes went that way, in Yankeedom, they went this other way, etc..

    The book "The Big Sort" is on how polarization is self-creating the ultimate only-political-monocultures US of A.

    That, of course, is going to make the US's Civil War Part2 be .. more territorial in its ideological-basis, .. ( & that has implications, too ), but .. it's still down to regional-cultures defining/controlling the US's fate.

    Woodard's book is sooo important, that I wouldn't consider moving anywhere in North America without seeing which culture was ruling that county, now.

    _ /\ _

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago

    Thanks for the book recommends. I think I've heard Thom mention his book(s) before, including that one, when listening to his podcast, but I never heard of the other. Just tracked down the audiobook and started listening...

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Still cant take orders successfully at drive throughs, much less do one of the most dangerous, dynamic, and complicated jobs known to humanity.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    It's been proven to work for robo-fighters ( air-superiority fighters ), in simulations ( they had a competition between fighter-AI's, & 1 of them did win, & the fights were proper, the way human fighter-pilots would have done them ).

    Narrow-context AI works: it's the deep-vast context AI that doesn't work..

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  • [+] 115 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Reagan did it in 1981 and it didn't cause a collapse. 11000 air traffic controllers went on strike and Reagan fired all of them. This is arguably what started the decline of unions in the US.

    It was fucked up then, and it would be even more fucked up now, but in reality the industry would move on pretty quickly. Hopefully the people would rise up in response, but I'm not holding my breath.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The people "rose up" during BLM protests for over a year in the streets. Systematic change? Nope. Black people any safer now? Nope. All those protests did was hold exactly ONE fucking cop accountable. That's it. We're fucked and I hate saying that. Still going to do my part, but it's like the ship has been sinking since before I was even born...

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago*

    We aren't fucked until we're dead, my friend. Fight until the end. Never make it easy for them.

    Write on every inch of the toilet paper. They can't have that. It's ours.

    "It's small and it's fragile and it's the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it, or sell it, or give it away. We must never let them take it from us"

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  • [+] -14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I'm sure everyone would love that and would wholeheartedly support that decision. No blowback whatsoever.

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  • [–] 59 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If there's blowback, blame the people causing the problem (elected Republicans), not the workers impacted by it.

    Strikes and not showing up for unpaid work are meant to piss people off. People don't change shit when they're getting what they want already.

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  • [–] 78 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Threatened to be fired from unpaid, highly specialized and stressful work? Sounds like relief rather than a threat.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    They were just taking time off from being unpaid, but yeah, lets push them to quit permanently! Itll only take 2-3 years to replace every single one of them that quits. Who cares if planes crash and people die in the meantime? Im sure there will be plenty of people clamoring to become ATCs seeing how this plays out

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  • [–] 78 points 1 year ago

    Demanding slave labor by threatening to loose you from your master if you refuse to cooperate is a strange take.

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  • [–] 72 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    As of early 2025, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) reports that only about 10,800 certified air traffic controllers are actively working, while the industry needs around 14,600 to operate efficiently. Nearly 280 of the 300 air traffic control facilities are understaffed.

    This Duffy needs to recognize these people are to be prized not humiliated. What a total TrumpTurd.

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  • [+] 69 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 60 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah because the US is just swarming with qualified air traffic controllers hoping to get to work in their place if they're fired. /s 🙄

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  • [–] 59 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Hahahaha ok. Tell that to any employment lawyer.

    That is called alavery, or indentured servitude at best. Kinda frowned upon.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Reagan set the precedent in the '80s. ATCs can be summarily fired ever since Reagan broke their union

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Seriously, most people still have no idea how evil Reagan really was. He did a lot of damage to this country that led to the situation we are in now.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Reagan was just following the well trodden path that Jackson and Wilson blazed, and Nixon trimmed the edges.

    The only reason that I put Jackson into a tie with Wilson for worst president is that Wilson did far more long term damage, but Jackson orchestrated The Trail of Tears, and several other genocides, as well as paid off the national debt entirely. This helped contribute to the longest and deepest (by percentage, not dollar amount) depression the country has ever seen.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You do understand the current president has now easily taken the "worst" spot, though.

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  • [–] 53 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    They are desperately short workers, even in the best of times, so their response is to fire the few workers they have from one of the most notoriously stressful jobs on the planet?

    What is more likely to happen is that they will fire controllers loudly and publicly, lose every single lawsuit, be forced to rehire them, which they would have done anyway because they need them so badly, except they will also pay all back pay, also significant damages, an enormous fine, and if the employee is smart, they'll demand an enormous raise in pay to return.

    And the MAGA Nazis deserve it.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The party of fiscal responsibility and reduction of waste right there for ya.

    I hope it is here like it is and all those kids shows that I watch growing up, the bad guy always loses because of their idiocy and arrogance.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah, this is just gonna lead to less efficient air traffic control, more congestion, eventually fewer flights, higher expenses, and less people flying over cause they just can’t fucking afford it.

    Doesn’t really affect any of the ruling class because they have enough money to use private jets.

    When’s the last time any of these assholes actually sat in economy class seat?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    All members of the government should be prohibited from every taking a private flight, as well as flying first class. They should have to fly in a regular coach seat, and put up with whatever heckling they get, or drive.

    A private flight is a totally undisguised bribe. Accepting any transportation from anyone should result in mandatory prison time.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    There was a "Yes, Minister!" episode on this principle:

    The new minister was having a driver, driving him to wherever, so he could use the time as office-time, in the back..

    They shamed him into quitting that, & he became significantly less-effective, which was what the attack had intended.

    IF the people are being productive in the air, then I'd put them in a set of gov't-owned aircraft, secret-clearance all the way through, so they could do real work, while on the job.

    However, I'd also force them to use normal-airlines when going 'round for their vacations, so they get actual commercial-airline experience, so they know what they're representees are experiencing.

    Sometimes the right answer is to convert travel-time into work-time, & if you can't do that on a public flight, then yes, private-aircraft are the means, but it ought be gov't owned, not personally-owned or chartered.

    It must serve the country, not the privileged, see?

    _ /\ _

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Crippling our civil infrastructure, making the US a place no one wants to visit or trade with, cancelling all our alliances, crashing our economy, devaluing our dollar to the point thats its no longer the global reserve currency, shattering our military alliances, removing consumer food, environmental, employment protections and civil liberties.

    Whats left on Putins list. Ah right, a civil war based on ethnic tensions. And destroying our legacy military might in some sort of pointless war, hopefully against an ally. And perhaps a nuclear exchange that they arent a part of. And only 3 years and ~5 months left to get that all done.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Because firing the controllers worked so amazingly well when Regan did it...

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    And when Elon did it. It was only a few months ago when there were reports of one lonesome controller being in charge of enough air space that at least four were required. And after all of that they now aren't getting paid, with this fucktard saying if they decide not to turn up to unpaid work THEY'RE jeopardising all air traffic. No asshole, the GOP are the ones shutting it down.

    I'm not too familiar with the backwards labour laws in the US, but for a place that only worships the Almighty Dollar, surely you can't get fired for not performing unpaid work.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The whole situation that federal employees don't get paid money that has nothing to do with the budget fight in DC, because of the budget fight in DC, is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I get it that they can't fund new projects (so what about ICE?), but this is just stuff that's going to have to be paid anyway.

    Of the abundance of ridiculous nonsense rules in DC, this is by far the worst, and that bar was already very high.

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago

    Almost like it’s a bad idea to come out and mass threaten the livelihoods of employees you need. Weird.

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  • [–] 70 points 1 year ago

    Lol go ahead and fire them. That will definately help the shortage of controllers!

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Truly one of the highest stress, lowest appreciation, skill-based professions on the planet. What have we become?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I have to think anyone who can work ATC could be a hell of a project manager in any industry with just a bit of OTJ training. I don't know if hiring managers feel the same, but I'd be hopeful that they could easily find work elsewhere.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago

    Like other affected federal workers, controllers are worried about how they will pay their bills during the shutdown when they won’t get paychecks. Duffy and the union’s president have acknowledged the unfairness of their situation, which only adds more stress to their already stressful jobs.

    NATCA President Nick Daniels said controllers might have to take time off to work a second job just to make ends meet during the shutdown. But Duffy said that right now, he thinks the controllers who are missing work are “lashing out” in frustration.

    “It’s going to eventually be that when people don’t have money, they have time to start making life choices and life decisions. And it shouldn’t be waiting for air traffic controllers to break because of having to take out loans, credit card debt, paying bills, gas, groceries, mortgages. Those things aren’t going to stop,” Daniels said.

    So... What if they are actually sick...? I mean not getting paid and still having to show up let alone the stress of being a air traffic controller seems likely to make people prime candidates for low immune systems. Oh, but that's right sickness doesn't exist under RFK, right?

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Step 1: Fire ATC

    Step 2: Rubber stamp plane manufacturing safety checks

    Step 3: ATC messes up due to shortage

    Step 4: TCAS fails because it never got checked

    Step 5: 🛩💥✈️

    Step 6: Blame "ANTIFA Terrorist"

    Step 7: Martial Law

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Well, Portalnd won't fight back, we need step 7 somehow....

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    fight back? why fight when you can mock them daily?

    no real question, you realize they want violence, why give it to them?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    Any politician making decisions to not pay working citizens shall be expired

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    Rich guy logic

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