There isn't even an actual gun range; just an empty field people are known shoot guns at. And the outrage seems misplaced that the baseball diamond should be shutdown instead of shutting down dipshits firing guns in the field next to it.
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Who builds a gun range in a way that bullets can escape if shot from appropriate positions?

I am pretty sure this is the gun range and you're supposed to shoot in the direction of the blue arrow. That big mound of earth is where the targets would be and is supposed to catch stray bullets. Something tells me that redneck fuckery was involved.

Found it on Google maps, I think I was right.
It's frankly amazing that this very pertinent information you revealed after the briefest of Google searches isn't included in the "official" reporting.
JFC they were shooting uprange to make this happen
Either fuckery, or a ricochet. My first time shooting tracers was eye-opening to how much bullets bounce around. This guy shooting a 50-cal is hit in his earmuffs after the berm launches the round back at him.
To keep enough velocity and stay at a consistent height and ricochet in that direction seems much less likely than they were just shooting in the wrong direction.
I agree that fuckery is the most likely explanation in this case. However, ricochets do not need to remain at a constant height or velocity to hurt someone. A round bounced backward and arched just enough to clear the treeline would be enough. I'm kinda shocked an outdoor range would be allowed this close to those fields. Regardless of physical danger, imagine concentrating on playing ball while gunshots ring out in an adjacent lot!
Don't bother to comment out speculation if you haven't even bothered to read the article and watch the video. Like 30 bullets didn't ricochet 500+ yards away into a baseball field.
My point is not that heavy volume is required for this to happen, and it's strange how you could jump to that conclusion.
Instead, a higher rate of fire gives more opportunities to witness anomolies between shots, within a given time. Combine this with tracers, and now you can easily follow these paths, before and after each bullet hits it's initial target.
With a 6000 round-per-minute minigun, even if you only see one tracer bounce away every second, that demonstrates a 1% chance for every round to deflect and hit somewhere unintended.
Considering that the tracers are normally spaced out on a belt, with other rounds between them; the sample size can be reduced further, and this chance becomes multiple times higher.
When yearly machine-gun shoots were still hosted in Knob Creek, Kentucky, the range staffed people left and right of the firing line with fire extinguishers. After the 'finale' occurred and weapons were cleared, they would run out onto the hills beside the range.
With multiple miniguns firing alongside other automatics, and the insane number of rounds fired downrange, it was inevitable to have more than enough hot tracers land in the brush of these hills to start multiple small fires.
The possibility of ricochet injury is simply matter of probability. Sure, I would never claim this is the most probable explanation, but it's silly to claim there's absolutely no chance this could happen.
Cool write up. Ricochet bullets can't travel that far, and it's the wrong direction.
I've already posted a video of a complete trajectory reversal. Maybe you didn't watch it, but otherwise you're being stubbornly ignorant choosing to completely ignore video evidence. Also, a 1/2 mile really isn't far for something moving over 3000 ft/s. It's clear you're not speaking from an educated position on this topic.
There is no amount of Ricochet on this Earth that would result in this.
If you've seen tracer fire in real life, I doubt you would keep that position. The fact that a falling bullet traveling at terminal velocity is enough to kill or injure someone, combined with the fact that bullets travel for miles would instantly tell you otherwise. Watch tracers fired at night and you can see how frequent ricochets are when hitting a mix of rocks in dirt. The last video I shared already demonstrated that complete trajectory reversals are even possible, not that this is even required in this circumstance.
The baseball field is only about 1/2 mile from the range backstop (about 22% of a 5.56 bullet's maximum range). All it would take is a rock plowed up into an inopportune position on the berm to set off a freak accident. Now, as I've said in another comment, I absolutely don't believe this is the most likely explanation; however, to discount it as an impossibility is ignorant.
The range of a round when fired and the range of a round after it hits a rock and bounces are two incredibly vastly different things. Also nobody's talking about a bullet falling from the sky. Look at where that range is look at the angle from which they're firing and look at where the baseball field is. There is no possibility a Ricochet fired at that range could bounce back into that baseball field like they claim. It's not possible.
I think he made a good case for it being possible. That baseball field really isn't far away from a bullet's perspective. He mentioned his first time shooting tracers, which makes me think he has a lot of real life experience shooting FMJ bullets and seeing them ricochet. He posted videos showing ricochets, you can see them maintaining almost all of their momentum.
The issue isn't the distance, though I think it's further than you think, it's angle. You can see where the range is. You can see where the baseball field is. It's not possible. The JFK bullet couldn't do this. He made a good case for ricochets being a thing that happens, not in this case.
I'm still not seeing any issue. A bullet can ricochet in any direction. The first thing @AlDente@sh.itjust.works posted was a video example of a bullet ricocheting directly backwards (nearly straight up I think?), then ricocheting again off the ground and into the shooter's earmuff.
He showed enough examples and hard numbers for distance to convince me that this could be a freak accident. If you want to change my mind, you're going to have to provide counterexamples. I'm even convinced that it could happen with many bullets in a row if the shooting was consistent.
Counter examples to what? You're saying that someone shot down that range and it ricocheted directly back into the baseball field? Like what's the argument here? That's the problem I'm having you and the other guy, or your alt I'm not sure, haven't made any arguments about the feasibility of a Ricochet from that range going to that field. Which we know didn't happen by the way. That's not even in question. But even the possibility you haven't given any evidence for. You're arguing that ricochets can happen. Which is not the argument.
My example is basic geometry and basic physics. Learn how angles work dude I don't know. Learn that bullets can't turn 45° in midair. What are you arguing. Trace the line for me. Trace the line from down the range back around the dirt embankments and toward the field.
He said a ricochet was possible and put an argument together with video examples and distance numbers. You haven't done much except express disbelief, and that isn't very convincing.
You said a ricochet at the correct angle to land in the baseball field would be impossible, and you asked me to draw the trajectory.

Honest question, why is this so hard to imagine? He posted this video, can you watch it and tell me what you think? https://youtu.be/0ABGIJwiGBc
I think we all know this was probably just redneck shit, no argument there.
You did notice that wasn't a straight line you just drew right?
Also you're very obsessed with those videos he posted. I've seen them before they're not new videos. I've shot a 50 caliber before. I've had ricochets bounce back at me before. I'm not quite sure why he chose a 50 caliber for his example by the way it's an absurd example to use. The reason I don't talk about them much is because they're irrelevant. No one's arguing that ricochet's don't occur. Third time I've had to say that.
Okay and?
I'm not sure what this is in reference to. The curved line you drew? It undermines your entire argument. That's what.
The article says that the people who were shooting weren't on the shooting range property, so it was probably just some morons shooting guns in an unsafe location who and direction who can't be bothered to use the shooting range. Hopefully the range, were they to actually use it as intended, has proper berms and backstops to keep any rounds from going an unsafe direction.
Who builds a range, especially in Texas, without knowing that 99.999% of the people using it are going to be stupid and reckless because they think their firearms compensate for all their many inadequacies?
Never been to a range where the Range Safety Officer (RSO) wouldn't rip your fucking head off for the slightest fuckery, kick you out, ban you for life, first offense.
And fuck you very much BTW. I enjoy learning ballistics first hand, the mechanics are at the edge of what my brain can handle, refurbishing crap guns pushes my restoration limits and knowledge, and it's just plain fun.
Also, my dick is 7.5". Nothing to write home about, but I haven't felt inadequate about that in life.
And yet I have, and in an area much less comfortable with guns. I’m even mostly anti-gun: it’s fun to target shoot and I should know how to handle firearms safely, but not worth the harm that free use of guns cause. Moreover most claimed uses for guns are bs.
But yeah, gun ranges have walls/berms/embankments so for normal uses a bullet won’t escape. But there is no ceiling, no way for the range to keep people out of all place a bullet can reach, and I saw no visible rangemaster that could stop some yahoo from blasting in the air.
Hell, even in the indoor range we were endangered by some idiot pointing a loaded weapon sideways at fellow shooters and the rangemaster didn’t even notice until I brought it to his attention. There’s always a bigger idiot and every part of the way we handle guns in the us ignores that
People in a field shoot without reguard to what's in the direction of the bullets they are firing. Kids flee, a coach is shot and someone thought they should blame the baseball field builders lol. Mate if you fire a gun and there is any reasonable belief that bullet can strike something other than your target, you should be charged with shooting at that object.
To me that means attempting to kill that coach/kids.
If you fire a gun, you are 100% responsible for the bullet, full stop.
Especially if the bullet doesn't full stop into the target or a barrier behind it.
@LyD@lemmy.ca points out that the barrier had nothing to do with it.
What if you're at a paid indoor range and your bullet goes through the back stop wall because the range cheaped out?
That's not what happened here, though, is it.
If you’re moving the goalposts there, just move the lawsuit right over to the range.
The difference is whether the shooter paid sufficient care and those are clear opposites
Really? That's how you choose to debate? By inventing unrealistic scenarios that have likely never occured, or ever will occur? Wouldn't an indoor firing range have regulations and code requirements that would keep a bullet from going through a wall and hitting someone outside?
That's like wondering if the rule would apply if an alien spaceship fired a space laser, and deflected the bullet to hit someone, would the shooter still be responsible?
No, Skippy, in that case, probably not. You got me there, I guess you win the entire argument that ALL gun users are taught they they are 100% responsible for the path of their bullet.
Relax. Seems like a silly what if. Not a debate.
For real. I mean the universe rarely deals in absolutes. Ask a physicist if there's a chance if you can pass your hand straight through a table and technically, yes their is. Even though it's astronomically improbable.
I just mentioned a scenario I thought of from the top of my head where the shooter wouldn't be the one liable for what the bullet did. I could come up with more. It's just silly to claim "100% full stop" with just about anything.
I said 100% and I meant 100%.
It's literally the (tort) law. I don't think the armchair lawyers here understand anything
If you're defending\agreeing with Triumph, I don't think you understand tort law.
Literally just had a case in my Tort Law class about this very thing. I think you don't know anything at all.
I know in my scenario under tort, the gun range or someone further down in the construction of the range would be found liable, and not the shooter.
IANAL but isn't this issue of responsibility obviously determined based on the liability waiver that gun range attendees sign? I'd be pretty shocked if gun ranges don't include personal injury and wrongful death clauses in their liability waiver.
Tort law is all civil and liability stuff. Generally monetary compensation against a person or business at fault for things.
So if you were to pay money to use a business at a facility with a gun and ammunition they allow, and a bullet goes through the wall that the business has in place to stop your bullet, is that your fault, or the business' fault? Obviously it isn't your fault the bullet went through the thing you were supposed to be shooting at.
Also, no contracts or liability waivers can supercede negligence on the other parties fault. For instance, if you go to a rock climbing gym and sign a waiver of liability, but then their rope snaps and you break your leg, you'll still be able to sue and win easily if they weren't keeping rope safety inspection logs.
A question was asked. I answered it. Please indicate where I was "unwilling[] to reason".
..... The part where a shooter is always 100% responsible for the bullet.
That's because that's true.
In the case of a commercially operated gun range, a negligently designed back stop could put the liability on the owner/operator of the gun range or the contractor that installed the back stop rather than the shooter. Because, whose ass do we want raped here?
- A gun owner making good decisions such as seeking out safe places to shoot instead of "some woods somewhere"
- The asshole who installed a sheet of drywall and called it a "backstop" out of laziness and/or greed, and then literally any caliber of firearm, almost all BB guns and some particularly spicy paintball guns could punch right through it.
The crime there is saying "this is a safe place to shoot."
Lemmy is full of people with cult-like fanatical hatred of guns and/or cars. I feel like I could give this example: Imagine someone builds a parking garage out of substandard concrete above a Kindergarten. A law abiding driver, in an attempt to park their vehicle legally, parks his car in this garage. It then falls through the weak floor and crushes three children in the kindergarten below. Who's liable? On Lemmy, they'll blame the driver becaus--in their religion--buying a gallon of gasoline makes one guilty of all sins and crimes, and the actual negligence of the contractor that built the parking garage is absolved.
You anti-gun and anti-car people need to stop and ask yourselves, "Are we raping the right ass in this situation?"
You anti-gun and anti-car people ...
I'm carrying right now. If you pull the trigger, you are responsible for the bullet.
In the vast majority of cases, yeah. Only a Sith deals in absolutes, very few rules have no exceptions. A commercial shooting range with a negligently designed back stop gets to bear some or all of that liability in the case the backstop was presented to shooters as safe when it wasn't."
"Know your target, what is in front of, behind, below above and do the side of your target." Okay, at what point have you satisfied this rule?
Does every shooter personally inspect every backstop at every range every time? Or do you trust that the back stop is safe because it's a shooting range? Do you need to do non-destructive testing such as eddy current analysis or X-rays between every shot to make sure the backstop is still capable of stopping each round or is "It's a ten foot thick wall of dirt" good enough?
I can see a case where a negligent range owner convinces shooters their range is safe when it isn't, in which case I'd have to ask "Would a reasonable person going to shoot at that range be able to tell the range wasn't safe?" If the answer to that question is no, that the operator of the range made it look safe when it isn't, I'm not convicting the shooter, I'm convicting the range operator.
IN ANY CASE it doesn't seem that's what happened here, because the range in question seems to point in pretty much the opposite direction from the ball park. I can't see a scenario where he who pulled the trigger isn't guilty of something.
Not if you are a MAGA, where have you been? There are no consequences for MAGAs.
1oo% true. and yet… who would build a a base ball park right next to a gun range?! not saying they are at fault, but like …really? there must be something i don’t know, like was it an indoor range?
@LyD@lemmy.ca points out that the barrier had nothing to do with it.
The outdoor range points away from the baseball field.
i mean ok, i get it. but OOF. i see also that the shooting wasn’t even at the gun range. still seems like a weird place to constantly hear gun fire during your kids little league game
Americans continuing to blame the kids who are being shot at, or absolutely anyone who had anything to do with it EXCEPT the gun nuts, tick, I had that on my bingo card for this thread.
Sounds like they are getting charged
The Waller County Sheriff's Office said it was now pursuing dangerous conduct charges against three people suspected of firing off guns nearby.
“Dangerous conduct”. wtf, I hope that’s a felony, but it really sounds like slap in a wrist like crossing the street not in the crosswalk
Sometimes prosecutors who want to charge someone with multiple charges pick the easiest one to get an indictment on first. That lets them hold the guy / force him to post bail while they work on other charges.
But a Sheriff's Office spokesperson told Houston Public Media that the suspected shooters were actually not on that property during the incident.
The gunshots didn't come from the gun range at all.
Everybody born in the land of the free (TM) ©️* knows this is no place for a ball park, but instead it's perfect for a school yard.
*Conditions apply
In Texas. Of course.
They should just supply every Texan with bulletproof armour and helmets and make it mandatory that they should wear them at all times .... because there is a high likelihood that they might get shot either intentionally or accidentally.
Same people who build summer camps for children in a known active flood plain.
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