Radosław Sikorski upbraids Moscow for being “incapable of living in peace” with its neighbors following a series of incursions into NATO airspace.

Russia shouldn't complain at the United Nations if its missiles or aircraft are shot down after entering NATO airspace, Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski warned Moscow on Monday.

Sikorski was speaking at an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council in New York. The summit was convened after three Russian military jets entered Estonian airspace for 12 minutes on Sept. 19 before being repelled by Italian F-35s representing NATO.

"I have only one request to the Russian government: If another missile or aircraft enters our space without permission, deliberately or by mistake, and gets shot down and the wreckage falls on NATO territory, please don't come here to whine about it," Sikorski said. "You have been warned."

Not to be outdone, Sikorski sent a further barb Moscow's way in New York: "We know you don't care for international law, and you are incapable of living in peace with your neighbors. Your insane nationalism contains a lust for domination that will not cease until you realize that the age of empires is over and that your empire will not be rebuilt."

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[–] 72 points 1 year ago

That really goes without saying. Turkey shut down a Russian jet that was fucking around. That is the only way they will learn. They are jetting around like they are the baddest mother fuckers in the air while their equipment is pretty lame.

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  • [–] 69 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    The Russians claimed they have not been over NATO territory. If they come again, shoot them down and look where they land. Case closed.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Debris from plains that are shot down don't land directly below where they were shot down.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Sure, they land tens or hundreds of km from where they were shot down. Makes sense.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    This isn't WWIi, modern jets drop like stones. But the commentor seems to mean impact debris field. You explode something t doesn't all fly forward with the jet, it flies backwards too.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    And he is implying that incursions are tens of kilometers inside the territory, not a couple of meters. So if debris flies a couple of km backward, they still land in NATO territory

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This. And it is not really predictable where they go, depends on which parts get damaged and how

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    That may be true, but while parts and pieces of downed aircraft may land over a mile or two from an incident based on altitude (they are no longer flying, they are falling), most airspace incursions are not happening just over the border but further inside the defending territory. It takes time for responding fighter jets to scramble and confront the invasive aircraft. This is occurring while traveling at high speed. So the likely answer is that they are not a mile inside of the airspace, but tens of miles at least. It should be no trouble to discern over where the incursion took place.

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  • [–] 55 points 1 year ago

    Good for Poland. I'm tired of these Putinganda-fuckers "accidently" sending incursions into their neighbours' territories

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  • [–] 89 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Less talk and more action please.

    NATO member Turkey shot down a Russian jet some years ago, and the planet didn’t perish in a nuclear war, so we know we can do that.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago

    Fairly sure it will happen. Balts and Poland are fed up enough.

    Sikorsky is also known for not throwing words around.

    Just a reminder Turkey shot down the nazi jet after

    1. Issuing an official note to the fascists that they will shoot it down

    2. russkies entering their airspace multiple times before.

    3. warning the pilot multiple times before it entered their airspace.

    The decision to shoot it down did not come out of the blue.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If it's one thing the dicktasters... I mean dictators... of today do a lot of at a regular basis, it's whine. It's the mark of a little man. Pathetic.

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    [–] 30 points 1 year ago (33 children)

    I kinda expected ww3 would be started by China instead of russian idiocracy

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I assumed the USA would do something monumentally stupid.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is a given. The only question is where? Venezuela? Russia? Strait of Taiwan? West Philippines sea? Greenland? Iran? North Korea? California? There's really no telling where they'll take out their dick and start helicoptering it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I don't think China has that many nukes tbh.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't really want 600 nukes raining down on me, but it's mostly been a US vs Russia pissing contest.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    Why? China's not operating an expansionist military. Who would they even start it with?

    Russia's been feuding with its neighbors over it's western border for... centuries.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Well firstly Tibet would probably disagree, but perhaps Taiwan, the USA, anybody in the South China Sea, on the Indian border...

    China's rhetoric has been very clear for decades, further expansion is going to be pursued. Whether that's semi-peaceful like cracking down on Hong Kong, or direct invasion - it's a question of 'when', not 'if'.

    Hopefully no impending major conflicts could provide them a helpful smokescreen to make moves under, while potential adversaries are tied-up and unable to project power...

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  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Well firstly Tibet would probably disagree

    You can take that up with the Tang Dynasty. Tibet's been a part of China longer than Delaware has been a part of the United States.

    China’s rhetoric has been very clear for decades

    They've been screaming pacifism and globalism from the rooftops since Nixon visited.

    Whether that’s semi-peaceful like cracking down on Hong Kong, or direct invasion

    Hong Kong wasn't peaceful. The protests erupted with the killing of two municipal police officers. It was the Chinese J6.

    And I encourage you to find out why they were protesting. A Taiwanese national had fled to Hong Kong after murdering his pregnant girlfriend. Chinese authorities were extraditing the suspect back to Taiwan, when student protests began in opposition to the extradition process.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Tibet’s been a part of China longer than Delaware has been a part of the United States.

    They haven't been a part since their independence in 1913. You can take it up with the Qing Dynasty.

    They’ve been screaming pacifism and globalism from the rooftops since Nixon visited.

    They have also been screaming colonialism in Africa for a couple of decades.

    Hong Kong wasn’t peaceful.

    They said semi-peaceful in the quote.

    Also, Taiwan wasn't a part of China during that protest. So their extradition was illegal. What happened before does not matter. China had no say in the matter, yet invaded anyway.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago

    They said semi-peaceful in the quote.

    How semi-peaceful is a double homicide?

    Also, Taiwan wasn’t a part of China during that protest. So their extradition was illegal.

    Both the Taiwanese government and the Chinese government disagree. Hell, the US disagreed. They piled on with the killings nonetheless, because the protesters sucked up to Donald Trump.

    When Russian politicians do this, we call it manipulation. Strange that Hong Kong politicos don't get the same consideration.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Hard to say how things will go with Trump as president but Vietnam, Communist Vietnam, was well on their way to being Allies with the US over Chinese expansionist policy.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago*

    Pundits have been promising a Vietnamese alignment with the US since the 90s.

    We send our people over. The Vietnamese diplomatic core is always very polite and accommodating. A thousand excited Op-Eds burst from their eggs. Nothing happens.

    They've engaged with China (most notably over the BRI, where they trail their neighbors Laos and Cambodia substantially) in similar fashion.

    Trump's abrasive and obnoxious new cabinet hasn't improved anything. But the losses - in this instance - are heavily overstated.

    Pissing off Modi's India was a much bigger deal, by comparison.

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  • [+] -14 points 1 year ago (16 children)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (14 children)

    Defending west taiwans Rebellion against the rightful democratic government in taiwan i see

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    The fact that you think China is more imperialistic than Russia, US or Israel, is kinda wild.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (10 children)
  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I didn't say anything about Taiwan either.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    But about west taiwan. mocking that it supposedly always put down as the bad guy while the contrary is the case, which is what your mockery is about

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    All I mocked was western liberals constant need to demonize China. I didn't say shit about Taiwan

    I'm mocking your inability to see things around you and thinking China is worse than Russia, who has been more aggressive and imperialistic to almost all of its western neighbors but sure, CHINA is the one who would start ww3.

    Meanwhile Israel is attacking every neighbor around it and US is actively encouraging a genocide but sure CHINA is the one who would start a ww3.

    On top of all that, US is over hear illegally attacking South American vessels on international waters in addition everything else it's doing but sure CHINA is the one who would start a ww3.

    You see how braindead the China hate sounds?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Chines government hate is completely justified. Look what they did to hongkong. Fuck the Chinese government, as much as the Israeli, Russian, American, Iranian, British, German, French, Italian, Canadian. Etc you get the picture now? Every government does bad, some do some good too, but the totalitarian or supporting totalitarian government bit is shit, and they are all doing it, in some way shape or form

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Ok there champ, keep gargling dictator balls

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Keep chugging that CIA propaganda.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    What do you know about china and where did you learn it from?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    A lot of it came from speaking to Chinese people actually, and then various sources of media, and people's experiences there.

    There is also the perception that, on lemmy, to the defenders of China, there is zero criticism allowed, nothing is ever real, unless it comes from the Chinese government it seems, everything slightly critical is "western propaganda".Also, on this site, you say "American is shit" and everyone, except for the most extreme people say "yes". If you critize China, everyone except for the most extreme people say "yes". Gives off major "there is no war in ba sing se" vibes lol

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago

    Reddit Brain is never more apparent than on the subject of China. Not even Iran or North Korea get as much hate, and they at least have reactionary governments deserving of serious criticism.

    Westerners simply cannot accept that they reverse mortgaged away their industrial core and need to blame their largest trading partner for all their problems.

    In fairness, the same shit happened with Japan and Korea in the 80s. And with Latin America in the 60s and 70s. As soon as we start importing large volumes of consumer goods from your country, the national media tells us to hate you.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    I wonder how the vatniks will twist this into NATO being the bad guys again.

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  • [+] -25 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    NATO's only function has been to asset the US's military dominance in Europe.
    As a result, the EU is much less militarily prepared now than it was before because of over-reliance on the US... which has now turned its back on the EU.
    So yeah, NATO has always been the bad guys (and the same goes for Russia under Putin).

    Geopolitics is not black-and-white.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    So who are to good guys? Lmao

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    the good guys are people defending their country from military incursion

    in this particular case (or rather ukraine, poland, estonia), in every conceivable situation, russia are the bad guys and nato are absolutely the good guys

    has nato done some disagreeable shit in the past? sure! absolutely! there’s your grey: nato aren’t always the cut and dry good guys… but in this case… cut and dry: russia can fuck right off and nato is a force for good

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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Russia announced that they would invade if Ukraine moved to join NATO. Who should we blame, the state that set clear boundaries, or the state that was recklessly told to break the boundaries?

    Furthermore, according to a former international monitor from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), Ukraine is the party to blame for the breakdown of the previous agreement, not Russia.

    The "Russia bad" narrative only makes sense if you start the story on february 2022 and refuse to learn anything about the context leading up to the SMO.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You sound like you're defending the guy who said he hit his wife because she wouldn't listen.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Childishly inadequate comparison.

    There's a world of difference between domestic abuse, and allowing an hostile alliance to encircle your country.

    Furthermore, I recommend listening to the interview I linked above: Ukraine and Russia had a bilateral agreement together, that Ukraine broke. This is according to a french former monitor of the OSCE.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    You're only really opposed to an alliance hostile to you invading them if you plan to invade them and I don't really give a fuck about someones imperialist feelings at that point.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    I don’t really give a fuck about someones imperialist feelings at that point.

    Then why are you trying to defend NATO?

    You’re only really opposed to an alliance hostile to you invading them if you plan to invade them

    Do you understand the concept of encirclement?

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Vlad. Vlad. Don't be bad. Putin. Putin. Stop that shootin'.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    Fyi Vlad isn’t the diminutive of Vladimir. Vladimir is “shortened” to Vova or Volodya. Vlad is short for Vladislov.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    Well, makes at least as much sense as James being shortened to Jim

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    And Richard is obviously Dick

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Margaret as Peggy always blew my mind. Or Elizabeth as Buffy.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I thought that Vladimir got shortened to Dimi. Or is that pejorative?

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I have this sneaking suspicion that this response might be in the Russian "plan". I have a feeling that the goal is to show that America won't lift a finger to stop them, and thereby break NATO and badly damage US power. If Poland downs a Russian jet, and Trump says "Hey! You guys have to be nice to Russia" it will read as Russia calling NATO's bluff while maintaining just enough plausible deniability to likely avoid even European countries from pushing for a real response.

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  • [+] 50 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 46 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Nah, Poland is the one nation in Europe that's itching for a fight with Moscow. They've just been holding back.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    I am also sick of the inaction. I hope they are a real warning and not more words.

    I really like this line though and I will be repeating it to anyone who is listening, "incapable of living in peace".

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Well that's swell and all, but you can't say that not do it. You can't make that kind of bluff to a bully like Russia and not back it up. Cuz if you do back down that's just emboldening the bully. They will view it as weakness and an invitation to go further. If they don't shoot down the next plane that crosses their border Russia will escalate significantly.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Ruzzian incursions and aggression will not stop until Vladimir Pootang grows tall, and develops an adult penis. Never have leaders with small pee pees, folks. Oh, wait a minute America....not like THAT !

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    This is a weak response from NATO. 19 drones and 2 jets flying into NATO airspace should have been enough to draw NATO into the war. Saying "hey dont do that again or their will be bare min consequences" is a nothing statement. Shooting down Russian Jets that have been in your airspace for 12mins should have been the default response at this point.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago

    'How dare they not do what they are told? They ha dit coming."

    This is you rn. Sounds a lot like a wife beater.

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