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[–] 222 points 1 year ago (1 child)

One day, WiFi might even be usable as a method for making a reliable network connection

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  • [–] 131 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    Damn. “TikTok would like to access WiFi”

    We need new permissions for this shit. WiFi can do presence detection and now heart rate? What next? Eye tracking?

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  • [–] 68 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I'm pretty sure applications can only send and receive data, with the finer details being handled by the OS.

    But yes, there should be a specific permission to access biometric information.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Maybe not eye tracking, but probably head tracking.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Apps watch how we move/rotate devices to understand whether we’re walking, resting, lying down, etc., I assume? (The most popular apps I mean with large data teams)

    Wish that stuff could be turned off unless it was e.g. a game that made legitimate use of the accelerometer.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Android throttles the hell out of WiFi requests since (I think) Android 9. You need to manually allow WiFi request spamming in developer options to let apps do something like determining location from it.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    WiFi can also do pretty precise location. Bluetooth/BLE even more precise (inches or less)

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  • [+] -26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I think it can also detect our neural frequencies, aka 'read our minds'. That's why we see ads for things we thought about but never even searched for.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    https://www.neurology.columbia.edu/news/mind-reading-technology-can-turn-brain-scans-language

    We already live in a world with existing, functional mind-reading devices. There is even a device designed to help people that are suffering from ALS communicate by reading their thoughts, and has a privacy feature where the user can activate and deactivate the device by thinking a password in their mind, in order to allow them to still have private thoughts.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-brain-device-is-first-to-read-out-inner-speech/

    Phones are not fMRIs though.

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  • [–] 85 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Insurance companies...sorry you're denied for being a health risk....we can see from your home internet that you're an unhealthy person

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Remember kids, you can buy your own home fiber router! Don't live with someone else's equipment between you and the internet.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Care to explain what you mean? Are you saying you can run fiber in your house? Doesn't that still require some form of equipment from an ISP to actually go out to the internet?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    The fiber line into your house from the ISP is needed. What that fiber line connects to is up to you. The router your ISP provides isn't special. You can get your own equipment.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm not super familiar with fiber. There's no modem or anything needed? Don't they still track data usage? Are they able to do that without any intermediate equipment?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Fiber that runs into your house can work with any fiber-ready router. So, yes, it's a modem in a sense, but also does the router/wifi job as well.

    However, if you have Verizon or Huawei device on the end of your fiber line, your ISP can likely connect to that device, specifically for things like seeing if anyone is home. They don't need to do that, as it's only data for them to collect to work out advertising profiles.

    Once your data leaves your house and goes into their network, then it's just your data on their network. Yes, they can see the data being routed, unless you use a VPN. So your options are going from your ISP able to see when you're home, to not giving them access to anything and just paying the bill every month.

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  • [–] 79 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Wifi sognals can read my heart rate, and be used to track me around my house. But I still can't get a signal in my room one floor up from the router.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    This is the key point - these have to be clear signals in the same room.

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  • [–] 65 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Wow, all that with an esp32. No fancy hardware needed.

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  • [–] 113 points 1 year ago* (24 children)

    This tech scares the hell out of me.

    Great if we can make MRI quality imaging eventually available, but being able to monitor where people are in their homes remotely and their health status in our world is fucking dangerous.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Real question: how do you stop this?

    I don't use wifi at all in my home but I live in an apartment and all my neighbours obviously do.

    How in the hell do I stop this from getting into my home?

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    Turns out the tinfoil hat gang was right the whole time.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Innocuous radio signals are one thing but if my apartment is inundated with radio waves that can literally be used to track my movements and monitor my heartbeat, being forced to allow this is a perverse and sickening invasion of privacy.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yes, 20 people at a government agency are watching you watch Netflix and taking a shit.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    the problem is that you don't need 20 people for this kind of thing. you can just kinda passively slurp the data up from every router and throw it into a machine learning model to be used by cops or sold to advertisers. you don't need a human in the loop anywhere and it's essentially impossible to opt out of

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Your neighbors WIFI signals are too weak to matter in this case. Even if they were strong enough, this is a receiver-transmitter setup, so it would still be impossible to do unless you connect to their network. Even then, they’d have to assume you’re the only person present between the transmitter and the receiver.

    Presence detection through WIFI was already garbage enough, this one is plain unusable.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Good to know.

    The stuff I've read about recently tracking movements using wifi - would this need more powerful radio waves than most people use or no?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    You need more power than what regular people use. You would need the signal to go through walls into your home, and then read whatever comes back out through the same walls, so it’s a lot more attenuation than you typically expect.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Put the house in a faraday cage?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    With 6 ghz wifi you'd need a cage with a size of around 1mm irc.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Foil is cheap enough and a good isolator for plenty of things.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    So if you don't want someone to measure your heartbeat and to physically know where you are at all times your only option is to cover your entire living area, including the windows, in aluminum foil?

    I guess what I'm getting at here is that this situation is deeply, deeply fucked.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    In a world where private health care is the norm, yes. It’s scary.

    In a world where Public health care is the main provider of health it isn’t.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    It has nothing to do with that. This is about privacy and data security.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    If we think about the applications of the technology to the benefit of someone’s health I think it’s really cool.

    Needless to say it does pose a risk to our privacy and data security if used with an intention to monitor ones health without their consent.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    How much longer until I can be like "Hey, Google; scan the area for lifeforms?"

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    And I guarantee some organization will figure out how to use this for some police state bullshit.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That's already the original use case. Cardiac signature biometrics, can install in a doorway and do identity verification and track/monitor every individual that passes through the threshold

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    People do not have that distinct cardiac ECG profiles, and it would be wrong after one coffee.

    Holy shit the US state paranoia in the sub. Buy more guns.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    The article you cite states that accuracy drops to 60% if the enrollment and testing data were collected at different sessions. I imagine the effects of coffee or walking on heart rate would make that even worse.

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  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is really cool and will be useful. My second thought was oh great now my smart TV can see how excited I am watching their injected ads and how many people saw it too. One of the many reasons to never connect modern TVs to the Internet.

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  • [–] 56 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Inb4 the cops starts doing nonconsensual "polygraph tests" using wifi

    Those 5G Conspiracy Theorists probably feel vindicated after reading this lol

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago

    Capitalism asks whether you are the kind of person harvesting people's health info without concent or selling aluminum mesh underwear with fearmongering campaign. No other choices.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    2026: Major grocers found using customer heart rate to personalise prices - higher the pulse, higher the price

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I'm f'd my resting BPM is like 90.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    90 is damn near perfect for most adults. It's a little high for children, but even for most teens that would be right in the middle of "the green zone." My resting heart rate of 60 is way too low especially combined with my regular blood pressure of 100/50

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Hm I'm not sure I'd say it's perfect? I thought 70-80 was?

    My cardiologist said it isn't really "danger zone", but if it were like 100+ it might be concerning.

    I have had all the scans done, including a close look at my hearteries, and everything came back (surprisingly) clean.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I've heard of similar, but how exactly does this work? Does it say $0.99 on the shelf and the receipt winds up being $1.50?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I was referencing digital price labels that retailers are installing.

    This technology is being touted by the companies putting them in place to be a cost saving measure as staff no longer need to print new labels and manually replace them for products on the shelf. This is true in that it is a benefit of digital labelling, however there are many other usage options that could be implemented after installation.

    • alter prices around lunch hour for ready meals and snacks at retailers in walking distance to secondary schools
    • automatic increases for products being purchased more rapidly than historical averages to capitalize on a yet unknown trend
    • increases simply as stock begins running low

    Imagine in a few years when this technology is combined with network snooping of phone identification, loyalty rewards card purchase histories, and automatic buying of customer information from data brokers, all to create a profile that predicts when a person would be likely to be menstruating and the moment they walk in the store, the hygienic products they buy every month raise in price by 30%.

    It's a bleak future I'm afraid.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Good point. A US department store chain -- Kohl's -- has been using electronic shelf labels that change several times per day. Not sure how they handle the discrepancies. How do I prove the product was prices $1 when I picked it up if the label now says $2? Is it my responsibility to notice the register price was different?

    I more or less avoided Kohl's, so I'm not sure how that was handled.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The only solution for that which I see is taking photos of the labels for every product taken off the shelf, but that's quite the imposition obviously. Trouble is there are no laws guiding these practices, and the result is going to be quite the mess for customers to understand.

    In my opinion, the best purchasing experience for this type of shopping is using a handheld device with which you both scan the product as you take it off the shelf, and also process payment on your way to the exit. No cashier lines, and even better, no more unloading and repacking of your items just to purchase them. From the shelf into your bag, only back out again in your kitchen.

    On another note, it boggles my mind to see the square footage used by all these self checkout machines when these terminal systems exist. Sadly I've never used one in North America. This is an aspect of shopping that could make me loyal to a single vendor. I would actually install the vendor's phone app if they built in this functionality instead of having these terminals.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I would actually install the vendor’s phone app if they built in this functionality instead of having these terminals.
    I think you’re right, but I dread it. I avoid installing apps. The thought of installing even more tracking for multiple vendors annoys me.
    Although I am resistant, your point about bagging once is a true benefit.
    One downside, that system doesn’t seem to support cash.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I didn't give the privacy concern much thought in the moment, mainly thinking how useless and poorly designed those apps usually are, but I do agree.

    Considering it now, I do have loyalty cards in my company vehicle for certain things, primarily fuel, and those of course remain in that vehicle as they serve no other purpose. Perhaps keeping an old phone for purposes of doing this scanning thing might be ideal. Though ideally I'd imagine a few dedicated handheld terminals kept in store for redundancy purposes.

    Speaking of redundancy, you're right about paying in cash. Perhaps as easy as a 'cash' button and it would send the purchase total to a customer service desk. Around here, all grocers have a 'cashier' desk where you get lottery tickets and gift cards and such.

    Though it would be funny to see these handheld terminals have a compartment to accept notes and coins haha.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Perhaps keeping an old phone for purposes of doing this scanning thing might be ideal.
    That’s an excellent idea!

    all grocers have a ‘cashier’ desk where you get lottery tickets.
    Ha! Great observation. There’s no way in hell stores are going to give up on gambling cash. :-)

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    So how long before our phones can measure heart rate from your pocket, or being held in your hand?

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    They already can by putting your finger on the camera and lighting up your finger with the led light. Then it detects the rhythmic changes picked up by the camera... At least 10+ years ago. It was a good novelty feature, but turns out, for most healthy people, checking your heart rate gets old after a few runs.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    So the tricorder in Star Trek was just a fancy, battery powered wifi hotspot??

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    3 letter agencies have already been using this for cardiac signature identity verification and tracking for a long while

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Cool tech but I question it's usefulness. They focus on clinical in their language but anybody who's on telemetry orders needs waveforms not beats per minute. I care if they're suddenly in afib, not that they're a little tachy after getting up to go to the bathroom.

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    [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Oh, the person selling you medical or life insurance is gonna love this..

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