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[–] 113 points 1 year ago (13 children)

From what I heard from my brother, he lives in Barcelona, they are banning bnbs and short term rentals. In order to combat this problem.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    For more details: https://www.euronews.com/travel/2024/07/22/the-end-of-airbnb-in-barcelona-what-does-the-tourism-industry-have-to-say

    I live here (!barcelona@piefed.social), the mayor who announced the decision made it so that it would applied after the end of his tenure (that will end in 2027, the decision is supposed to happen in 2028)

    The other issue is that even besides tourism, Barcelona is a very attractive city for Spanish people due to the work opportunities, and there is definitely a lack of supply for the housing market. Getting back the Airbnb would help with the mass tourism (which is an issue of its own), but the housing crisis might still be there for a while.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    So it is the same as in the rest of Europe with a helping of mass tourism so similar to Amsterdam and Paris.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    It's a bit different, Amsterdam and Paris are touristic destinations, but not to the same level as Barcelona.

    By absolute numbers, Paris has obviously more visitors (22 millions vs 13 for Barcelona and 10 for Amsterdam), but Paris is much more populated than Barcelona.

    Also, the type of tourism is quite different. Amsterdam and Paris are more expensive, while Barcelona is still seen as a cheaper destination, which brings a different type of crowd. On the same topic, the average level of income of the people living in Barcelona is quite lower than people living in Paris or Amsterdam, making it even more difficult for people living in Barcelona to compete against either tourists or "digital nomads" coming here to work without paying taxes locally.

    Sources

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    No I get it is not the same but the problems are similar. Too many tourist in a city with too few houses and apartments that are now being used as bnbs.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Yes indeed. I think in Europe the worst is probably Lisbon, that has basically been overrun by foreigners, but that's a common phenomenon in all major cities.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I did know about Lisbon. I remember hearing the Swiss canton of Vaud had around 60% of it's population was foreigners. Which resulted in the local Swiss no longer being able to afford any form of housing anymore.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    that has basically been overrun by foreigners, greedy real estate investors

    There, FTFY

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Greedy real instate investors bought everything there because there was a demand from non Portuguese people with much higher salaries than the locals.

    You don't see that type of phenomenon in random towns in the Portuguese back country

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    They bought because there is demand, period. "They" are both foreign and domestic, as are their customers, so stop blaming foreigners.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I am myself a foreigner in Barcelona, and I'm well aware that me coming here pushes out local people out of the city.

    Not sure why you're so defensive about it, is it a widely documented phenomenon.

    Over the past decade, Lisbon has undergone a startling metamorphosis, shifting from one of Europe’s most affordable capitals to its most unaffordable. This dramatic change is evident in the skyrocketing house prices, which surged by 176% across the city between 2014 and 2024 and by over 200% in its historic central districts. Today, Lisbon leads Europe’s housing unaffordability rankings, a stark reflection of its home price-to-income ratio. This trend isn’t confined to the capital; nationally, Portugal has plummeted from 22nd out of 27 EU countries for housing unaffordability in 2015 to first place today. For a country where 60% of taxpayers earn less than €1,000 per month, securing a rental in Lisbon below that price is only feasible if one is willing to occupy 20 square metres or less.

    Simultaneously, both the hotel industry and the short-term rental sector received significant promotion, alongside initiatives designed to attract tourists, digital nomads, international students, and transient young professionals. The impact on Lisbon’s historic centre has been dramatic, with half of all homes now holding a short-term rental licence, a figure that escalates to 70 out of every 100 in the most tourist-saturated areas. Compared to the city’s population, Lisbon’s short-term rental density is six times higher than Barcelona’s and 3.5 times higher than London’s. Furthermore, the number of hotels in the city has tripled since 2010, rising from approximately 100 to 300, with plans for around 50 more already approved by the city council. This phenomenon is not unique to Lisbon, playing out across other European cities, particularly in Southern Europe, where residents are increasingly pushing back through protests.

    https://movingmarkets.org/lisbons-housing-crisis-a-capital-transformed-a-city-divided/

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Did you ask to pay more for rent or a house? Didn't think so. Did your landlord/seller raise prices 'cos The Market™ allows them to be greedy bastards? I'd bet so. Maybe a picture will help: replace "refugees" with wichever group you want to blame for rising prices.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I was ready to pay more as my salary is much higher than an average salary from a local company (and I know, my gf has a local salary).

    Remove the higher salaries from a place and rents will drop as nobody can afford higher rents. They did during covid, when a lot of people left Barcelona.

    And let's be honest, I came from a good work situation to another good work situation, my move has nothing to do with being a refugee.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    That's great for them. But I live in the capitalist nightmare that is the US. I'm one generation removed from being able to go back to Norway or Sweden. It's like being imprisoned in a hellscape at birth.

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  • [–] 221 points 1 year ago (27 children)

    They banned airbnb in victoria bc last year and rent here has actually went down. From this one single change.

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  • [–] 61 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Reducing rent prices was the plan and to be honest, the obvious outcome when demand goes down.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    You can also buy one of these tiny former airbnb studio condos for like 20k cad down if you are desperate. Good way to enter the market if that's all you can come up with. They are all sitting on the market and you can lowball.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Link to condo purchase place?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    Just go on realtor.ca and look for 0 bedroom 1 bath units

    20k down will get you into a <400k condo that will be like 2/3 the cost of what rent would be

    However I would be concerned it's a hard sell in 5 years when you want to upgrade. I know a lady who lives happily in 400sqft but I couldn't.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    I live in a small CA mountain town that was "the only town open" during COVID, and as such, Airbnb went apeshit. Well the market got oversaturated and now with people trying to offload these properties or rent them out to long term residents , and shocker, rents are coming down (along with home prices). We still have yoyos trying to get $4k/mo for a 2/1 piece of shit because I'm guessing they're upside down on their mortgage, but those properties have been sitting on the market for at least 6mos. I have zero empathy for the people that bought high and losing their asses because they wanted to make it rich at the expense of our local population.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I live in Florida and we had an influx of people. Mainly due to Florida not shutting down during Covid. I traveled to Puerto Rico during that time and they were shut down. Most of the Bahamas Islands were shutdown as well.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What happened is the province made short-term rentals only legal for primary residences and secondary suites.
    That sure helped some, but you can still find airbnb/vrbo listings in Victoria.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    Yeah it freed up entire apartments is what helped. I was able to BUY my own condo due to a slight correction in prices partly thanks to this policy

    I bet someone would have outbid me and made it into an airbnb if not for this policy

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    But the land lords told us Airbnb doesn't effect rental prices and actually let's people afford homes!

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Okay, but who. I want the name of a specific person or organisation and a link to where they said that. Because it's such a stupid statement that I'm not going to just take someone's word that someone was dumb enough to say it or thought people would be dumb enough to believe it.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It was all over the BC online forums when the province banned short term rentals outside primary residence.

    There were op eds, bad studies, lying companies etc. Here a few from quick internet search

    A crappy study trying to gaslight people. This was all over. https://www.biv.com/news/real-estate/airbnbs-dont-cause-residential-rent-increases-conference-board-8273746

    Air bnb makes the argument they aren't responsible https://www.airbnb.ca/e/closerlook

    Arguing it lowers costs https://news.ncsu.edu/2024/10/airbnb-and-housing-costs/

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Was there tourism in Victoria and what happened to it after the ban? I'm not clever enough to predict what exactly the consequences might be, but I was always interested in what could happen from banning all short-term rental (although maybe that's not the case?)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    It's our biggest tourism season in history this summer but that's thanks to Trump haha

    Don't think it's had much effect because we've always had hotel capacity for the demand

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Airbnb used to be great.. I could rent out a spare room and make a bit of cash. Then the developers, and the people who weren't responsible enough to be landlords had to make houses that were all AirBnb.

    Why don't these places vet Airbnbs instead of straight banning it. Owner occupied dwellings should get a pass.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I remember when it was about renting your place for a few days when you were traveling

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Do those rentals still exist?

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  • [–] 46 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    An important population we need to increase is ethical landlords.

    And by ethical, I mean former.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    The only good landlord is a former landlord.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (14 children)

    I have a pretty good landlord. This isn't an ACAB situation. The problem is the market, IMO, if not capitalism entirely; even if you got rid of landlords (made it illegal to have tenants), housing prices would still be too high to buy a house. Supply-side or demand-side economics are the only viable solution under capitalism.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    Yeah, and there will always be a demand for temporary housing. Even if every person has property, tourists need places to stay, you'd need a place to stay if your house is leveled by a natural disaster, it doesn't make sense to jump through all the hoops of property ownership if you just want to be closer to mom's nursing home in her final months, etc.

    The problem isn't filling that need, it's making a profit off it.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    under capitalism, almost nothing happens without a profit. If you're so sure the problem isn't capitalism, please explain to me how exactly you're imagining things should work.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I don't know how you got 'this person is pro-capitalism' from me saying 'profit is the problem'.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I said:

    The problem is the market, IMO, if not capitalism entirely

    but it seemed to me that you were disagreeing with my post when you said "the problem is making a profit off it." I could have misunderstood, and you were agreeing?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    ..no, that's just what I said is not the case. You must have misread?

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago*

    Weird way of asking for 5 stars, but ok. ^/s^

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Get rid of air bnb and similar. It's caused a ton of problems in Japan as well with people buying whole buildings and pricing out existing tenants. There are legal protections, but most tenants, particularly elderly, don't know about them and either pay new increased prices by the new landlord or move out. The government enacted laws requiring a minpaku (think lodging/hotel) license and putting maxes on time, but tons of people still run illegal ones.

    A lot of those people seem to be Chinese investors running them off of other sites which has furthered anger and xenophobia against all foreigners. One of the parties that skyrocketed in the most recent election wants to strip property rights from all foreigners and not just investment properties but ALL properties. It's a reaction to getting priced out and the government not doing shit about it. Granted, there are tons of other problems (prices rising weekly or monthly, wages not keeping up at all with inflation and rising prices, and overtourism more generally), but this is low-hanging fruit.

    As someone who just bought a house last year (on the market for over a year in the countryside with farmland for which I had to interview and get permits to buy and use), and volunteers in his community, this is terrifying to me. I had to go through tons of extra hoops just for being a foreigner to begin with and now, thanks to fuckhead illegal hotel owners and bad policy, now lots of people want to take the one little bit of stability I finally felt.

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  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    Funny how if you remove all landlords no one loses their home.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (17 children)

    People who can no longer afford their mortgages would disagree with you.

    Edit: I've absolutely no fucking idea why you all think I mean landlords here. You do realise normal people have mortgages right? And if you don't pay them, the bank take your house and make you homeless?

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    People who can no longer afford their mortgages because they suddenly can't leech of off working people can go fuck themselves.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    "There's a great place to go when you're broke: to work!"

    • big time landlord and big time conservative asshole (but I repeat myself) Dave Ramsey.

    Luckily all these rugged individual landlords already know exactly where their boot straps are! Right??

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Ban landlord culture and property prices drop.

    Kinda sucks for those already with a mortgage. Defending rental culture because someone might lose out now only guarantees that an ever increasing majority lose out in the future.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's not just landlords pushing it up.

    The constrained supply, the low interest rates, the greedy banks pushing bigger and bigger mortgages, government "help to buy" schemes which appear to be a way to help people buy homes, but in effect just pushes the price ever higher...

    The centralisation of jobs in certain areas. We have the internet. This could have practically solved the property crisis on it's own, along with overloaded transport systems and pollution, but rich people were losing too much money, so back to the office, plebs.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Constrained supply

    But there are empty properties now. There is supply. House prices are too high for all of the property to be affordable. That is because property as an appreciating investment is valuable. You can only live in one house, to buy multiple properties and have that appreciated investment, you are a landlord.

    Low interest rates

    allow you to buy a property. They allow people investing in housing to buy many. It results in the above.

    Banks pushing bigger mortgages

    Sure

    Help to buy

    Allows affordable housing to become an investment. See my first point.

    Rich people were losing to much money

    Yep, some of those people were landlords who were finding city prices dropping.

    Clearly landlord culture isn't the "only" problem. But fuck me it's a big part of the issue.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    what mortgages? shelter must be a right. people shouldn't be allowed to own other people's homes. everyone should be provided with housing by paying taxes or being covered by social aid systems.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    So? Then they shouldn't have gotten real estate to begin with if they can't afford a house. A person who relies on renting property to make a living are leaches living off the working class.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Spain is cracking down on this according to a local when I was there recently.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I know at least one city in France taking measures to severely limit Airbnb, because it's becoming a ghost town and people who actually work there can't find anywhere to live. The housing situation in the area is terrible.

    Good for them. I already can't stand "professional" landlords that get into the business of shitting over places people need to live to maximise profit. Those who are taking over those spaces to turn them into fake hotels without the constraints are the lowest of that scum.

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    [–] 6 points 1 year ago*

    Not sure if anyone who lives here hasn't seen it yet, but !barcelona@piefed.social is a thing.

    Copy pasted from another comment, the mayor who announced the decision made it so that it would applied after the end of his tenure (that will end in 2027, the decision is supposed to happen in 2028)

    The other issue is that even besides tourism, Barcelona is a very attractive city for Spanish people due to the work opportunities, and there is definitely a lack of supply for the housing market. Getting back the Airbnb would help with the mass tourism (which is an issue of its own), but the housing crisis might still be there for a while.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I think it can be generally said that the US and their success stories are a force for the bad in the world.

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