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[–] 226 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Wait, what the hell?

I can't believe this, who the hell are they to decide what I should install?

They are welcome to curate their own store, but sideloading concerns only the user.

Hopefully, the EU and other jurisdictions block this.

Fucking corrupt American oligarchs.

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  • [–] 53 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    Hopefully, the EU and other jurisdictions block this.

    This is very similar to the notarization process Apple introduced to comply with the EU requirement of allowing third-party stores, and yet the EU doesn't seem concerned (maybe because Apple did not allow third-party stores in the first place, will it be different for Google?)

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  • [–] 50 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Not an Apple user, so I didn't know about this. Extremely disappointing.

    It really does seem avoiding any and all American services/products (to the extent possible, with exceptions where reasonable) is the only way forward.

    I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the US is a ethical, cultural and even economic dead end. Yes even economic, only a fool would believe intense corruption and broad support of criminality and corruption among the population will not have any negative effects in the future.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You think this wouldn't happen elsewhere?

    It's not just an American thing, it's an asshoke thing, and those people are everywhere, and will always find a way.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Of course it can happen elsewhere.

    Just US has a massive influence on tech platforms, and they are currently under-going an oligarch takeover (oligarch influence was already bad irrespective of whether the far right or centre right was in power).

    Mind you I am not anti-American. I have largely always defended the US as a matter of pragmatism (it is the largest and most influential democracy-leaning country with a measure of respect for human right). US has done really bad things, but they have done good things as well. I can't say the same about say China or Russia.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yes the largest economy in the world is an economic dead end. Do you know why so many countries are sucking off Trump? They want access to American dollars. And no diversification doesn't work because what do you replace America with, there isn't some untapped multi trillion dollar economy just sitting there. It sucks and I don't get why the world let it happen but it is where we are and it we'll hurt to change it and nobody seems like they want to do the work.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I clarified what I meant by economic dead end. It's not going to happen tomorrow or even in ten years. But absolute corruption, rollback of democracy and a population where a large number of people support crime and corruption will have a caustic effect in the long term. It's a straw man to suggest that I was claiming an immense collapse in American economic might.

    At one point the "sun never set on the British empire" and now the British empire is no more. There are also examples of economies that were once top end, but are now closer to middle income.

    I don't think you understand the extent to which American "soft power" is being eroded right now. What countries have you lived in? What languages other than English do you speak? Do you have close friends in other countries?

    Of course America is major economy, that doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't exist. Just look at the state of Chinese products in the early 2000s and where they are now.

    People don't like thugs and liars, especially ones who are constantly parroting polemics about "freedom for this and that" while engaging in criminality and opposing democracy.

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  • [–] 165 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Google says it's no different than checking IDs at the airport

    What, and Google is now the TSA? Fuck that shit. I've paid for my device, I get to do whatever the hell I want with it!

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Okay, let’s check ids wherever you leave the house, since that’s the sane as checking them at the airport.

    Papers please, right?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I'd argue those aren't the same. ID is checked at the airport for legal entry into another country and the security is on both sides. A lot of countries don't require people to carry or present ID while walking around in their own country short of a crime having been committed.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    google is pretty aggressively trying to datamine people for a while, Reddit is thier playgound.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    I can't say anything for the Reddit part of what you said but I agree with Google's unethical datamining. It's no secret what Google has been doing. I remember when the tinfoil-hat-wearers were warning people about those nifty little Google speakers people were generously inviting into their homes, telling them to watch what they were saying in the general vicinity of the speakers, that Google could be using them to listen to every conversation. The naysayers said "They wouldn't do that, that'd be illegal. The speaker only listens when I say 'Hey Google' and they wouldn't be saving what I say anyway!". Lo and behold, it finally got leaked that was wrong, that the speakers were listening 24/7 and Google was keeping everything. I could be wrong but I recall something going around that Google even admitted they were keeping the recordings. Suddenly the conversation died down, there was no lawsuit for espionage or any such thing and the naysayers suddenly converted to "I've got nothing to hide, I don't care if I'm being recorded". Ignorance remains forever blissful, it would seem.

    Quick note for the pedantic: No, it's not just Google. Amazon, Apple and Microsoft are doing it too. If there's a microphone in your house, be mindful of what you're saying around it; you never know how an innocuous conversation might be used against you.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I've paid for my device, I get to do whatever the hell I want with it!

    You bought a phone but is leasing the software. It's not yours to do with as you please.

    Have you considered using fully open source android versions?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The few options that exist (along with their negatives) can't be installed on my phone. N20U is still pretty much locked down.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Then do what I do when buying your next phone, find a custom ROM you like, check their "comparability" page, find devices that are fully compatible, preferably officially supported (community build usually work fine as well) and use that as a shopping list when browsing for phones.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Open source Android is a thing??? TIL that might be my solution to this long term since I sideload apps regularly.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Search for your device name and "custom ROM" to see what's out there. Some are completely Google free, others retain different levels of Google play support, including downloading existing purchases.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    No custom ROM on a recent smartphone technically gives you a fully open source Android system when they rely on vendor-provided proprietary blobs in order for basic hardware functionality to work at all. Unless you want to go without a modem, GPS, and likely more depending on your model, at which point it's functionally no longer a smartphone.

    Open-source custom ROMs are at least far more open-source than the alternative in most of the ways that matter most, including the ability to change the code in order to remove app installation restrictions, to avoid Google's telemetry, etc.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Would the proprietary blobs in the baseband hardware stop the end user from installing software, which is the topic of concern?

    If no, is this a irrelevant "achtually"-reply?

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  • [–] 141 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    For your security we're going to block your access to FOSS and apps that let you avoid our ads. This is totally not a business decision. Pinky swear.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago*

    and avoid our datamining capabilities, and the intrusive AI we keep pushing on unwanted customers. we knew thier android core app(spyware) was the first step. they probably want that to permanantly installed into everyones phone.

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  • [–] 136 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Google says it's no different than checking IDs at the airport.

    You're not a fucking airport, Google!

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  • [–] 87 points 1 year ago
    [–] 71 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The current trends and direction of tech is making me want to become Amish...

    I'm getting so fucking sick of everything turning into shit, what's even the point of fucking point anymore? This is borderline kernel level enshitification

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  • [–] 70 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    I first read the original report from Android Authority thinking it would only be an additional hurdle for third-party stores and developers, but I'm now thinking that it would potentially block the use of ReVanced

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yeah I don't know what they'll block yet but I'm already assuming some of my apps will be blocked. It's pretty terrible news. I really didn't want to have to hunt down a phone that was compatible with alternative OS's.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    From my understanding, it will only allow apps that were registered, so since ReVanced uses identical package names to the patched apps, it probably won't work unless they start using ReVanced-specific package names that are tied to their identity. But that would allow Google to block these package names (or ban ReVanced completely) if say, Spotify or YouTube complain about them.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Unless revanced somehow gets the APKs resigned it will almost certainly destroy revanced.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    What if I come up with a random package name, like "online.discuss.jim3692", register that name and a keypair, and then build ReVanced using that name and keys?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Because Google will find out and revoke the key

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    What if I keep the apks for me and my family, instead of publicly releasing them.

    This is probably similar to the state of Piped and Invidious. Google tries to kill them, so we are hosting private instances, instead of relying on public ones.

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  • [–] 55 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

    Google has been been cracking down on installing .apk's on your phone for years and they're getting more and more aggressive about it. It's not a question of if they'll disallow it completely, but when.

    It's already extremely tedious. Back in the Android 2.3 days (oh, good old Gingerbread) you could just get an APK and install it, but those times are long gone.

    Years ago they threatened the developer of Total Commander to remove his app from the PlayStore unless he patched out an APK install feature, so he was forced to do that.

    Now another example: Try to install eBay on a phone that is not passing device integrity. It is not listed on the PlayStore because your device doesn't pass safety checks. You can grab an APK and install it, but the OS will check if the app has been installed through the PlayStore and if it hasn't, it will complain and close itself.

    GrapheneOS has patched that bullshit out, btw.

    And this behaviour happens with all apps where the developer has enabled the "App Integrity" option, which is heavily pushed as a super-great security feature. So developers might just enable that feature, not being fully aware of the implications.

    As you can see, it's one method at a time, slowly but surely, until Google fully controls the ecosystem. The intention behind that is pretty clear: They don't want people to have AdAway and Revanced, they want money and user data. And they also want you to login to the PlayStore, get hooked on their stupid daily points challenges and spend your hard-earned money on virtual crap.

    This is textbook enshittification, it will only get worse from here on.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    AdAway can be easily emulated using a DNS server...

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Yeah I carry that DNS server around with me in the other pocket /s

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Idk why you're meming, it's easy as hell to run it on device, or you can just use dns.adguard.com instead

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    To be fair, unless you're using a private, controllable DNS with a frontend interface (like NextDNS, Pihole, etc) -- DNS ad blocking is "all or nothing". Those apps let you control which apps and services and domains come through.

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  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    How can that be legal?

    Because Apple does it

    Fuck.

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  • [–] 92 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    No one talking about how this could completely annihilate open source .apk development? First off the lead dev has to get identity verified to get a key, which will reduce the number of devs willing to push through friction to start a project. Then when the key is issued and it is posted to the repository, what keeps anyone from grabbing it and using it for another repo? We'll they have an official app registration of some kind, ok, what about version control? Does every new version have to be registered before it can be loaded and tested? Same for forks?

    This is about to be a terrible mess, Google is assassinating FOSS with this.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You distribute the code without your key and a built package that is signed. This isn't exactly rocket science.

    Anyone who forks the code will have to use their own key to install a package they built.

    It's just unnecessary red tape.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago

    It's just unnecessary red tape.

    Which will reduce the number of people using foss apks, which will in turn, reduce the motivation, and then the number, of foss apk developers.

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  • It will kill everyone that is playing around with the phones. I have done a couple mobile projects where I just sideloaded the package I created to quickly test it and to demo it to people. Now that I can't do that why would I develop for your platform by choice.

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  • [+] 45 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 84 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Its 2050, you are waiting outside of the HR Office waiting for them to talk to you. You're certain that your job has just been replaced by a robot.

    Fuck this shit, you thought, 90% of the people are unemployed anyways, fuck this 16 hour shift.

    You pull out your hand terminal (yes a "hand terminal", as "smartphones" no longer have local storage now, almost all computing is done on cloud) and start typing in your journal app: "Down with the regime, Down with tyranny!". You tap "save".

    "Action not authorized. This incident has been reported"

    2 seconds later, you can hear sirens in the distance growing louder and louder.

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  • [+] 61 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The ultra wealthy are building bunkers. Preserving any form of society no longer interests them.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    they wont be able to sustain it, without the 'worker" slaves turning on them, what more likely to happen is they live in the pristine cities while everyone else not part of that circle is in the slums outside the city.

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    [–] 39 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    It also becomes no different than iPhone, so.. what's keeping me to android if they do this? Or hey, maybe I'll commit to de-googling. I have CoMaps, I'm planning to setup nextcloud soon... Hell, I don't even buy anything on Google play anymore since it's so shit, i have no purchases tying me to the OS. Maybe I'll buy a cheap old iPhone so I can finally use imessage with everyone that's been bitching about me and use other tech for everything else.

    (I'm not going to iPhone, but the point stands)

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I left iphone because of a walled garden issue, was thinking about working with my parents off of iphone so I can actually assist with them because I've been off of it for decades.

    Instead may be the other direction because at least iOS has a modicum of privacy by at least telling the US government to make their own back doors instead of just licking the boot like google does. I'm not a fan of apple by any stretch of the imagination, but at this point of the falling apart world fuck it, I gotta figure out what the least evil is, even if it's only marginal.

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    [–] 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    So Android is pointless now?
    No, really. If I'm gonna be dragged kicking and screaming into the walled garden, why would I go with Google's joke of an ecosystem instead of much nicer and better integrated Apple garden?

    I might as well start carrying one of those weird branded ultra-tiny laptops from AliExpress and some used, older iPhone for the 2 apps I need.
    Fuck it. Throw out the baby, the bathwater, the bathtub, the whole damn thing. Fuuuuck it.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    i have a feeling that google largely gave up on making a decent phone for a while, all they want is your data, plus to put thier AI into everything to offset the cost of using AI.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Google can get fucked. I feel like there will be a nontrivial market for de-googled or older and unlocked Android phones after this. If they manage to kill off custom roms with their previous AOSP rug pull I'll go back to using a (subpar) Linux phone or maybe even one of those cheap flip phones.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Don't worry we can just install Graphene OS on Pixel phones, there is no problem with my plan !

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    I started joking that my next phone will be a Nokia 3310. I feel more and more each day like that should just be my actual next phone

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Funny enough, Nokia started making cheap flip phones and some others in that form factor again. My daughter asked to replace her smartphone with one of the flip phones. It was only $70, so I got her one. It's build quality is what you would expect, but it works and has GPS at least.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    They even actually re-released a version of the 3310 a few years back. I still have my old Garmin knocking about, wonder if it's got updated maps if I got a model without GPS.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    It even runs WhatsApp and Signal now, or at least, that was the plan a while back. And it's only like 60 euros or something. Perfect for multiple day festivals and camping trips at least.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Which model is that exactly? I'd love a "dumb" phone with Signal.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I'm confused. I read an article about the new 3310 getting the ability to install apps, a long time ago. I found an article on how to do so, but it doesn't look like the 3310 screen in the screenshots but a general android OS. I thought it had a simplified OS, either their own or a stripped down android (unsure) as it has a tiny screen.

    It's the Nokia 3310 4G model according to this article. But it might be a generic article in which they have the phone model automatically generated by the one you search for?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    There's more and more people who feel just like you do. I'm so exhausted of all these companies being predatory and anti consumer. I'm the type to stand my ground and abstain or find alternatives, but it feels like there's 5 people who don't care and 4 people who will just let it go for every person willing to boycott bullshit.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yes there are dozens of people who care. The vast majority of people never sideload.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I'm making a statement about companies in general. People are just so willing to bend over and take it. In my mind people used to have more gumption, but I'm probably overestimating how much was individuals vs how the media portrayed things.

    Feels like if Upton Sinclair released "the jungle" today we'd all collectively say "oh well, guess we're eating rats and formaldehyde."

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