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[–] 62 points 1 year ago* (11 children)

This could only be 'shocking' because "war" is a misleading misnomer used to obfuscate the nature of the occupation.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 year ago (10 children)
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (7 children)
  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    No. The Holocaust (a proper noun) refers to a specific genocide.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You are incorrectly conflating two different things:

    The word holocaust existed in the English language prior to the 1930s, and was only later appropriated into the proper noun you reference to describe the Nazi’s systematic persecution and extermination of Jews, Poles, Romani and other ‘undesirable’ minority groups.

    It derives from the Ancient Greek words "whole" (holos) & "burnt" (kaustos); and was used to describe large-scale destruction, either literally by fire, or figuratively as a descriptor for widespread ruin.

    I used it intentionally to draw the attention to the similarities between the crimes that Israel are now perpetrating on the Palestinian people, to those perpetrated on Jews by Nazi Germany in the 30s & 40s.

    Modern day Israel does not have exclusive rights to the term, nor the ability to use it as a bulwark against criticism for their current barbarism.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    and was only later appropriated into the proper noun you reference to describe the Nazi’s systematic persecution and extermination of Jews, Poles, Romani and other ‘undesirable’ minority groups.

    Yes, that’s my point.

    After 1930 it became a proper noun. We’re not speaking Ancient Greek and it’s after the 1930s.

    I see Lemmy is filling up with people (not you, the downvote brigade that exists around politically charged topics) who conflate disagreement about minor issues with being on the other side of the argument. Nuance isn’t Ancient Greek either, but you’d think it was given the way people react on social media.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    I guess it will have to be appropriated again to also describe the Palestinian holocaust. Their plight is even worse than the Jews IMO, because their whole country became the concentration and extermination camp. They deserve it more.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    The Rwandan "Machete Season" Holocaust was an actual holocaust.

    No "nation", not even the nation of Jews or Zionists, has ANY right to pretend that only their subjection-to-genocide was a holocaust.

    The 7 exterminations enforced by the Israelites, according to the old-testament, were the original holocausts.

    ( some places in the bible identify 7 nations, others 6:

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+20%3A17&version=CJB

    is the verse where it orders the final solution against 6 nations, to get the sense of what HOLOCAUST meant, originally. )

    Hittites, etc, nations, exterminated.

    Leonard Shlain identified that, in his book "The Alphabet Versus The Goddess", btw: I'd never have noticed it, instead assuming that holocausting was always normal, but it wasn't..

    ( & he didn't notice that the Catholic Inquisition holocausted women, ultra-proving his book's point, as it was the latin-educated who were enforcing that holocausting-of-women, & to a lesser extent, holocausting-of-Jews,

    so his work is corroborated by evidence he didn't notice, too. )

    Nationalist-narcissism cannot be permitted to false-frame our world: that is machiavellian disinformation, aka highjacking.

    ( the intentional infecting-with-smallpox of the American Indians, by English invaders, was holocausting, just using a different weapon,

    The Rape of Nanking, ..

    traipse through history & lots of holocausting becomes visible. )

    I've no problem with "The Nazi Holocaust of Jews" being a proper-noun,

    but when any nation presumes that no others' being genocided, & their genociding-of-others never can be allowed to count, .. that narcissism can go eat rocks.

    Read into the Inquisition, & see that it definitely was systematic, it absolutely was at the depopulating-entire-regions scale, 1 German .. town? .. ( as opposed to city? ) iirc, had only 1 female life left, after they came through

    ( I said female not girl or woman, because I don't remember her age, not because of the "men & females" false-framing habit that many men have, for those wanting to accuse me of meaning what I didn't mean )

    No, no nation on this world has exclusive validity, no matter how their scripture tells them that they are the ONLY ones that G-D has chosen.

    That applies to all Abrahamic-religion variants, & all other religion's variants, too.

    Narcissism is itself, & it isn't inherently-valid.

    Objectivity shows that genociding/holocausting has happened MANY times in our recorded & archeologically-discoverable history, & displacing false-framing from our world, displacing disinformation from our world, is REQUIRED, if this-species is to exist after this-century's Great Filter is finished.

    Maybe objectivity/integrity's simply too-much to ask, of our species..

    If so, then next-century will be silent of humankind.


    _ /\ _

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    the idf will be fuming at this data. they would have expected that number to be closer to six out of six.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    There are like 10,000 Hamas members TOTAL so yah if you have 60,000 deaths then BASIC COMMON SENSE would tell you this is clearly a genocidal attack on civilians. I doubt the ratio is even 1:6 because they sure as fuck haven't eliminated every Hamas member at this point.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Hamas is closer to 40000 according to pre-war estimates.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Notably hamas being essentially the government there includes clerks cooks janitors, plumbers.

    Kinda hard to personally blow up the building where bob the plumber sleeps killing him his kids and 10 other folks and claim to have hit any military targets.

    Governments often claim to kill a military target when they kill a prime age male even without realistically identifying a combatant especially where bombing is used.

    It's probably closer to 80-90% civilians

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    I would say 6/6 are civilians. Can't blow up a man's whole family and act like he's the terrorist when he retaliates using the only means available.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    The number of people killed is actually the number of verified dead bodies; it doesn't include people blown to pieces or buried under debris. I feel like that meaningful difference should always be presented instead of casually simplifying it to "number of people killed."

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    A lot of people I ask in person don’t happen to realize the size and population of Gaza compared to the state they live in. When you add that perspective, it might change their perspective.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    What is the future plan for this now? Let's say we get peace between Israel and Palestine. How can one expect any country to live peacefully next to an other country that has taken a huge bite off its demographic like this?

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Just like the american civil war, time will heal after some decades or centuries

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Is that what happened after the American Civil War?

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    700k americans died in thr civil war

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    Yes but my point is that we did not really reconcile. The Civil War's division has never properly healed, as evidenced by our current political situation.

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  • World: cricket chirp

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