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[–] 107 points 1 year ago (14 children)

I don't even notice Debian, which is exactly how an operating system should work.

And yet...

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Here's the thing. When I talk to friends interested in Linux, it's always Debian or Fedora that I suggest. I think they draw a good line for what the average user wants and needs and they're stable. In fact, I used Fedora for a long time, and all my homelab stuff runs Debian. It wasn't until computers themselves became a hobby that I switched to Arch. And I think that's likely the cutoff. If you're a computer user, stable distros are great. If you're more a hobbiest... Well, the Arch wiki can own your free time.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Debian is where the jaded users end up when they lack the will to flash another usb stick.

    "I'm good, fuck it."

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Normal distro -> arch -> gentoo -> nixOS -> QubesOS -> Debian pipeline.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The only problem with Debian is that I want packages from this century.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Thats what you think you want but by the time you're at the end of the pipeline you just want a computer that works.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    So far, that's exactly why I've stopped at Nix.

    Everything is declared exactly how I want it. If something would break, it just bails on the update. If I want to set up a new machine, I just clone my config and build it.

    I'm not sure what could be more "just works" than that.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    When I went 24.11 it exploded in some fantastic manner. None of my boot menu rollbacks worked. I spent a long ass time trying to recover the upgrade. I eventually realized it would be a lot faster to wipe, reinstall, re-import my old home and configuration.nix and I was back up.

    25.05 didn't even flinch, just worked.

    Now I'm patiently waiting for postmarket to sort out LTE modems on phones before I buy an old pixel and install nixos on it :)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    In my experience that means packages from this century. Eventually you do need a new software for something. Trying to get software from 10 years ago to agree with software released in the last 6 months leads to breaking things or finding myself doing Linux From Scratch on top of debian or ubuntu.

    It turns out if everything is new everything really does just work. That's why I use Artix (child of Arch). It's less pain. You just have to ignore the myth that these systems are "hard." Graphics cards and Steam work out of the gait. There is a reason why StreamOS is built on Arch.

    No more compile hell in the rare case you need to compile because the AUR does the same thing, but in a single command line resolving all dependencies. It's like compiling without the experience of compiling.

    Just make sure you always pacman -Syu before pacman -S {package}. No exceptions. Or in rare cases you may have to chroot from a live disk and pacman -S linux to fix your initramfs. If you do that one thing nothing ever breaks.

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  • [–] 76 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The literal ArchWiki says you may not want to use Arch if you are happy with your current OS.

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  • [–] 59 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Almost every interaction with a boomer involving their computer/phone

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    The zoomers and gen-alpha aren't doing much better. Just ask the average teen what a filesystem is and how to find a file without it being organized in some sort of media gallery app.

    As a millennial, I often feel like I'm surrounded by tech illiterates on both the upper AND lower sides of my age bracket.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Unpopular opinion: install community distros, not corporate ones. That way you can support the developers for their hardwork. Redhat doesn't need our money, they already make enough of it. I use CachyOS, btw.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I just switched to CachyOS and I’m really enjoying it so far. My journey so far has been Mint > Bazzite > Kubuntu > back to Mint > CachyOS and for the first time I don’t have any real complaints. There’s a voice inside my head telling me to jump to just standard Arch though. Not really sure why. Have you tried standard Arch? If so, how does it compare to CachyOS? I probably won’t end up switching, I haven’t had any issues yet and I’m a computer problem magnet and certified idiot, so I’ll probably stick to what works, but something draws me to pure Arch.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I've run vanilla arch for quite a while. CachyOS is a ton better. Arch is barebones and you have to do everything yourself. If you have the time and patience to do it, then more power to ya. I'm a dad of two, one of which is on the spectrum. So, I wanted something like Arch that just works and doesn't require too much maintenance, and cachy has been just that.

    I've not had a single major issue with it in the 3 months it's been running on my machine. Just your normal Linux annoyances. I love how the gaming package on cachy is literally one click of a button. Also, it's a lot faster

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Thanks for your input. I’m going to be a dad soon, so I should probably stick with cachy then.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Dude, fucking congratulations 🎉🎉. And yes, your PC should never take time away from your kids. I love taking care of mine, they're so much fun. I love that my PC just works. And if Cachy gives me any trouble, it's gone and will be replaced with something immutable like Bazzite. I legit want my machine to JUST work with minimal issues. I have had Bazzite on a laptop I have for close to 6 months now and it's rock solid and a true just works distro.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

    i was happy with Arch on my server.

    then, i installed NixOS on it.

    update: i've set it up to a usable state, it's a minecraft server

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  • [–] 59 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Arch on my server

    Sane people usually go bungee jumping or cave diving to get their irrational danger kicks.

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  • [+] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I also use arch on my servers and it's really stable. Until today that is. I updated one of my systems and it broke Nvidia docker runtime.

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  • [+] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yes I know but I need Cuda :(

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  • [+] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Am I the only one that feels like saying "you do you" is more insulting then telling someone to just go fuck themselves and they are a raging idiot.

    It just comes across as the most possible condescending possible response possible in the English language.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    The funny thing for me is I swapped to fedora after my last attempt to use arch failed spectacularly.

    I've found I'm at a point where I just want my device to work and work well

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    /me a 42 year old that uses Arch

    I take that personally.

    /me adjusts my knee high socks.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If everything is the way you like it, you are winning. Keep on winning.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    And I thought all Arch users already switched to Nix OS (BTW)

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I want to switch to Nix... the idea of Nix is compelling. In practice every time I try and test it out I remember that I'm an idiot with a keyboard and I should stop.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I personally think Nix OS brings some amazing features, very few of which are relevant for me as a regular laptop user without my own server farm. Sure, reproducible builds and dynamic package versions are neat. But if it takes me 1000 hrs to learn how to write a functional config file that I now have to keep updated, if I have to work with some weird repository, there is no documentation and community infighting... Nah, I'll stick to debian (BTW) for a while.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Nah, I looked at it and it doesn't interest me. I like arch because, contrary to popular belief, it is quite stable (as in non crashing, not package versions) if you only install exactly what you need. I had way more stability issues on the more standard distros since they had so much extra stuff. Debian for servers every day though.

    Nix looks interesting in theory, but is a lot of work and too opinionated for me. Far from an expert though and have nothing against those that like it or any other distro.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)

    As someone considering getting Arch, what is unstable about the package versions? I thought the rolling release was a selling point, but does it actually make things more unstable?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    "unstable" as in changing regularly. Not in any way to do with how reliable it is (as another comment mentioned, that's a better way to differentiate).

    I've had far fewer problems updating arch (once I had a clean system anyway) than I ever did trying to move through distribution updates on various other more "standard" ones.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    So the updates don't tend to break things? Is it just annoying to constantly update?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Not the same person, but my updates take like 30s (if I don’t go looking at what changed) and happen whenever I want. We’re not talking windows updates here, just sudo pacman -Syu, seeing the list of what’s changing (etc firefox went up a version? Cool), and then saying “sure” if it looks good to me. Don’t even need to restart all the time, although I tend to do updates before turning my pc off anyway so I nearly always do.

    Packages tend to use the latest stable version of their software, unless you choose a beta branch instead, so if anything I think I’ve run into less broken software than on Debian-based distros because you don’t get bugs that were fixed a week ago but haven’t made it into the official apt repository version yet. If there is a bug, you can just not upgrade that package if you know about it in advance or just downgrade it until they release a fix (I’ve never had to do this but iirc you can pin a version in pacman).

    Not suggesting to jump ship if you’re happy with your current distro, but arch is a great learning experience to set up and once you have a good system running it’s absolutely rock solid. Just don’t expect to install it in fifteen minutes like other distros, if you want a good install you have to do all the reading yourself (arch wiki is priceless) to make informed choices because you’re entirely responsible for piecing together your own OS.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Thank you! That makes sense. I'm on Windows 11 and therefore not happy with my current "distro" 😅 I know Arch isn't recommended for beginners, but I hope that if I take it slow and read a lot, I might survive.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I think you can definitely survive it as a beginner if you’re both patient and happy to learn about your OS, but most people recommend trying another distro first so you don’t have to learn everything up front all at once and that’s good advice imo. Even if you’re happy to learn everything thru the wiki and want to jump into the deep end, I’d probably recommend checking out other distros on distrosea first just so you have an idea of what’s out there and what you like/dislike.

    You’ll have to read about and then make a choice for every component of your system, from the filesystem to the kernel to all your user space programs and DE, so you’ll make better choices if you’ve seen some of the options in action imo.

    I should also mention I’ve heard the archinstall script trivializes installing arch so if you want an easy way in you could use that - id probably keep this in mind or better, put your arch iso on ventoy along with a second choice of distro in case you get overwhelmed and just want your computer functional again.

    Good luck tho, if you choose to do it I hope you have as much fun as I did! Don’t be afraid to ask questions on whichever of the Linux communities are relevant, but definitely expect a lot of “just use mint” answers if you say you’re installing arch as a new Linux user lol.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's extremely rare. Big breaking updates are normally shown in the arch news. Usually they just require a command or two to remove a conflicting package before the update. I think there's been a few in the last year, but on the flip side I never got a clean distro update on anything but Debian and they usually took a lot more effort to clean up.

    Where it may be "unstable" is if a specific program updates (upstream) with some major change or other, whereas another distro might hold off a while.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You can have your cake and eat it too! Just install Arch in a VM to play around with without jeopardizing the stability of your main machine. Once you feel comfortable, you can make the switch. Or not. Having choices is great.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    I moved to fedora after a decade on Arch.

    Feels like home.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm happy with Arch (BTW) and have the same thoughts about NixOS.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah the concept of NixOS is impossible to not be attracted to for avid Arch users.

    The reality? It can be a deterrent.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I attempted a few times. Setting up additional repositories and/or enabling testing repos declaratively was not possible. you had to do it via command line before setting the system. checked back some time later, still was the case. Also there are many ways to do the same thing, what are flakes, how to declaratively manage home (again there were multiple ways to do that). Are some of those ways deprecated, are some in testing, which one is assumed to be the default? etc.

    If I ever need to manage multiple machines, and I have to setup a new machine every 6 months or so I'll get to work and learn. Other than that, isn't really worth the trouble.

    But still tempting :)

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You’re really going to settle on an os with imperfections? With arch, you could finally do what you’ve been meaning to do without the constraints that others’ small minded inefficiencies produce. Just think about it. An OS precisely to your liking. No compromises, just your apotheosis. Become what you were meant to be. (Mate btw)

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I've been running cachyOS for the last few months....

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    i've heard a bunch of people talking about cachyos

    i use endeavour os, and when i get my pc back (i moved and haven't been able to build it yet) i'm planning on installing base arch

    so, what are the upsides to cachyos?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    As a gaming-oriented distro, CachyOS is ready to use right out of the box. It’s similar to Endeavor, but goes a few steps further with its opinions. I’d still be using it if it weren’t for AUR’s serious malware problems.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    I tried arch at one point :3 im back on pop!_os tho

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Arch is for new users, experienced ones use Gentoo

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  • [+] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I don’t get distro hopping

    There are better uses for your time

    But hey, do as you want

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yeah at some point they are all the same to me it's just the different package manager. Pacman, apt, yum or whatever they are calling it now a days.

    Most use systemd.

    I started using Arch flavors because when you have brand new hardware the latest kernel can be important. After the machine is a couple years old it doesn't really matter.

    Also Endeavouros is where it's at (but don't tell the vanilla Arch people, they won't help me with my problems if they find out)

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Agreed. After years of Ubuntu (who remember single digits?) Endeavour OS really knocked it out of the park on my new laptop. Everything smooth as butter, out of the box. Hibernation works on a bleeding edge device. No tearing. HDR works. VRR works. YouTube 4k 60fps no drops. Games run beautifully.

    Okay, some BT issues, and the Wifi card is crap, and I don't know how much of this is due to having an AMD graphics vs NVIDIA. But it's sooo damn smooth. Games just work. KDE plasma >>>> gnome, and I say that as a gnome user since canonical killed unity.

    Don't get me started on the arch ecosystem and documentation. yay 😁

    Just do what you've been wanting to do for a long time

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    I think when you first get into Linux it's a valid thing. you want to find the distro that you're most comfortable with.

    When I first started using linux I tried them all and eventually just settled on Arch because it felt right to me. That being said I don't knock anyone who uses whatever. A good friend of mine online uses Slackware and he loves it, it works for him. There's no "wrong" distro, it's whatever works for you. you have to initially hop around though to find that though.

    Also distro hopping is great when it comes to helping people, especially new linux users. I've made many friends within the community because for a solid year I just hopped all over the place and tried to learn it all.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    What is grass and why should I touch it?

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