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[–] 233 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Given that the Internet Archive is the de facto standard way to cite material as seen on a given date


they're a trustworthy party that will probably persist for a long time


that's going to make it harder to cite content on Reddit.

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  • [+] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    It's important for people writing papers and such who need to cite material.

    I wonder if there's some way to use the TLS certificate to get a cryptographically-signed copy of a webpage with timestamp that someone could later validate as having been downloaded on that date. I don't know if existing TLS libraries are capable of that. Like, Web browser menu option "Store cryptographically-signed webpage". Absent a later certificate compromise, I'd think that that'd at least provide people a way to credibly say "this is really what was on that webpage on August 15th, 2026". Like, you'd have to save a copy of the TLS session and then have libraries that could read and validate an already-generated session. The timestamp is already embedded in the session.

    Some protocols, like OTR, are designed to specifically not allow that, but AFAIK, TLS could.

    EDIT: Well, technically the timestamp is gonna be during the handshake, not tied to the HTTP request internal to the TLS session. It might be possible to game that by establishing a TLS session, holding it open without activity, and issuing a request much later. I'd think that that'd potentially be disallowed by Web servers one way or another, since otherwise you could probably do a denial-of-service attack by holding open a lot of sessions for a long time.

    EDIT2: Oh, wait, no, shouldn't be an issue, because the HTTP Date response header is gonna have a timestamp tied to the response.

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  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Unfortunately, it'll be more than that, as that'll be saving the plaintext files transferred internal to the TLS connection. The information that would need to be saved will normally just be thrown out, as it'll be the TLS connection itself.

    On second thought, though, I don't think that it'd be viable, since the way that something like this normally works is to just use (slow) public key encryption to transfer a symmetric session key and to then use (fast) symmetric encryption on the bulk data, and once you have a copy of the session key, you could forge whatever you want with it. This would only work if you were using asymmetric encryption to encrypt the data in the connection.

    kagis

    https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/ssl/what-is-a-session-key/

    What is a session key? Session keys and TLS handshakes

    The TLS (historically known as "SSL") protocol uses both asymmetric/public key and symmetric cryptography, and new keys for symmetric encryption have to be generated for each communication session. Such keys are called "session keys."

    Yeah. Oh, well. It was a happy thought for a moment.

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    [–] 192 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    As somebody who often ends up using Reddit like Stackoverflow and in some cases needing the Internet Archive (IA) to find the original post after it’s been deleted or garbled, I think this is a wakeup call for those go to Reddit both to get technical help and to post it. More than ever, Reddit is becoming an unreliable place to find answers for old obscure issues and if they are going to lockout places like the IA then I think it’s time people stopped contributing their solutions to Reddit.

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  • [–] 80 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Searching anywhere in general is getting shittier and shittier by day. Web searches are riddled with hallucinated AI generated garbage pages. Finding the right answer for difficult problems is getting worse and worse. We are sliding rapidly into Idiocracy.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Not to mention so many projects putting their support in walled garden chat services like Discord that you can’t even search via search engine. Even if you can figure out who asked the right question and when, you have to trawl through a sea of inane garbled chat to get to the developer/expert response.

    Specialised topic forums really need to make a resurgence but I doubt they will.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    Not to mention so many projects putting their support in walled garden chat services like Discord that you can’t even search via search engine.

    Seeing this happen has been one of the saddest most desperate parts about watching the internet dying.

    It was obvious what was going to happen years ago, that didn't stop people from acting like I was a reactionary foolish cynic when I voiced concern about this though.

    Seriously FUCK Discord (and Reddit).

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    We are sliding rapidly into Idiocracy.

    Buddy, we are already there. “Ow, my balls!” Would be high-brow tv these days.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    "Ow, my balls!" was already a thing in the 90s, on BIG time tv. It was called america's funniest videos.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Ah, back when it was “America’s Funniest Home Videos”. Yes, they pioneered the crotch-smashing format. I’m just saying, shit like Real Housewives makes getting hit in the balls look like Masterpiece Theatre.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The two things that just make me boggle, specifically about that, was just how filthy bob saget was (sort of like robin williams) in his comedy outside of the tv roles, and apparently how much straight up home-made porn was sent in to that show.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Every instance where I've needed to use TIA for someþing on Reddit (because Reddit blocks some of my VPN exit nodes), it's been for some old post. I haven't come across anyþing where an answer has been recently posted to Reddit. Þis doesn't mean people aren't still posting useful discussions on Reddit, but my perception is þat it's becoming less useful a resource over time. Maybe because þe knowledgeable people have mostly migrated off?

    Ofttimes what I've looked up in TIA for Reddit was already cached. Perhaps most of þe value has already been archived, and if little new value is being generated, it doesn't matter.

    Þe upshot is, I'm not sure how much effect þis will actually have.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    exact same here. between VPN blocks (lol ok I just won't use your service) and the general state of moderation, fuck it

    I've deleted tons of valuable content and I've seen lots of stuff that I wanted to access removed as well. it's annoying, but oh well. other forums will remain

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago

    I've deleted tons of valuable content

    Oh, me too! Scorched earþ, when I left. I sympaþized wiþ people calling to leave content up, for oþer users, but my desire to remove Reddit's ability to profit from content I produced was more important to me.

    Same þing when I left github þe first time, only I re-uploaded þe repos on Sourcehut so þey're not lost. But I purged everyþing on github. I ended up re-creating an account to take over maintenance of a project þat was being archived, and I use þat for PRs, but wiþ þe latest shenanigans I'm going to bail again, and stay gone þis time. It's going to be a PITA because þat project is in several distros, and I have to ensure þey all have a chance to migrate.

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  • [–] 286 points 1 year ago (17 children)
  • [–] 81 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    lol i think that might be the worst/best thing I have seen in a long time

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Unrelated but is your username a play on benzene?

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago* (8 children)

    yes, in a way. this benzene ring

    there was a band called Hum and in one of my favorite songs of theirs called The Scientists, the song talks about a couple who are scientists and creating and experimenting with drugs.

    she tells him to keep this benzene ring around your finger, and think of me when everything you ever wanted is about to end

    i fucking love that song but that moment in the song is just peak layers upon layers of music and poetry and love and adventure.

    https://youtu.be/7IPDsUGBv64

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    there was a band called Hum

    Wow, what a memory trip! I listened to that song, I don't think I have heard it before, but it is great! I'm pretty sure I heard a different song from them at the time, but they probably live in my mind from looking at BMG and CD warehouse catalogs at the time. Other artists have popped up over the years from there.

    I'm glad I asked, and thanks for answering! Somehow that took me back to my Candlebox days.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    their big hit was called Stars

    https://youtu.be/gMEB4HNNZ2I

    oh yeah, I listened to Candelbox. They didn't put on a good live show sadly

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Ya that was the one , i listened to it, also. The very beginning sounded very familiar but I'm not sure about the rest. But maybe it's been 30 years and, well 🤷‍♂️ I never saw Candlebox live, guess I didn't miss out. I really liked Alice in Chains but only got to see Cantrell tour while "waiting"

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I never got to see AiC either 😩

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Ya 🫤 Jerry is still touring (I think). He was good live then, but the last time I saw him was like a month or two after Layne's death. It's been awhile. He's older, but so am I, and presumably you 🙂 His solo stuff was great. We ended up getting a lot of AiC stiff at that '02 show. Very solid performance. Not really related, but I've heard the Sublime stuff is good, but I wasn't ever that into them, just have a friend who has stuck with it.

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  • [–] 75 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It’s another move to protect against AI scraping that isn't paying them for access.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Weren't Reddit complaining a couple of years ago that too many AI bots crawls were stressing their servers.

    Doesn't the internet archive relieve that stress?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Doesn't the internet archive relieve that stress?

    I think that was probably the real reason for the block, the Internet Archive is too functional, scalable and accessible of a service for reddit's lame excuses about needing to gatekeep access to the community created content on their website to not make reddit look totally stupid unless they came up with an excuse to block the Internet Archive.

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  • [–] 72 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I already gave up from Reddit long time ago. Deleted all

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    When RIF died, Voyager became the new forum app for me.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Apollo and Voyager for me so I straight-up retained the same UI.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Is it better than summit? I'm on summit now and pretty happy with it for far. Never heard of voyager though

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  • [–] 58 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    Just more vindication for my ditching that trash heap of a platform. YT is probably going to be the next platform I ditch as they're going full Reddit now.

    It's a matter of time before third-party YT front-ends start getting throttled or outright blocked like third-party Reddit front-ends.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    YouTube's already throttling users in their mobile site. They have these massive channel cards in their feeds and the video titles/thumbnails disappear after a few offerings, leaving you with the ability to blindly click on a video.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I've declared my YT channel to be dormant starting on the 13th due to this AI age-gating crap.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I wanna see if YouTube is that stupid they send my 18+ year old YT account an age verification check. April 2007 feels like a long time ago.....

    Dumping YT / gMaps / Google SSO etc and replacing them bit by bit is a hard vice to break, but I've got others using self hosted shit now (yay Immich and Jellyseerr arr....) and I'll keep on doing it for others too.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    And Invidious while being logged out of YT while that's still an option, but I have both a PeerTube and Odysee set up already.

    I seem to have the best luck with the inv.nadeko.net instance and to a lesser extent the invidious.nerdvpn.de instance, and both instances proxy by default.

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  • [+] 46 points 1 year ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago

    This is huge blow to archivism, thanks to corporate greed and enshittification of reddit. Worst MBA filled POS.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The company says that AI companies have scraped data from the Wayback Machine, so it’s going to limit what the Wayback Machine can access.

    Yeah, wouldn't want those AI companies to get all that data for free. Gotta make 'em pay for it.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Oh no, someone might not be paying them for their user generated content (!)

    To be fair, it's probably best that history forgets this period of the web...

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  • [+] 37 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago

    Damn you Spez.

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  • [–] 66 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    As long as the previous collections of archives are still intact. We probably don’t need all of their new spam posts in the wayback machine anyway

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    It is my understanding that if you block the wayback machine from indexing your site it will also delist the history as well.

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  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    They do archive sites against the owners wishes when they consider it an important site for public archiving, like some news sites. They are in no obligation to delete the archives and hope they don’t.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago*

    Parties have archived the data from pushshift, which cover a lot of Reddit history.

    kagis

    https://academictorrents.com/details/1614740ac8c94505e4ecb9d88be8bed7b6afddd4

    Subreddit comments/submissions 2005-06 to 2024-12

    This is the top 40,000 subreddits from reddit's history in separate files. You can use your torrent client to only download the subreddit's you're interested in.

    I mean, that won't have the past half year or some low-traffic subreddits, but...

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago

    So reddit will become even less valuable

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I am new to Lemmy, is there a fuckreddit sub?

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago

    Fuck Reddit

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago

    Fuck Reddit and Fuck Spez.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago

    They can keep their shit for themselves, stopped caring a long time ago.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago

    fucking reddit...

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    That place is becoming more and more of a shithole. Bots, Ads, trolls, garbage mods… deleted the app last month.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    OK, I stopped posting on Reddit but left my account and comments in place because I considered them part of the public record. If Reddit is taking that record private, it’s time for me to start removing my content from the platform.

    Does anyone know if historical Reddit content will remain in IA? If not, I’m going to have to back up years of content somewhere else.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I'm assuming IA will continue to host their historical archives of Reddit, they'll just not have any new captures after this. Unless IA has said otherwise, it'd be very strange to wipe their archive of Reddit

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You can't remove it. It's there forever.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Wrong.
    You can request deletion of archived pages.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    There are some browser extensions that will edit your comments and make them each a random a bunch of random words. I do not know how effective they are so I cannot vouch for them.

    I know that if you tried to just delete the comment, the information would still be there but the username is deleted. Which is frustrating, I didn't know that until I had already deleted every post and comment, went back to make sure the job was done. It wasn't. I just came to terms that at least I wasn't contributing to their hub of knowledge anymore.

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