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[–] 136 points 1 year ago (16 children)

"It's called dynamic range, you philistines!" quoth the audio engineer who hasn't consumed his own work on consumer-grade hardware since his early teens.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yep. I think this is the real problem right here. Whenever I’m producing my first pass at a music project, I do it on my laptop speakers or similar. That way I know the core idea of the track still works on basic speakers. I’ve tried going the other way and all that comes through is a melody if I’m lucky.

    I also check in the car and on a crappy BT speaker after. The fact that they’re producing entire movies and shows without ever seeming to do a consumer audio check is just annoying.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I hate audio dynamic range. And i also hate how they don't ensure dialogue is audible over other noises unless it's dubbed.

    This last one is so bad that I basically don't watch any American content in the original language anymore, because the French dub has clear voices and doesn't force me to use subtitles. So ridiculous.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    You don't hate dynamic range, you hate bad mixes, two different things, without dynamics audio sounds like shit. An explosion is supposed to be louder than talking speech.

    It's just not supposed to try to mimic the absurdity of an actual explosion, to the point of discomfort.

    Also, like said before in the parent comment, most consumer systems don't even even have the dynamics to reproduce it without distortion (or damage the woofers).

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Imma be honest, I don't see why the explosion should be louder than speech. I can see the boom; I can tell that it's an explosion. It doesn't need to be reinforced to be through volume.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Because cinema is supposed to be immersive, it's supposed to take the audience into the action, it's supposed to make you feel like you're there. Dynamics play an important part of this.

    It's not enough to acknowledge that there has been an explosion or a monster has screeched, it's important that the viewer feels in danger, like the monster can actually harm the viewer. To get that adrenaline pumping.

    Ofc when your levels are ridiculously exaggerated and you stretch over to the volume control all the time, then the immersion is broken because instead of watching the film you're too busy riding the fader.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    That should be optional. I don't wish to be "immersed". I just wanna see the story. Sure, make the "extreme" experience a possibility for those with a taste for the subtle things in the art or whatever, but don't push it onto all of us.

    Because ANYTIME there are sounds that are way louder than dialogues, of course I'm gonna reach for the remote, because holy shit.

    Plus, that idea of dynamic range is what allows ads to be so damn loud compared to everything else.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Well, it's now cinema is supposed to be.

    Ideally they could make two mixes, one for serious viewing and good systems and another for bringe watching or bad speakers. But since that would cost more money and isn't done, a good dynamic mix is preferable because you can always throw a compressor and some limiting to a dynamic mix, but you can't recover information after it's lost. And as a film and series enjoyer I don't want my experience to be nerfed.

    As for ads, I have no idea? I haven't watched an ad since I got internet many years ago. Idk how you're getting your media, maybe get an adblocker or use torrents?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Tbh if you only have the budget for one mix, it should be the mainstream one for 90% of viewers. If the producers wanna be artsy, go ahead, include an artsy mix with the BluRay or something.

    Imagine if they did something as extreme as they do to movies with music. You basically only hear the bass and the lyrics are incomprehensible unless you have an expensive sound system? Sheesh.

    By the way, normal people like me don't even know what a compressor is. To me, even the hassle of having a speaker outside of my TV isn't worth it. Most people are like this.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Lol no, if you only have budget for one mix it should be the one that preserves the most information, if "90%" of the viewers don't care about the art form they are watching then they don't have the right to ruin it for the people who do care.

    As for music there's the opposite problem, there's a problem in the music industry where most modern music is an incomprehensible mess thanks to the loudness wars, where modern music has zero dynamics, high distortion, lack of tangibility and overall boring.

    If you listen to a 70s or early 80s recording you will notice that together with greater dynamics, you have better sound quality, definition and tangibility, than modern trash. Independently of what system you listen it on.

    But a good mix will translate well no matter what system you have, it will sound good either on a 10000 dollars HiFi system or on some cheap pair of computer speakers.

    Seriously tho, personally I don't understand people who can tolerate watching anything with on a TVs built in speaker, I rather watch 480p with good sound than 4k on a TV speaker, but that's me.

    If I can't afford a reasonable pair of speakers then a 20 bucks pair of wired headphones can have excellent sound quality. So there's really no reason to defend a nerfed mix.

    With this, I'm not saying that some modern shows don't exaggerate and that their levels are past ridiculous.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I honestly haven't watched a lot of non-dubbed content in a while, considering my mom moved in with me and she doesn't tolerate other languages.

    But my ears aren't very sharp, so I can't tell what's a good mix. I'll be honest with you, I may own a decent pair wired earbuds, unless it's classical music, I can't hear much difference between music qualities.

    Bad color or motion handling on a TV, though, that's an instant cringe for me.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What I hate most about this attitude is a disregard for the fundamentals that make a film hold up over time: the story/plot/world building, way, way, way more than the graphics or other bells and whistles.

    Sound design and graphics are very important, but if you're sacrificing dialogue for the vast majority of watchers, for you to have a wank over dynamic range, then you don't have your priorities straight.

    They really ought to release multiple audio mixes. This is really getting annoying, and if wanting to hear dialogue is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Preach, brother. I don't get the fetish with aiming for 'natural' dynamic range in a movie in the first place. I need these people to explain to me why reproducing the relative sound pressure of a fucking explosion relative to normal speaking volume is somehow desirable to me.

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  • [–] 73 points 1 year ago*

    Mr. Lovenstein version

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  • [–] 53 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Nah, Christopher Nolan says it’s our fault that we don’t have IMAX theater setups at home.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Dynamic ads in podcasts are absolutely terrible for this.

    I am driving along listening to a podcast, and suddenly the ads appear at 50% higher volume, with zero warning.

    I wonder if you could sue a podcast provider for dammages if you are hard of hearing and need the podcast playing loud, and the ads come on and blow your speakers out...

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    What should be especially illegal is those ads that use "alert" sounds. Door knocks/bells, phone rings, and worst of all, fucking car horn and other alarm noises.

    Anything beeping or sounding like a siren should be completely forbidden for safety reasons.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    It’s literally the non-verbal equivalent of the classic “crying fire in a crowded theatre” scenario, it should already be illegal by existing law imo.

    “Honking horn at the operator of high speed multi-ton machine on their radio” seems pretty clear cut recklessness in my book.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    I thought it was quite bad already in the EU but we at least have standards for it. I'm currently in the US and watching TV I have to turn on closed captions for everything because voices are just so damm silent, while Ads and stuff just blast your face off.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    I think the US passed some sort of standard, under Obama, to normalize the volume for commercials on broadcast TV.

    That worked for a while, but now that everything is streaming, they're fucking doing it again. Because of course they are.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Tbf before that standard it was ROUGH. You'd have advertisers that would absolutely CRANK the volume on their sound, even distorting it, just to make it the loudest thing on earth. You could literally be somewhere in the house and just hear "mnmmmmnmnmnm....BIG BOBS CARPET EMPORIUM TWO DAYS ONLY" like it was some kind of stadium speaker system, like the neighbors hearing it was gonna help the ad reach more people.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    There also the fact that speakers on modern tvs suck because they want only a little black frame around the screen. CRTV speakers pointed at the viewer and modern tvs point downward or behind the screen, so everything is a bit muffled. It's like they forgot that audio is a big aspect of watching shows and movies or they are wanting to make a ton of money off a separate speaker system.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    but we at least have standards for it

    Holy shit. I didnt know that. We're on the baby-mode kiddy-gloved nanny-state-in-muh-TV mode?

    Poor Americans. They must be going deaf.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    The standards are still pretty bad, and most producers of movies and tv shows still don't balance their audio for home TVs, but I do believe Ads have a limited allowed "loudness".

    If it was real baby mode we would have a regulated minimum and maximum loudness for everything, so we don't have to change volume constantly.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah I can't hear the dialogue, but when those two characters kissed I could hear everything happening in their mouthes and that's what's really important.

    Two characters kiss in deep space 9 and it sounds like a kiss irl. Two characters kiss in superman (2025) (or almost any modern media) and I'm listening to a 30+ second close-up of the actors trying to wetly suck the other's lips into their mouth. Why??

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No idea why anyone thinks the kissing audio needs to be so pronounced. Drives me up the wall. Watching a tender scene, only to be ripped out of the moment by kissing audio that was recorded by having toddlers eating fettuccine alfredo for the first time.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Can someone tell me why I'm an idiot: streaming services have access to the entire video you're about to watch. They know the max and the min volume of that video. Why is there no setting to shrink that range? Is it going to degrade the audio really bad and they don't want to be blamed?

    This goes double for home theater software like Jellyfin, Kodi, and Plex. They have 10,000 customizations and settings, so why can't I define my own custom audio range in them?

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Technically speaking it's very easy to implement, it's just a compressor, oldest thing in audio after maybe the EQ.

    VLC has a compressor under effects, if you're using Linux you can add effects to pulse or pipewire really easy too.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Even if you can hear them, you'll still need captions because actors today mumble so much.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    What you need is dynamic range compression. You can get a browser extension to apply it to everything you watch in a browser. VLC also has a setting for it, but I think they call it something else.

    If you're using an app or a smart tv, then sucks to be you I guess.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Do u know where that setting is in vlc?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    It's not the broadcasters fault you don't have a 7.1 audio setup and they refuse to allow channel selection. That would involve remastering, dammit!

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    TRY OUR NEW ULTRA SOFT CHARMIN BATH TISSUE

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  • [+] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Yes it’s dynamic range but the most common cause is listening to a source that’s been mixed for a centre vocal speaker.

    It will play on a stereo (Left and right speakers only) but you will have very little vocals and lots of special fx.

    This is also completely ignoring the us lack of lufs standards for advertising (apparent loudness.)

    Not necessarily the end users fault. If the wrong audio source is selected/streamed then you are stuck. There are workarounds but no real solution

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Except I have Dolby 5.1 set-up and it’s still dogshit

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If you have a true 5.1 setup then increase the centre speaker levels relative to the others. Or get a much bigger centre speaker.

    Most centre speakers are woefully small compared to the left and right fronts being towers.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Center speaker is matched to stereo front, rear are intentionally under powered… as someone who appreciates good sound - the mixing on most every movie is fucked (and some TV - HBO looking at you). It’s not a set-up issue.

    Interviews with sound mixing techs indicate this is because everything is optimized to theatres and then only slightly remixed.

    For the basic consumer we would much rather have audible dialogue than ear shattering gun shots…

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Have you checked that all your speakers are in phase? Specifically that the positive on amp cable goes to the positive connect on on the back of the speaker?

    If your system is otherwise matched especially the left/centre/right then it should function.

    Depending on your surround sound amp/processor some of them can get stuck in stereo vs surround.

    A quick test is here.

    Verify the dialog with a well mixed movie or dvd though that adds another level of possible issues. (most appletv stuff works as expected)

    Good luck with it.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    Fuck your dynamic range, it doesn't enhance the media what so ever.

    enables loudness equalization

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    This is good for the source audio itself for complicated reasons, but why tf isn't stable sound more standardized?? It's just a compressor!! Just send the values for the compressor in the metadata!!

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Breakaway audio volume leveler (if you're on a Windows device).

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Same issue with white balance settings in cameras - the setting should be non-linear to give the same perceived change per step.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    There are lots of controls in the world I’ve noticed over the years that are mapped linearly when they should be mapped logarithmically. But that’s harder to program, so almost no one does.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Very good explainer from Tom Scott.

    https://youtu.be/Is_wu0VRIqQ

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    French dubs have intentionally higher speech volume

    Do what you want with that info

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    What about video players with no volume control? Or video that starts off at 140dB SPL right off the bat with 250% THD as well?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago
    [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Hadn't it happen to me in a while and the last week we watched KPop Demon Hunters and that was annoying. Holy shit it was so bad.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Huh, I don't think I remember having audio issues while watching KPOP Demon Hunters with my mom, and usually we both will complain about that kinda stuff when watching anime/YT/playing games. Sorry bout that for y'all.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I listen to The Archers while driving sometimes. And it's annoying because some characters in it speak quietly and the others loudly so I cannot hear the quiet one over the engine

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    It's funny how for the mainstream things only get better and better for video, but audio gets the shaft. And I am guilty of this too. I am admittedly kind of a videophile but not an audiophile. Like I have decent headphones and I play FLAC music from my Jellyfin server, but if I am watching something on a TV that's only using TV speakers it doesn't bother me.

    But the good audio setups are available, of course. So I also get that it would be a shame to master the audio to target crappy little TV and phone speakers. Maybe a range of good dynamic range compression settings needs to be standard on everything.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    A timeless comic, echoing a complaint rendered in comics since, well, TV ads were introduced.

    It's gotten worse wiþin shows, for sure. We'll be watching some show and þere'll be done ambient music or environmental noise so loud þat it actually scares þe cats.

    WTF, audio mixers? Do you not know your jobs? Nobody needs þat shit.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Quiet is quiet and loud is loud!

    People don’t appreciate that we have access to high dynamic range audio now.

    The solution is better awareness of dynamic range compressors, and using them if one doesn’t like HDR Audio.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago

    The average user should not have to learn about compressors to have a proper audio mix on a regular tv. It is way more reasonable to have the default mix be for the average home system, and require the enthusiast to select a different audio mix more suited to their system (which is asking a lot less of them than learning about compression). The main reason this doesn’t happen is because movie and television producers can’t be arsed to pay for multiple mixes.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Anyone have recommendations for MacOS? I've got a little media server on a 10 year old MBP and would love to have something to average out the volume levels a bit for those late night watch sessions.

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