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LinkedIn removes hate speech protections for transgender individuals (opentermsarchive.org)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/antisocialmedia@piefed.social
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[–] 20 points 1 year ago (5 children)

U.S.-owned technology companies can no longer be trusted.

Unfortunately, this includes Microsoft and Apple.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Name a corporation you can trust?

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Costco. They're not perfect, but they're really very good

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean, this was sort of a rhetorical question, but in case it wasn't clear before, I believe trusting a corporation is a silly thing to do.

    No one that works at Costco is looking out for you, and if an employee did, that would likely mean not following the instructions they are given by the corporation.

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    • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    not that they were enforcing it in the first place

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    [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    @rimu If there's any way to become even less relevant, LinkedIn has tried it.

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    • 67 comments in c/linkedinlunatics@sh.itjust.works view that post
    [–] 39 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    LinkedIn is for fuckbois

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    • [–] 34 points 1 year ago

    Just a matter of time before they start banning expressions of solidarity on the grounds that it is NSFW

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    [–] 28 points 1 year ago

    I dk how misgendering and dead naming is not considered bullying in general. Cis ppl dont like being actively called the wrong gender or wrong name either. These protections help everyone.

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    [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    Glad i deleted my linkedin...

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    [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    For some of us out of loop - what is deadnaming?

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Using the trans person's forename, despite them going by their preferred name

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Just want to point out that oftentimes it's not just their preferred name—it's their new actual legal name

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I don’t understand what is so hard about this? I have to respect people’s magic stories that they are willing to kill over. Why can’t you accept someone’s legally changed identity? I see no difference.

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    • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    This made me delete my LinkedIn app, prime material as it was for making Lemmy posts

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    [+] -70 points 1 year ago* (57 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Toxic positivity is so different than just freely allowing people to be complete bigoted assholes I have to assume you’re missing it this much on purpose

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    The mask fell off when he said dead naming wasn't hate speech

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  • [+] -31 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Being "complete bigoted assholes" are how we, as a society keep errant members in check. It's a feature of the tribalism inherent in humanity. Scoffing at someone being a thief, for example - we don't consider that "bigoted", only because we all mostly agree that it's bad.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Insanely stupid lemmoid response id expect nothing less from this shithole

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  • [+] -17 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Reality is often a shithole, I agree. But we all gotta live in it. Utopian dreams are just that...dreams. Time to wake up.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    great! the world is a shithole because of assholes, so let’s just all be assholes… what an asshole self-fulfilling thing to say

    personally, i prefer to leave the world a better place than what i found it, and people better off for my presence in it

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    YOU don't have to be an asshole. That's your decision.

    It's when you start making the decision for OTHERS that you become the asshole yourself. You don't get to police speech. If I want to call you Blinky the fucking ass-clown, I can. It's the moment where you step over the line and determine what other people are allowed to say that you become the asshole. Enough of you utopian dickheads trying to nice-wash the internet.

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  • [–] 42 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Misgendering, deadnaming, and broadly "it's just bullying get over it" type speech leads to suicides particularly by younger people. The problem has multiple fronts: people need support to get them through the toughest times, thick skin to keep the day to day manageable, and social spaces need some degree of checks to keep from going full toxic

    Personally I don't mind being deadname or misgendered I think it's funny. I'm a survivor bias though I've made it to my thirties being unphased. Other people who used to be around me who couldn't handle the aggressions did not make it to their thirties. One of my oldest friends attempted suicide four times that I know of over this type of speech being directed at them. They're only alive right now because they were lucky enough to keep being pulled back from death until they could grow that thicker skin you're talking about

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (11 children)

    Misgendering, deadnaming, and broadly “it’s just bullying get over it” type speech leads to suicides particularly by younger people.

    How do you reconcile this assertion with the fact that bullying was inarguably more widespread before 2008 than it has been since then, and yet:

    Researchers at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) found that rates of preteen suicide (ages 8-12) have been increasing by approximately 8% annually since 2008.

    Also, trans men are generally much more likely to convincingly 'pass' than trans women (and trans people who 'pass' are bullied less, by simple virtue of the fact that fewer people are able to even identify them as trans), and yet:

    Female preteens had a disproportionate increase in suicide rate compared to male preteens.

    Something isn't adding up here, no?

    Unfortunately I can't find it again, because it was such an interesting and surprising bit of data, but I read a study some years ago that split trans people up into three categories, and compared the rate of suicide among them:

    1. in the closet
    2. out, and reported being supported overall by their community/peers after coming out
    3. out, and reported being unsupported overall by their community/peers after coming out

    If you had to guess which of the three categories had the lowest suicide rate, I bet it'd be #2, right? So did I, but actually, the group with the least suicidality was #1! The implication that never coming out at all makes a trans person less likely to take their life than coming out to people who accept and support them was stunning, but there it was, in black and white. So what does that mean, exactly?

    I don't know, but this is definitely a more complex issue than it appears on the surface, to most people.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    So you've used the word 'inarguably' there, which I take as a challenge.
    Bullying is not less widespread than it was before 2008. Anecdotally, I have two kids in high school and bullying is rife, it seems the environment in school is exactly as it was 30 years ago. This is the general consensus between myself, other parents and education/healthcare professionals that I've spoken to.
    Less anecdotally, cyber bullying is now a thing. Kids can no longer escape their bullies by leaving school. This means that bullying is now immeasurably worse than pre-2008, which is exactly converse to your assertion, and may also be part of the cause of rising suicide rates. Social media's insipid ability to reach into the same "safe" spaces with advertising-driven beauty and masculinity standards has a lot to answer for there as well, which also explains the diverging figures along gender lines.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Bullying is not less widespread than it was before 2008. Anecdotally, I have two kids in high school and bullying is rife, it seems the environment in school is exactly as it was 30 years ago. This is the general consensus between myself, other parents and education/healthcare professionals that I’ve spoken to.

    Well, here is some data I found that contradicts that, and supports my assertion, after doing a quick search:

    In 2021–22, about 19 percent of students ages 12–18 reported being bullied during school, which was lower than the percentage who reported this in 2010–11 (28 percent).

    The years don't line up absolutely perfectly, but 28% to 19% in a post-2008 ~10 year period is a 32% drop, if I did my math correctly.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Sources, or are you just pulling all of that out of your ass?

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    You may want to try pulling your glasses out of your ass and actually reading what I wrote.

    I cited the source I used for the first part (the two quoted bits), and prefaced the thing I didn't have a source for (forgive me for not meticulously recording the source of every single interesting thing I read forevermore) by saying straight-up that I didn't, before even saying what it said.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    Unfortunately I can’t find it again, because it was such an interesting and surprising bit of data, but I read a study some years ago that split trans people up into three categories, and compared the rate of suicide among them:

    in the closet out, and reported being supported overall by their community/peers after coming out out, and reported being unsupported overall by their community/peers after coming out

    I’m referring to this horseshit, you deceptive transphobic dumbass.

    Lets look at what I can find:

    Further, consistent with minority stress theory, other quantitative and qualitative studies with trans participants have also identified some protective factors for suicidality, namely social support, transitioning, and resilience (McCann et al., 2021; McNeil et al., 2017; Moody et al., 2015). The qualitative study of written responses to open-ended online questions from 133 trans adults—with and without histories of suicidality—in Canada conducted by Moody et al. (2015) identified protective experiences for trans individuals such as self-acceptance, coping skills, and individual reasons for living. Thus, the existing literature suggests that individual, social, and structural factors are relevant for understanding suicide risk and prevention in the trans community.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    So you're referring to the bit that I explicitly stated right at the top, that I didn't readily have a source link for?

    You're doubling down on looking foolish by angrily calling me deceptive while showing proof that I wasn't.

    Also, what you linked doesn't contradict the particular data point I emphasized in what I read, as it doesn't compare suicidality between closeted and out trans people; it only compares the second and third groups I mentioned in my comment.

    When it comes to the topics where there is overlap, my remembered source agrees with what you linked: that for trans people who are out, support is, obviously, going to reduce suicidality more than than lack of support.

    The interesting/unexpected data point was that the rate was lower among trans people who never come out, than for either subset of trans people who have come out.

    Calling me transphobic for mentioning that I read something that contradicts a commonly-held assumption, is toxic and anti-intellectual. If you want to disregard it because I can't back it up, that's perfectly understandable (hence my prefaced disclaimer, in the first place!), but there's no call for the hostility, at all. Relax.

    As for me, I know what I read, and I'm confident I'm remembering it properly too because, guess what, it surprised me too, like I said! That's what made it stick with me for years, despite not having immediately meticulously recorded where I read it.

    EDIT: You may also note that I drew literally ZERO conclusions based on said data point, only remarking on the apparent complexity it introduces to the topic.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You have a profound lack of critical thinking skills.

    Here's what you wrote:

    Unfortunately I can’t find it again, because it was such an interesting and surprising bit of data, but I read a study some years ago that split trans people up into three categories, and compared the rate of suicide among them:

    1. in the closet
    2. out, and reported being supported overall by their community/peers after coming out
    3. out, and reported being unsupported overall by their community/peers after coming out

    If you had to guess which of the three categories had the lowest suicide rate, I bet it’d be #2, right? So did I, but actually, the group with the least suicidality was #1! The implication that never coming out at all makes a trans person less likely to take their life than coming out to people who accept and support them was stunning, but there it was, in black and white. So what does that mean, exactly?

    What this means is that you're misremembering some study, are quoting a right wing hit piece, or are just pulling shit out of your ass. And it means you have a profound lack of critical thinking skills.

    Just think about for a second. Actually THINK about it man!

    How in the world are you going to have a study with any kind of statistical reliability, when you are polling trans people WHO ARE IN THE FUCKING CLOSET??!!

    You do understand what those words mean, do you not? You're talking about people who are not out. You're talking about people who are not publicly out as trans. So obviously you can't poll these people when trying to survey the trans population. At best you can just randomly poll the population and ask random people if they're trans. But that method never works for small minority groups, as if even 1% of cis people lie on the survey and claim to be trans just to fuck with the results, the fake trans people will out number the real trans people in the survey.

    Actually THINK about what drivel you are writing. How the hell can you make any claim about trans people that are in the closet? By definition, such people are indistinguishable from the larger cis population.

    This is why I know that you're pulling this stuff right out of your ass. You're making a claim that is completely nonsensical.

    You have failed at basic fundamental critical thinking.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    What this means is that you’re misremembering some study, are quoting a right wing hit piece, or are just pulling shit out of your ass.

    Whatever fantasy lets you feel like you're the superior being, I guess. But actual good faith discussion, you clearly have no interest in, so I'll leave you to your fuming.

    Hope you improve.

    By the way, re

    How in the world are you going to have a study with any kind of statistical reliability, when you are polling trans people WHO ARE IN THE FUCKING CLOSET??!!

    You do understand what those words mean, do you not? You’re talking about people who are not out. You’re talking about people who are not publicly out as trans. So obviously you can’t poll these people when trying to survey the trans population.

    Did it ever occur to you that trans people who are now out can share their experiences from before they were out? This is like saying you can't learn anything about childhood experiences by talking to adults.

    "Just think about for a second. Actually THINK about it man!"

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No study on Earth would be published using such a flawed methodology. You can't just retrospectively study people's past opinions like that, compared them to current trans people, and expect any kind of reliability. No one would approve a study design like that. You're full of it.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    You are just a bad person.

    You can be in favor of people have a thick skin and that people shouldn't be allowed to be assholes.

    It is a bit like self-defense. It is probably for the better if people knew self-defense but that is no reason to excuse violent aggressors.

    Honestly, you should be ashamed of that opinion and keep it to yourself.

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  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago (6 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You sound quite butthurt over being called a bad person. Maybe you should get a thicker skin. Have a good one.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Notice that none of you have downvotes from me? I think maybe you might misunderstand who's butthurt here.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I think I have to agree with you on this one. There was a time where being as fucking inbred as you are IRL would’ve easily cost you five of your front teeth on a good day, and months in traction on a bad day.

    Yet here you are, being a fucking poster child warning against sexual relationships between family members, and whatever teeth you have are left unscathed for it.

    What a time to be alive, eh?

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I almost agree with you, but here's where I don't.

    Trans rights are based and cool and Misgendering and Deadnaming are definitely hatespeech.

    It's like telling a black man to go pick cotton. You're saying they aren't valid beyond the roles society deemed appropriate for them in ye olden days.

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  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    It’s absolutely nothing like alluding to the hundreds of years of slavery and oppression of black people in America, that’s a wild comparison.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    do you want to explain why not?

    the self harm rate for trans people is relatively huge, so the mental health toll on them is clearly enormous… just because they’ve only recently felt strong enough to start fighting for their rights doesn’t mean trans people started to exist recently… trans people have always existed, and just lived in anguish and shut up about it because they didn’t have the collective words to describe their experience

    nobody is saying they’re comparable - the experience of black people in america is completely different to the experience of trans people

    but let’s not say that either is worse than the other: both have suffered hugely for long periods of history, and both continue to suffer

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    First of all, yes someone is comparing them, namely the person I responded to who said:

    It’s like telling a black man to go pick cotton

    Secondly, you’re wildly out of touch and in deep in your trans bubble if you think this is appropriate or comparable in anyway.

    Black people were tortured, sold and the women were raped by the house master. They were starved, beaten and had their freedom literally owned by another person whose motivation was to work them to the bone.

    You think getting called she when you really want to be a he is even in the same universe of suffering?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    yes someone is comparing them

    that’s an analogy; not a direct comparison… they share the property that they are both demeaning to a minority group for some inherent properly of the group… the experiences are not being compared; simply the meaning behind the expression

    you’re wildly out of touch and in deep in your trans bubble

    perhaps you just don’t hang around enough trans people to understand their experiences

    racism was still racism in the 50s - it doesn’t matter that it was considered less morally reprehensible back then by the majority… morality of the majority lags behind morality of minorities

    Black people were tortured, sold and the women were raped by the house master

    deadnaming is at least a form of bullying, if not psychological torture… and if you don’t think that a lot of trans people have experiences in their lives that are at least bordering on rape (sexual acts they did just to fit in; not because they wanted or enjoyed them - in a similar way to not feeling like consent can be withdrawn… again, analogy here not comparison) then i refer you to point 2: perhaps you just don’t hang around enough trans people to understand their experiences

    comparable experiences? no; they’re too different to be comparable…

    You think getting called she when you really want to be a he is even in the same universe of suffering?

    again, i refer you to the suicide rate of trans people to argue that yes, i do: mental health is just as important as physical health no matter how much you try and dismiss it

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    because I've been on the internet since I was 14 and have had to deal with the worst of it since day 1.

    “The internet made me who I am.” I’m going to help grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your actions, little one. From the moment you discovered the internet, you could’ve decided at any time to stop being on it. Congratulations, you’re the result of your own decisions.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    I think that's a bit far. "Fat" can cause eating disorders. "Ugly" can cause low self esteem. Dunno if "gay" makes people LGBTQ. Deadnaming is essentially doxxing, although can cause distress if that old name is related to trauma.

    Pretty rubbish take IMO.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Dunno if "gay" makes people LGBTQ

    calling people gay as a slur implies that it’s a bad thing to be avoided… when kids start to think they might be gay, if it’s had trauma and bullying attached it absolutely leads to self hatred

    and that’s a self-reinforcing cycle

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  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    That's the point you know. Kids insulting one another is to help them build defenses against the real world. I think this is like psychology 101 stuff. It's natural to do, and does - in fact - help children grow.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    But the lesson is "it's not cool to call your friends fat" and "you can call out your friends if they're being mean" or even "avoid people who make you feel bad". You clearly got the wrong message here.

    There are shitty people and we have to deal with that, but that doesn't make these people any less shitty. We know how social consequences work, and you think you know as well, but why you gotta constantly take the shitty people's side here? Unless... Hmmm... 🤔

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago

    but why you gotta constantly take the shitty people's side here? Unless... Hmmm... 🤔

    But my viewpoint is probably skewed as fuck, because I've been on the internet since I was 14 and have had to deal with the worst of it since day 1.

    It's almost like you can't read.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    It's natural to do, and does - in fact - help children grow.

    Do we have evidence for that?

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    • 14 comments in c/lgbtq_plus@lemmy.blahaj.zone view that post
    [–] 65 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    microsoft continues to suck

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    • [–] 47 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What do LinkedIn think that they’re achieving by upsetting people?

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    • [–] 38 points 1 year ago

    Microsoft should now be banned from all further pride events.

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    [–] 27 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Another one bites the dust, may their stock prices crash and may their site become unused and taken down.

    So, when are we getting the fediverse alternative to linkedin where we'll be protected?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    It would be a cool job being paid by donations in making an inclusive decentralized open-source alternative that surpasses Xing. It would be very useful for cooperatives organizing.

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    • [–] 23 points 1 year ago

    This is why vigilantes like Luigi Mangione are celebrated. If I ever saw someone walking towards my building with a look of purpose and a gun, I’d hold the door open for them.

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    [–] 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    there really isn't a future for USD culture, they're going to lash out and cannibalize themselves until they have to be put down by international effort

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    • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    If I were you, I’d refrain myself from using it further.

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    [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    it also has its documentation page about using gender pronouns blank.

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    [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Throwing more vulnerable people under the bus for…what? Performative cruelty to appease a hateful government run by the dumbest bully from the back of the middle school portable.

    The department of ed was making propaganda posts that read like a belligerent middle schooler a while back going on about things being woke.

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