I'm surprised that electricity use is still at 1990 levels.
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to anyone interested, i suggest taking some time browsing through live data, it is quite cool...
https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/

They phased out nuclear after Fukushima because they were worried that all the tsunamis Germany has may also trigger hyper-specific vulnerabilities in their reactor designs.
At least they got use out of their reactors for a while. Austria went and built one and then decided to just never turn it on.
I've never understood the anti-nuclear movement. Let's give up one of the cleanest and most efficient ways to generate energy because reasons?
Nuclear was the best solution in the 70s. If we had built all the plants then, we wouldn't be in our current mess.
Today, the economics don't make any sense. Energy from a fission plant is much more expensive than from renewables+storage, and nuclear plants that are operating often have to be curtailed in summer (when energy need is high) due to a lack of cooling water. The timeline to build a new plant is decades - far too late to make a difference if we started now.
There would also have to be global trust for literally every country to be operating multiple nuclear reactors, which does not exist today and likely never will. The odds that the US simply allows most of Sub-Saharan Africa - currently ruled by a set of characters ranging from (in the State Department's view) dictators to Jihadists - operational control over advanced nuclear technology do not look very strong.
I'm typically pro-nuclear, but there are legitimate problems with it:
- Waste disposal - We STILL haven't made a good solution for storing nuclear waste in most places.
- Cost overruns - Nuclear projects almost always run over their budgets by 10-30% or more.
That said, I'm of the opinion that it should be a part of our energy mix, given it's reliability in producing consistent power. I think we should prioritize wind and solar, but for our overnight and non-windy days, nuclear is a great way to fill the gap.
I saw a skit from wkuk saying that if some emergency made it impossible for the reactors to be tended to (in the skit is was societal collapse) they would melt down.
Idk how true this is but if true it be a risky vulnerability
To my knowledge, modern nuclear plants are designed to fail safely if faults are detected, but prolonged periods without staff monitoring the facility could be more risky. This one automatically regulates itself, and shuts down if any parameters are out of range, waiting for operator intervention to bring it back up. Every nuclear plant designer since Chernobyl has been very keen on safety.
nuclear is a great way to fill the gap
Battery storage is inexpensive and getting less expensive every year now that non-American companies are doing R&D. America is stuck in fossil fuels and nuclear because corporate propaganda has indoctrinated too many people.
Really? I think its pretty simple.
It still requires mining. It requires a plan to dispose of waste (which only ONE country actually has). There are over 600 mines that are in need of remediation around the world that haven't been accomplished, with at least a hundred waste sites that are still not remediated.
Which leads to the single best reason to avoid nuclear: Nobody is responsible enough yet. In most countries that can afford to do it, it will go to the lowest bidder to operate and run and we can see that governments and wars come and go. Humans are shit at being responsible, particularly when money or power is dangled in front of them.
Solar is the cheapest and cleanest form of energy with the most recyclable materials.
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Nuclear costs too much. Much much more than anything else.
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It isn't clean. Since when is radioactive disposal considered a clean activity?
That's two reasons. The first one is the real reason.
- What exactly do you mean by the use of the word efficient?
I’ve never understood the anti-nuclear movement. Let’s give up one of the cleanest and most efficient ways to generate energy because reasons?
I don't support fission because I don't like paying comically high amounts of electricity. I support power options because they're the most practical, not because I get some weird retro-futuristic "our friend the atom" sexual kick out of it.
I know a lot of people nowadays talk about nuclear as this abundant energy source which is much cleaner than fossil fuels but this is exactly what was being said around the 70s, then we had two huge nuclear disasters. There’s two generations here that have starkly different views of nuclear energy.
The two huge nuclear disasters in question: Unreasonable demands of management and a lack of safety protocol.
We've already accepted the downsides: we're all held at gunpoint by thousands of nuclear missiles on a daily basis for the past 5 decades and yet there seems to be more people worried about nuclear power than that. We could just as well take advantage of the upside as well.
Different but wrong. I am always interested to know what people's guesses are for the total number of deaths caused by Chernobyl, because it's remarkably low in my opinion. It's by far the safest form of energy generation. Yes, even safer than wind power... why? Simply because wind is a very energy un-dense source of energy so you need to do a lot of construction to obtain it, and construction is a somewhat dangerous job - there'll be some small number of people who fall off wind turbines (or off rooves while installing solar panels, or whatever) and the huge number of turbines works out as swamping the small number of nuclear plants and tiny number of deadly nuclear disasters.
Different but wrong. I am always interested to know what people’s guesses are for the total number of deaths caused by Chernobyl, because it’s remarkably low in my opinion.
There were roughly 350,000 innocent human beings who had to abandon their homes due to Chernobyl. The death total was only so low because hundreds of thousands of people had to literally flee for their lives.
If anti-nuclear people knew anything about nuclear power, they wouldn't be anti-nuclear. The Chernobyl powerplant was an RMBK reactor, completely different in structure than other nuclear powerplants. The fossil fuel industry loves misguided opposition against nuclear energy. Read about the RMBK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBMK
You support nuclear for psychological reasons, not for technological reasons. It gives you a sense of superiority over your fellow human beings. The real reason nuclear is a dead technology is that it's simply not cost competitive with renewables and batteries, but you're here pretending that it's a bunch of scared superstitious ignorant environmentalists that are dragging it down. THOSE common fools just don't know the science. THOSE morons just aren't rational actors like you are. THEY are just to lazy to read about nuclear plant designs.
You're engaged in a comforting form of self-delusion. The actual barriers to nuclear have nothing to do with people just being irrationally afraid of fission. But you ignore this because it gives you a sense of intellectual superiority.
You support nuclear for psychological rather than technological reasons. Fission is just your sports team.
Ask them how many people died at Fukushima
That's not what that article says
jdr is right.
The article says "1" and you said "One".
The text of the article is what I looked at, where they're a lot less definite.
The 2202 deaths claim is from this article.
If you don't trust that news site, directly in the article to the left of the info box:
As of 27 February 2017, the Fukushima prefecture government counted 2,129 "disaster-related deaths" in the prefecture.
That claim is supported by one government report, two scientific papers and one news site.
And the nuclear lobby likes people like you.
Where would Germany get uranium from, by the way?
It’s ironic, how quickly three mile island, Chernobyl and Fukushima are struck from collective memory. I’m pretty relaxed about nuclear energy though: I will probably be dead and buried by the time these reactors would go life. And young men now have the right to repeat their grandfathers’ mistakes, it’s their world, and their taxmoney. That doesn’t mean I won’t join the protests, should a reactor be planned within 300 miles from my home, but I would protest in a relaxed sort of way, can of beer, chitchat, veggie hotdogs, catching a bit of sun.
3 Mile Island was an overblown media sensation. Chernobyl was a poorly designed and poorly maintained facility doing a live stress controlled by complete morons that literally could not have happened in the next generation reactor design. Fukushima took a literal force of nature to cause an issue and even then it was originally designed to handle it but cost cutting during construction moved the backup power source too close to the water.
Meanwhile the current generation reactors, even discounting SMR, are designed to make those failure modes physically impossible. The ultra-modern SMR designs are already producing commercial power in China with North America following suit in the next 36 months or so.
but cost cutting during construction
Welcome to the best reason to avoid nuclear. People will always cut costs.
Yeah, this is the factor that has me more negative on nuclear power than positive, even though I believe it can be one of the safest ways to generate a lot of power, that depends on people not cutting corners.
They are also a pretty big liability during military conflicts, especially if it's with a far away enemy that isn't worried about the local fallout from a strike.
For anyone interested in the current practical state of nuclear energy, the Decouple podcast is a pretty good listen.
Well, USA, uk, China, France etc also do 😝 both graph AND title are clickbait.
What? How is it clickbait? The title explains exactly what the graph displays. How did this offend you?



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