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[–] 122 points 23 hours ago (32 children)

God, I hate that the fight for democracy is essentially continuously trying to explain reality to the dumbest people to have ever lived, and hoping that they learn something.

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  • [–] 8 points 23 hours ago (27 children)

    If you've got a better way of doing things, we're all ears.

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  • [–] 17 points 22 hours ago (5 children)

    Democracy but only I can vote.

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  • [–] 1 point 22 hours ago (3 children)

    Aw man, do I gotta explain the reality of that suggestion to you?

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  • [–] 5 points 12 hours ago

    I mean, a really good start would be to pump as much money as possible into education and anti-poverty initiatives. Of course, the people who would oppose that are the dumbest people on the planet, so we're kind of back to square 1.

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  • [+] -6 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (19 children)

    Democracy but you gotta pass an IQ test threshold to vote/run?
    I really wonder what's the advantage of having stupid people voting/running besides virtue signaling you believe in equality (and having whole society pay for it, because your ego being massaged is more important than the common good).

    edit: Not gonna individually reply. ALL of you seem to not know the difference between literacy, knowledge, wealth, class and spatial, abstract, cognitive, matrix reasoning, etc (not even having a PhD or being able to score high in traditional education has anything to do with it), and it seems like years of Hollywood got you all believing in existence of "evil genius" and such, but you really should read about gifted people, high IQ, and moral reasoning. It's the failure of moral reasoning, i.e. being dumb as fuck, that creates conservatism.
    And about the argument of "selfish smart person" seeking political power, these thrive on the stupid people, that's why you need smart voters. Duh.

    Now keep repeating in front of the mirror: "It's for society's own benefit that its most inept should guide it", and check how you look saying it. Fight for your right to be governed by the stupid!

    ps: So far, no one managed to point the advantage of having people with low cognitive capability deciding society's direction. You just said you don't like the idea of it being decided by people with higher cognition.

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  • [–] 7 points 20 hours ago

    First off because "IQ tests" don't test for brainworms. There's plenty of people who possess the mental capacity to pass a test like that, but who use that brainpower to come up with creative ways to defend wrong ideas rather than thinking critically. This is a large part of why IQ tests are meaningless, because even if they were capable of accurately assessing raw brainpower, they're certainly not capable of assessing how you choose to use that brainpower.

    If you make a test that does test for brainworms then you have the question of who or what body decides what's a brainworm, and at that point you might as well just give that body dictatorial control. There's no possible way to do that in a remotely objective fashion, the body could easily just say, "Capitalism is obviously right so anyone who doesn't agree with it should be barred from voting." Or, if it were me, I might decide that anyone who thinks that people having low IQs is the problem with our political systems is, themself, obviously unqualified.

    Really, it's not that different from the Catholic Church gathering together a bunch of highly educated scholars behind closed doors to debate what they thought made sense and then trying to enforce that on everyone. At least way back then, they had the justification that most of the population was fully illiterate.

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  • [–] 16 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (6 children)

    I'm going to address only the last part: what is the value of having stupid people vote.

    The value in allowing stupid people to vote is that your opposition can't change the definition of "stupid" to include only you and your friends.

    The law is a blunt instrument. If we enshrine in law the power for Congress to deprive people of their vote, we have agreed that depriving people "for the right reasons" is justification for doing so, and now the question simply becomes "can you convince people this is a good reason to deprive people of their ability to vote".

    We already have this with Felons. They are a miniscule percent of the population though, so it cannot be abused to win an election. It's bad enough the precedent kind of already exists. Expanding it would be self destructive

    EDIT: Because it's been brought up, felons who cannot vote make up 1.1% of the US population.

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  • [–] 4 points 17 hours ago* (5 children)

    We already have this with Felons. They are a miniscule percent of the population though

    Convicted felons make up almost 8% of the voting age population. That is not a "minuscule" percent. It's enough to have changed 2/3 of all presidential elections.

    so it cannot be abused to win an election

    It is certainly actively being used to suppress Democrat power in general, and Black voting power specifically.

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  • [–] 4 points 16 hours ago* (4 children)

    You are wildly wrong.

    1.1% of the population cannot vote due to felony conviction.

    And those people are distributed across the political spectrum just like any other demographic.

    If you're going to quote bullshit stats, at least post a link to some fringe blog to back it up sort of

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  • [–] -3 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

    You are too ignorant to be that smug.

    Or is it just racism? Who doesn't know that Black people are wildly overrepresented in the prison population? Or that Black people overwhelmingly vote Democrat? Those are really basic facts.

    The 1.1% you quote, specifically only refers to the non Black population. It's 5%-10% of the Black population. Which ends up being 2% of the total population of the country. Though it varies wildly from state to state. In some states it is as high as 6% of the total population.

    That is by no means insignificant.

    https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/locked-out-2024-four-million-denied-voting-rights-due-to-a-felony-conviction//

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  • [–] 6 points 15 hours ago* (2 children)

    I got my numbers from the exact same source. Your own link contradicts you. 4 million is not 2% of the US pop. 4 million is 1.1% of the population.

    I never said they were split 50/50. I said they were distributed.

    Meaning it's not "four million votes for Democrats"

    And fuck you for assuming my ethics. I think the fact that felons can't vote is absolutely immoral. Nobody should be deprived of their vote.

    But I don't lie about statistics.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 hours ago (1 child)

    In 2024, an estimated 4 million Americans, representing 1.7% of the voting-age population, will be ineligible to vote.

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  • [–] 1 point 29 minutes ago*

    2024

    I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it's 2026 now and our population is growing, not shrinking

    And that 4m number is down from their 2022 report (4.4m), so you can't tell me the felon population has grown with the US population

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  • [–] 4 points 16 hours ago (1 child)

    Democracy but you gotta pass an IQ test threshold to vote/run?

    Dude, they already tried that in US. Learn some history.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 hours ago*
  • [–] 3 points 19 hours ago

    The problem with intelligence requirements is two-fold.

    First, intelligence is difficult to quantify. I often hear that IQ tests are unreliable or only test for certain areas of what could be called intelligence.

    Second, such requirements would instantly become politicized and designed to prevent certain groups from being politically active. This exact thing happened after the US civil war when literacy tests were required and designed specifically to keep black people from being able to vote.

    Additionally, I just don’t know that intelligence is the quality that matters most. A selfish smart person is just going to be good at benefitting themself politically at the expense of others. The focus should be on getting more people politically active who will use their political power to benefit others beyond themselves. Of course, that’s probably even more difficult to test for than intelligence.

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  • [–] 2 points 18 hours ago

    I think the better way to do it is to have a test which doesn't test for intelligence (although I agree that it basically does test for intelligence but not explicitly) but for understanding of the topic at hand.

    It's a simple test, it's just one question, "what, if elected, would this person do?" You must be able to identify at least one actual policy of the politician you're voting for. Trump told everyone who he was, and what he would do, and they still voted for him and then acted all surprised. Because they're total exposure to his policies was whatever they read on Facebook which was actually not what he said.

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  • [–] 1 point 12 hours ago (3 children)

    Do yourself a favor and read the book 'Starship Troopers.'

    The author has a ball playing with political ideas. His take is that after WW3 [a limited nuclear was, not an all out holocaust] angry veterans returned home and saw anarchy. They united and cleaned up the baddies, then enshrined the idea that only veterans would be allowed to vote. Centuries later, anyone, no matter how physically weak can join the military and do a term of service and get full citizenship. It's explicitly stated that most of the army is 'make work,' an extended boot camp with no actual fighting involved. You just have to earn your vote.

    Another fun author is Ross Thomas. Washington reporter turned crime novelist, his books always have a political slant. 'The Fools In Town Are On Our Side' is about a political fixer whose plan to clean up a small city is to make it 'so corrupt even the pimps will vote for reform'

    https://bookshop.org/beta-search?bkshp-astro=t&keywords=ross+thomas

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  • [–] 1 point 6 hours ago (2 children)

    Amazing that you find any correlation.

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  • [–] 150 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    And we come back to Ronald Reagan.

    Reagan gutted the FCC. There used to be rules restricting the number of TV/radio stations one company could own. There used to be a Fairness Doctrine that gave equal time to anyone who opposed an editorial.

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  • [–] 56 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    There are still roots of this with Nixon. He was able to walk away with his indiscretions. Then we got Fox News.

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  • [–] 23 points 23 hours ago

    Back in the day, after Ford pardoned Nixon, there were two kinds of folks.

    Most of the Nixon haters were willing to accept his resignation. Very few people at that time were ready to see an American President on trial, let alone behind bars.

    Nixon's pals looked at everything and started plotting to make sure none of them would ever be treated like that.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 day ago (7 children)

    Other actors creating a misinformation campaign to confuse the electorate. We have seen what Fox news and CNN and the 25 hour news channels have done in the 90s and amplified it and democratized it and made it freely accessible to everyone with an internet connection. Grandma never stood a chance against it.

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  • [–] [S] 31 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    This is true, but it’s also true that Cambridge Analytica specifically utilized military psychological operations tactics to weaponize messaging via social media.

    Facepals et. al. are more virulent and sadistic than they would have been without evil manipulation.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 day ago* (2 children)

    IDK who Cambridge Analytics is, but since the 1950s the US advertising industry started using military techniques to induce feelings of inadequacy, isolation and hopelessness in viewers, offering products as cures. People want to blame the epidemic of depression on their chosen modern circumstance du jour, but it really comes from a lifetime of conditioning.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 hours ago*

    Cambridge is like combining pysop and public relations along with a huge amount of capital and making a globalized corporate structure to spy on every human in the world. Then using that information to manipulate people's perception for cash and power.

    Just perfectly normal stuff like that.

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  • [–] 24 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

    I don't get it personally. I don't see how they conspiracy-hole this and that, and pretend the most outrageous things, but then supposedly diesel or whatever is the last straw. Decades of being financially fucked into the ground by conservative policy, a decade of But Joe Biden!, and now diesel does it??? Ok I guess.

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  • [–] 18 points 11 hours ago

    It is how human psychology works. Fuel prices are something people are confronted with on a regular bases and they are a direct expensive, easy to understand, in the moment.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 hours ago

    You can’t logic people out of situations they didn’t use logic to get thenselves into in the first place. They based everything on feels, feels that wouldn’t contradict their ideology. And at the upper levels projection took over and “do unto others before they do unto you” became the rule in a power grab.

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  • [–] 22 points 23 hours ago

    The big issue is that the elite have built a propaganda machine that would give Goebbels a raging hard-on.

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  • [–] 21 points 15 hours ago (5 children)

    Aunt clara can't conspiracy theory the oil and gas industry?!?!

    British petroleum invented the carbon footprint and climate change denialism but aunt clara want to talk about little simon's gender...

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  • [–] 7 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

    Has there ever been a more shameless shower of bastards than BP? Talk about choosing the greater evil.

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  • [–] 13 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

    Forgot to also add they killed Mohamed Mozadegh, the first democratically elected president of iran in 1953, a socialist and instead placed the Shah with the help of the british crown and the US gov, If you wonder why Iran has it for europe and the US, this is the tip of the iceberg of why. Plenty of fucked up shit happened later as well.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 hours ago (1 child)

    And then the Iranian Revolution deposed the Shah, and started the current regime. MAGA likes to speak of this incident as the beginning of the Iran War, instead of America's illegal coup in 1953. It's always THEIR fault.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 hours ago

    There are plenty of other events like flight 655 which was a passenger flight from Tehran in the 90s which got shot down by a US navy warship for no reason. 300 innocent people died because of a miscommunicated order by the navy personel.

    To add something; I like to think of Hegel in those moment and the master/servant dialectic,simply; two consciousness find themselves in a shared space. Since they exist for themselves in that first moment and are encountering a plurality for the first time, they enter a conflict. One wins, the other loses and both establish different states of self-consciousness due to this.

    The loser becomes the servant, has to think of himself and his duty to the master, and finds meaning and recognition in the master's eyes. The master does not think of the servant's thoughts, only his own. The servant in the eyes of the master gains meaning, he can revolt, improve, love or hate, whilst the master is not seen, he only is, and this means his self-conception is not anchored, thus the master cannot reach self-consciousness but his servant can as he experiences a higher authority.

    In practical scenarios, this is what explains in my eyes the hubris of the powerful and the optimism of the miserable. The tyrant punishes through anger, because he cannot gain any satisfaction from his state, whilst the one in servitude learns through his opression what resilience is, finds internal freedom and liberation by experiencing the worst. This really resonates with the psychotic crisis/mania the US states are going through right now and the strange self-aware calm the Iranians show whilst being in the most vulnerable position.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 hours ago

    Yep, they're all clincally diagnosable as having presistent, specific delusions.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 day ago

    The OP could never be more true here. It's the alternative reality(ies,) that are the problem here, not our fellow citizens, bar some.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 hours ago

    It's not only the propaganda but it's also the information about all the bad things doesnt make it past their privilege and racism. I know people from where I grew up who dont believe in systemic racism and seem to truly believe the 3 non white people they know have all the same ability to get a job and a bank account and house as they do and think others truly choose to sell drugs or work at McDonald's not that it's their only option.

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  • [–] 26 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

    It's not just that. Those people are also really really stupid. They don't have the ability to connect any dots. They can hear the dumbest shit straight from Trump's mouth and they don't realize he's an idiot. Where they get the news from is a secondary issue. If you forced them to watch CNN all day they would simply not understand any of it. But yes, they can understand diesel getting expensive the same way a dog can understand a stick. When prices fall they will still not understand why it happened and will go back to voting for racists and homophobes.

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  • [–] 20 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

    Actually, they've done studies where they've taken people off Fox News, and had them watch other news, and their political views soften very quickly when exposed to stories they don't hear in the Conservative Propaganda Machine.

    I have a business acquaintance who is still an unapologetic MAGA, and he isn't aware of 75% of the crazy shit that's these people do, and when I tell him, he thinks it's all fake, because Trump and MAGA wouldn't do anything bad. He has Fox News playing next to his desk all day long, every day. It's his sole source of news.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 hours ago

    But if I assume people are stupid, I can just feel angry and superior about it. If it's a solvable problem like education and news reform then I have to do work and also recognize that some of what created my views is the luck of my environment.

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  • [–] 19 points 10 hours ago*

    no it's because they support rape

    no excuses

    they support rape

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  • [–] 9 points 7 hours ago (1 child)

    Is it too much to ask for politicians that are not fraudulent rapist assholes?

    Think how broken our system is to allow this to rise up the top.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 hours ago

    To them it's just "the other side lying" though. The same way trump lies about his opponents and they think it's ok when he lies so they just ignore the other side all together assuming everything they say is lies too.

    Same thing with q annon. They put out all of this obviously false info so when the real info about Epstein came out people would doubt it.

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  • Bullshit. They're illiterate morons who believed whatever was politically convenient.

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  • [+] -6 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

    Fact is, even with such high diesel prices, this wasn't a real tsunami. Blue won, but not by that much. Blue don't have a supermajority in either of the houses. This means that there's a huge portion of the electorate still thinking that they prefer trump over a dem candidate.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 hours ago

    I'm an old guy, who has been paying close attention to elections since the 60s, and I've NEVER seen anything like this election.

    "Blue won, but not by that much." Dude, TEXAS turned BLUE. Not just a little blue, ENTIRELY blue. The only Republican left is Ted Cruz, and that's only because he wasn't up for election. He's in big trouble in 2028. Georgia turned fully blue, too. 75% of the states in the country are ruled by Democrat governors.

    This win was beyond ANYONE'S wildest imaginations. Sure there are a few dummies who think it's a temporary issue, and MAGA will roar back in 2028, but they're delusional. Looks like you're one of them.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 hours ago

    Blue don’t have a supermajority in either of the houses.

    Only about a third of the Senate was up for re-election, and the House is gerrymandered to hell. The will of the voters is unequivocal here.

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