Edit: I made a mistake, I meant to add Mailfence instead of Fastmail, but forgot to update both the icon and text

Hey everyone, here's a follow up to my previous post, I tried to summarize all your suggestions and these are the options I have for the main Proton products I've been using.

I removed Bitwarden based on your feedback (basically they're enshittifying).

I'm not including Tuta, because I dislike their UX/UI, also they seem to not apply their LLM policy to their own devs.

I'm not including Mullvlad, because of one of the founder's donation to a far right political party in Sweden, said founder has a blog post to justify this, which links to another blog post where he claims to be a libertarian anarchist which is just another word for Ancaps which is a dealbreaker for me.

A lot of people recommended using one's own domain for email stuff, I forgot to mention I do have a custom domain, which will make migrating a lot easier indeed. Just need to update my accounts credentials.

Let me know what you think!

all 63 comments

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[–] 10 points 14 hours ago (1 child)

KeePass can do TOTP, it's better to have a separate database for those for obvious reasons, though.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 hours ago (4 children)

    Just a question, is there anything wrong with just KeePass?

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  • [–] 5 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

    No, but you need to backup/sync it yourself

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  • [–] 18 points 15 hours ago (4 children)

    Fastmail while an excellent product, is in a jurisdiction with "dubious" rules. I would give Tuta a second chance. Infomaniak is also a good alternative.

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  • [–] 10 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

    Tuta is going straight against their own policies on Ai, hard disagree on that 2nd chance. You might just as well do that with Proton then.

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  • [–] 34 points 15 hours ago (6 children)

    So, guys, I’ve had a pretty great experience with GMail, from a small company… they index the Internet, whatever that means. Anyway, the sign up is free and and I don’t have to bring a domain… again, not sure what that means, but it sounds nice.

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  • [–] [S] 38 points 15 hours ago (4 children)

    It sounds perfect, I sure hope they're not evil or something doomer

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  • [–] 13 points 13 hours ago (3 children)

    It’s funny you should mention that, because they go out of their way to specifically say that they aren’t!

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  • [–] 8 points 11 hours ago

    I believe 'em. Especially after they bought a co called "doubleclick". Not sure what that is, but they probably invented double clicking with my mouse buttons. Or sth like that. No way an evil co would be giving us stuff like that.

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  • [–] 6 points 15 hours ago* (1 child)

    First time I’ve seen AliasVault. The built-in email server to create aliases and receive email is cool. No need to use a separate service. Can anyone who uses AliasVault share your experience? I know it’s FOSS. I can’t find any info if they’ve been independently audited. If it’s great, I’ll switch from Bitwarden.

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  • [–] 3 points 14 hours ago

    It works pretty good. The thing which is scaring me is that they don't have a strict limit for the amount of aliases, instead a fair use policy. I have eleven aliases right now, so I guess it falls under fair use. There is also the option to use public aliases which aren't hosted by AliasVault themselves. I personally only use the E2EE one from AliasVault and create the passwords in KeepassXC/KeepassDX.

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  • [–] 5 points 14 hours ago* (3 children)

    Great list! Thanks for compiling this. AliasVault looks promising.

    What are the suggested alternatives to Proton Drive?

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 14 hours ago* (1 child)

    People mainly suggested either NextCloud or Filen, or you can self host with a NAS too

    Worth noting for example Mailbox.org offers some online storage so you might find an interesting combo if you need both

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  • [–] 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

    It’s interesting that Filen mentions you might not be able to use the free starter plan if you’re on a VPN when you register. Wonder why they are keeping track of that? Abuse prevention maybe, but it’s weird they do it that way considering they sell a privacy-focused product.

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  • [–] 5 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

    Something that keeps being missed in these posts that I would recommend is Forward Email and NymVPN. For self-hosted email, I have also seen Stalwart recommended.

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  • [–] 9 points 13 hours ago (1 child)

    I wouldn't trust a proprietary VPN, so I'd remove Xeovo. As someone else mentioned, Obscura uses Mullvad servers as the exit node. Not recommending Mullvad is fine and I'd do it too, but then recommending Obscura is weird.

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  • [–] 8 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

    Fastmail is in Australia. correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Australian government basically backdoor every product hosted in their country? wouldn't that be terrible for privacy?

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  • [–] 4 points 6 hours ago

    I recently made a post asking for email providers, and no one has yet mentioned Mailfence, I hadn't heard of it until seeing this post. What are people's thoughts on it?

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  • [–] 7 points 9 hours ago (4 children)

    i had enough struggle to convince my friends to switch away from google, im sure as hell not getting them to switch again. especially not when i am the one paying for the family subscription

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  • [–] 6 points 6 hours ago

    I think it's fine. Proton is still better than big tech. I want to move away from Proton for myself but that's because I am not tied to an address (custom domain) and am happy to do the switch. I would still encourage Proton over big tech for regular people. We do the best we can do.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

    I'm confused... If you're the one paying for it, why do you need to convince them of anything? They can come along or pay for their own services.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

    I do love Posteo, but they explicitly do not support custom domains, as said in their FAQ. However, it is very strongly anti-AI, and has strong ethics that I think anyone in your situation would agree with.

    For VPNs, I love AirVPN a lot, though I hear it can be rather slow. For me, I personally use it for downloading Linux ISOs as well as getting past wonky internet connections and it works really well for those use cases. From what I could see, Xeovo also seems to be torrent-friendly as well.

    I've recommended Aegis to close family and have used KeePass (as well as XC and ChiPass, which is an AI-free fork of XC) in both a personal and professional capacity. I will have a look at AliasVault though, as I would like to move away from BitWarden myself.

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  • [–] 4 points 13 hours ago (1 child)
  • [–] 4 points 11 hours ago

    How so? I always liked that yubikeys could not be flashed with firmware updates. Makes them impossible to compromise if a bad actor gets access to it, so in don't have to worry about it being on my keychain 24/7 even through malicious government security checkpoints. And I don't want it for passkeys or other single factor sign on because you should always use 2 factors of differing types (something you know, something you have, something you are). So yubikey with the smaller form factor and relatively great durability has always been my choice.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 hours ago (5 children)

    I don’t see Mozilla Thundermail making any of these lists, so if there are concerns, this is the place to say why. It’s still beta, but I got my invitation only 2 days after asking, so I’d say it’s viable in that regard.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

    Looks like they became an advertiser via acquisition of anonym, removed the "we don't sell your data" promise and switched from claiming "the best privacy" to "always protected" and updated their privacy policy, although the article I read didn't cover what specific problems were introduced, just said that it was concerning. source

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  • [–] 4 points 10 hours ago (1 child)

    I second this question. I only found the email storage (30GB?) a bit small.

    Also, does Surfshark VPN have anything going against them?

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  • [–] 2 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

    What ever happened to Tuta mail? Is that bad?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 hours ago (1 child)

    Anybody know what the deal is for encrypted mail between mailbox.org and proton?

    I'm looking to shift my proton over to mailbox. But I have lots of friends on proton, mostly b/c I recommended them to! And realistically, I am not gonna convince them all to move again. Some have onyl been on proton a few months.

    I think proton-to-proton email is E2EE. I'm wondering if various others like mailbox that use pgp under the covers, cooperate to pgp between themselves too. Am I losing anything, if my friends stay on proton and I move to mailbox?

    Email server to server might be TLS-ed most of the time anymore. But that's not E2E.

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  • [–] 2 points 13 hours ago* (1 child)

    Idk about Obscura VPN personally. Made a post about it here: https://lemmy.ml/post/53749507

    Edit: I also find it weird that you include Obscura when you didn't include Mullvad because Obscura is built on Mullvad lol. It uses Mullvad servers.

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  • [–] 6 points 14 hours ago

    Tuta enjoyer here. Shame you don't include them.

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  • [–] 1 point 29 minutes ago

    I like Infomaniak, IVPN, and Bitwarden

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  • [+] 1 point 14 hours ago
    [–] 1 point 22 minutes ago*

    Why are you using the GOP logo? This isn't an American-centric issue.

    Just put a Swastika. That's what he apparently stands for now.

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  • [–] 0 points 13 hours ago (1 child)

    what about tutamail, could that be an option for email?

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  • [–] -3 points 13 hours ago

    Please remove Mailfence from the list.

    I am using them, they are great, you can use your own domain, alias, webcal, with document space too, and cheap...

    Please, I want it to stay smol and good.

    Not all publicity is good publicity I've learnt...

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  • [–] 0 points 1 hour ago

    @inlandempire@jlai.lu , I think you may be inadvertently making a mistake excluding mullvad and bitwarden.

    Mullvad is an excellent vpn service that provides unparalleled security, privacy and anonymity. If security, anonymity or privacy could have an effect on your safety then consider weighing that safety against your concerns about its founders political donations.

    I currently have active subscriptions to mullvad, windscribe, proton, ivpn and airvpn. If I had to go down to one it would be mullvad, if I had to go down to two I’d add air for piracy.

    Windscribe is the one I won’t be renewing. It’s complex, confusing, frankly expensive for what you get, has an awful app and config file generator, constantly seems to radiate incompetence and I think their style in general is cringey.

    Proton is what you’re leaving and to be honest I’m probably gonna replace it with Nord. It’s “fine” but I can’t effectively automate its use on headless systems so it’s gotta go.

    Ivpn is pretty good with a couple of caveats: it’s still possible to screw up and make an account with pii that the company can be forced to divulge, there are many examples of this vector causing people problems with other services. The company has not faced the same scrutiny as mullvad, however that’s a very high bar. What truly is a dealbreaker is how few servers & locations ivpn has and how not great the speeds are.

    Airvpn is a piracy service. Theres no two ways about it and it’s great for that. I wouldnt bet my life on it but it sure does allow port forwarding at a decent price!

    Mullvad in comparison is simple, reasonably priced, has plenty of servers and locations with good speed, has the best vpn apps I’ve seen, you literally can’t make an account that’s not anonymous and has gassed the most intense possible scrutiny I know of for a vpn.

    If your life or freedom depends on it, you should pick mullvad.

    Many companies with some tie to politics I disagree with produce extremely high quality products and services that I rely on. It is particularly hard to avoid in the gun market but is certainly present in security as well.

    Of course if the vpn is for getting past the company firewall so you can look at pornography on company WiFi or something, feel free to disregard this.

    I brought up bitwarden but I’m tired of tippa tapping out a post so just imagine an equally long description of how it’s good and the problems always seem to turn out to be overblown.

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