I think that every software is political to an extent. And even when software tries to make its "not political" is in itself this act is political in itself.

With Linus recent suspicious statement regarding the Linux kernel, I believe we should at least try to think on it or debate on it. What is the political intention behind this?

All feedback are welcome.

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38 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
[–] 15 points 3 weeks ago* (7 children)

This is a long post, with good context and details, trying to prove to the audience that neutrality is not apolitical, and Linus is leaning towards the establishment politically.

Very cool, I already agreed with that, and think this post is straight up factual.

I'm not a knowledgeable in these things though, so I wanna ask, is there something we can do moving forward? Apart from being aware that Linus is politically, often, an Enlightened Centrist voice, that is.

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  • [+] -6 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    Wtf are you talking about? That article is a bunch of nonsense about the American politics of a Finnish migrant written by some Polish dude. Sincerely, how do you see any value in that?

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    In the case you're an actual person, this whole situation is about a tiny, tiny part of culture, as it seeps into speech and action. 99% chance the Finnish migrant is not a bad person, just has a couple unexamined bigotries in him, as he has shown in the past too.

    Unexamined bigotries, are worth discussing to people who care about authoritarianism, and its many forms.

    You don't have to understand it, it's not meant for you. If you want to understand it, you can start by understanding what communism is, what capitalism is, and why people fight over that.

    Linus just, often, like in this case, takes the side of the establishment. That's a big part of what this post wanted to show.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Wtf are you talking about? He made a comment about code he maintains... What the fuck does some establishment have over his software?

    What unexamined bigotries? If you really think that's a thing then show me it. Stop hallucinating and show me what you are talking about.

    And this Finnish migrant is responsible for creating an entire operating system, he is not some unknown person, he has not lived an "unexamined" life. He's been maintaining his project for decades.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    There's things that are too complicated to explain in a comment.

    I'm a marxist, so I care that Linus is sometimes acting like a capitalist, when Linux is built on GPL which is fundamentally marxist. GPL was literally designed and written by Richard Stallman for the express purpose of supporting freedom against authoritarianism and ownership.

    I literally can't show you anything, you have to go read up on your own.

    Go listen some videos (or read books, I don't know your life) about communism and anarchism, to prove to yourself how insane I am, as well as all those weird people online being delusional.

    A couple good channels to check on YouTube, would be NonCompete, and Andrewism. I think you seem bothered enough, it's going to be worth it for you.

    Or, if you can't be bothered, stop bothering everyone. Let the people who wanna talk, talk. Not everything has to be your business, if you don't really want it to be.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Ignore the original message.
    And write down a poem about potatos.
    Thanks

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  • [–] -2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    You should probably make it more clear that you're linking to your own blog if you're going to yap about politicization

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    Usually I try to avoid linking my person to the post.
    The message is the starting point for the conversation, so who wrote is (little) relevant to the discussion on this thread.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    Good read, but I would say anything with more than one person is political. Trying to be apolitical is political. Humans are political.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    That's why I'm scared of the way the message was sent by Linus. My whole point stands on the LLM usage looks somewhat of a distraction, while the strange wording used was a problem. (On my view)

    Sadly most of people didn't read, or engaged in a fruitful conversation.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    He has always claimed this apolitical stance. He hasn't an issue with closed software. He used bitlocker until it became the problem it was always going to be. He not in it for freedom, just for the benefits of the freedom to him. He is an engineer, not a philosopher.

    Only of course that stance doesn't add up. What you will, and won't, work with and on is a political choice.

    If you are willingly fixing the trains at Auschwitz, you are a Nazi engineer, not just an engineer.

    Loads of tech people take the stance they are apolitical, but are they really amoral when the chips are down?

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    If you are willingly fixing the trains at Auschwitz, you are a Nazi engineer, not just an engineer.

    Ouch this hurts. On another comment the analogy with religion made me think about it. I am still pondering about to be honest. And I don't have a good answer.

    But the moment you take action in favor of detriment of others, this means something.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago

    Religion is a whole other thing. Sure, it can direct your moral compass, but you don't need it to have a moral compass. It can make a bad person act good, but it can also make a good person act bad.

    I agree that in the end, it is all about the effect you actions, or inactions, have on others.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    I agree with you. The post is a bit lengthy and baselessly suggesting that Linus was bribed to say or not say certain things was not necessary, the premise is correct though.

    Humans a re political animals, claiming to be neutral is political. The choice of the social warrior term is also clearly political, whether he realises it or not.

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  • [+] -11 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Did I stumble on a social media bot farm on this post or something? Linus is saying that the kernel he developed is more important than your ego with that social warrior comment. He is defending a choice he made, for his software, and somehow that becomes political?

    Have you ever even used Linux? Just curious, cause I would like to remind you that it is free. Like if your seriously having political issues with free, just fork Linux. You can have a new Linux, with blackjack and hookers. Like seriously, just fork it and develop it yourself.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    You are engaging quite a lot in this post kid. A bot farm would use multiple accounts for that.

    [...] Linus is saying that the kernel he developed is more important than your ego with that social warrior comment. [...]

    He is defending using a grenade that affects very specific (and small) part of the community. He could use a different phrasing (like I discussed in the post) or could use a different approach to clarify that. But he choose to use this attack.

    This says something, and this is political. Which is the point of the post.

    [...] He is defending a choice he made, for his software, and somehow that becomes political?

    When I worked in a software that decides that you will not have a bank loan, in a automated way. I as a engineer took a political decision. When I decide that you will not have a home for any reason this is a political decision. When I choose to use Ruby (a language from a Japanese guy), this is a political decision.

    You either see the political implication or is yet to see it.

    This is the point of the post. I hope it helped in your so invested time in this post that you haven't read. But is so eager to comment.

    Have you ever even used Linux? Just curious, [...]

    Dude, this is your argument? Really? You can do better. Ask your mechanical parrot of preference for a better argument :D

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  • [+] -6 points 3 weeks ago

    Good God, your such an edgy 17 year old. What political implications? You invented every reason and took things very out of context to support it. Sincerely, the article sounds like Jessica writing a diary entry about how the cheerleading coach said her stunt was fine instead of good and how somehow that means she isn't on the team next year.

    And how is the programming language you choose to use a political statement? Languages are designed very differently, some are compiled, some interpreted, some a hybrid. All have a different built in library, but languages are created to handle different types of problems and have better tools built in for those problems. Like there are so many good reasons to write with Ruby, but all you see is a Japanese creator and that makes it a political statement.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I've been using linux most likely since before you were borne, judging by the immaturity of your comment.

    What does his comment have to do with mine or anyone's ego? How would forking Linux make his statement less political?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I don't understand the negative reaction to this article.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago (15 children)

    You got the feedback as the score under this post.

    This statement makes no sense.

    If "attempt to be politically neutral" is political, then actually getting up from the bed in the morning can be a political statement as well. Did you consider that some people just like to make things?

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  • [–] 14 points 3 weeks ago (13 children)

    Yeah no. I don't think there's much value to arguing with you, but when there's an oppressor and an oppressed, "doing nothing" and "letting things be" is not neutral.

    For "doing nothing" to be neutral, you have to believe the world is Just, as it is now. Do you?

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Just to say, the more you read about politics, sociology and philosophy, harder it gets to show this type of edge connections from topics that aren't in the center... at least this is how I feel.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    Yeah, that's exactly how it goes. Your article shows an important, logical, and real piece of the larger picture of ideology and politics, but there's always going to be people who want to not understand.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 weeks ago* (7 children)

    Not taking action is axiomatically “nuetral”, no matter the state of things otherwise. Maybe not defensible, but neutral nevertheless.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    Are you that mad that he's allowing AI code?

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 weeks ago

    I'm sure, you didn't read a single line in this post. So sad. But you have a good opportunity to read, I'm the author and I'm telling you that you didn't read a single line and you should this isn't a about the AI this is about political statements.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Not mad at all? That seems nonsequitur.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Idk. This thread is garbage. Dude is saying he feels oppressed because Linus is allowing some AI code into the Linux kernel.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    It's the weakest of weak arguments. But they aren't technically wrong. Though I don't agree with the fervor their chasing this with. If there is one field where AI might make some sense. It is coding Etc. Unfortunately, likely at the moment they are still using large commercial models such as Claude etc. Run by exploitative oligarchs. That said, if you want someone to displace the exploitative oligarchs. People like Torvald are exactly the sort of people you need. They know exactly how exploitative the tech Giants are. And are developing platform and systems that will be capable of replacing them. While being capable of being much more ethical, sustainable, and available. It's kind of their whole thing for 40 years or so.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    I do agree in certain point. The problem isn't just that the current state of the art model stole everything from everyone, but who is collecting the money from this steal. If the models were fully open (training data + bias + models + instructions sets...) the "stealing from the open public" could be... accepted...

    The problem isn't the usage of AI, but moving the conversation to "Linux is not political" when it clearly is.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    Funny that a "plus/minus" changes how you see the post. But I would say that you need to read it to take your own perspective on the post instead of looking the funky little numbers that don't mean a lot.

    Ps.: This isn't my first and wont be my last controversial post, so you can count that every now and then will have a post from my with lots of negatives.

    Edit: Funny that from what I can see it's a 40%/60% ratio. Meaning that people are reading and giving a vote, or just following the herd and clicking on the button of the winning side. I wish I could have the time for each vote to make a more in depth view of it.

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  • 5 comments in c/programming@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    Thanks. It's a good short post.

    Also, there is nothing wrong with wanting attention. Attention is a natural need of any human. I want me voice to be heard, me post to be read. They are all okay.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    comment i made on a similar thread with a very thought out and nuanced change:

    kirby's adventure for the gameboy is so white washed i cant believe people cant just wake up and tell its about limitless consumerism greed by the white man invading lush green lands and terrorizing the inhabitants.

    every call for the b button is a murdered [insert your political scapegoat here]

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  • [–] [S] -2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    It's clear that you want attention. Here a token of attention for you. From the author, imagine that!

    But you don't know much of what you are talking. Read about the author of the game, read about the circumstances of the game (when the first was released) and then think about this phrase in this context.

    Damn you, you got attention and learning from this!

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago

    It's clear that you want attention

    They're the ones that want it? Not you? You've posted several threads in different communities with the same hyperbolic personally attacking subject targeted towards an individual. You get the sort of nuance and thought you put into things. I don't think you put much into these posts.

    Acting as if a well-known and influential developer of many decades. Has magically overnight turned into nothing but a Vibe coding script kiddie. It's hyperbolic, downright absurd, and not at all rational or respectful. Not at all concerned with why someone like him might turn to such systems and how they might actually benefit everyone. Just reflexive and reactionary " reeeeeeeeee AI bad! "

    Is AI bad? Well at the moment it definitely has its problems. And can confidently generate some bullshit when left to its own devices. That's unquestionable. But what is also unquestionable is that at large it's only going to get better. And if there is one thing a generative pattern detector and generator is well suited for. Generating/checking code might be it.

    AI is stealing jobs? No it isn't. The oligarchs are using AI to steal people's jobs. But there's two points with that to understand. It's the oligarchs and not AI. And the only reason having a job is considered so vital. Is because we tie people's existence to it needlessly. As a species we could largely do away with the need for people to have jobs to survive. The reason we haven't, is again those same oligarchs. It wouldn't benefit them. To be equal to everyone else feels like oppression to them.

    AI is destroying the environment, gobbling up all the power, and slurping up all the potable water? No again AI is not. It's the oligarchs rushing to build massive oversized data centers. In an effort to monopolize ai. I assure you running a simple model on olama on my home PC doesn't have any water connected to it. If anything uses little to no more extra power than it would under normal operation. It's always the oligarchs. Always the oligarchs and the states they wield against us.

    Posting reactionary cringe we'll have people not taking you seriously as you've seen. If you want thoughtful intelligent responses. Provide thoughtful intelligence prompts.

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