Damn, I was going to ship of Theseus you about the cells in your body replacing themselves constantly, but apparently our brain neurons last a lifetime.
Now I don't think I would ever use a teleporter, either. Shit.
Damn, I was going to ship of Theseus you about the cells in your body replacing themselves constantly, but apparently our brain neurons last a lifetime.
Now I don't think I would ever use a teleporter, either. Shit.
I would be the guy who says, "Open-source teleporters only."
I ain't risking having myself modified surreptitiously. 😑
uses teleporter
is inexplicably desperate to try the New Improved Coca Cola
But if they were open source they'd have the worst name possibly, and possibly an equally awful UI.
I guess we can be glad that "the GIMP" is taken so nobody will reuse that for a future FOSSeporter
For number 2 there's a derivative which can also vibrate, which is said to make the process much more pleasant. Oh and it's entirely built out of rust, nobody really knows why though.
The faster you walk into number three, the sooner you reach the destination.
But you need to have the endurance to make it to the end.
The important part is to start with the acronym and then try and figure out what it can stand for.
The first one wouldn't have a ui, it'd be a Unix-style command, probably called tsck, or killu or something.
No worries, its not you that was modified its your clone. Youre dead!
I always liked the idea of teleporters that are just wormhole pairs.
If you want to travel from New York to Paris you have to first go to your local wormhole station, walk through that and be taken to the central station for all US wormholes, walk over to the international portal and be taken to the global interface station, which would be located wherever the electricity is cheapest so probably somewhere in Iceland, then you walk over to the French national station, and be taken to some facility in France, and then from there walk over to the Paris wormhole.
All wormholes are 20 m across by standard allowing cargo containers to transport through, with the Americans have made system unnecessarily complicated by standardizing their wormholes to 2.5 giraffe widths.
Excuse me sir or ma'am (or none of the above) do you want to co-write a movie? lol this is an amazing premise if it hasn't been done (and my apologies if you're referencing a movie i'm not aware of)
That works for teleportation that needs a receiver, like for a phone call. In ST you only need a transmitter, so it's more like a wormhole whose far end you can put wherever you want.
A distinction between a teleporter and a transporter...
To teleport implies the original matter is instantly moved from one place to another so there would be no destruction and reconstituted copy. A wormhole would seem to be the only realistic way that could be achieved.
A transporter, well that means copy then kill. No one knows if the kill part is painful because noone survives it. I find it funny Riker's copy is actually the "original" and his lack of death is considered a transporter accident. Yet he is the one treated like the copy...
And all that said, barclay's experience in the transporter beam is more suggestive of a wormhole style device.
I don't know why I bothered to write all this out...
Iirc Thomas is not Will’s copy. Basically the transporter has a malfunction where Thomas and Will are both constituted on a transporter pad. So both are the “original” and also both are neither. In a sense, the William Thomas Riker who stepped onto that pad that day ceased to be, forked into two different lives.
I used to use this episode to talk about identity when I taught ethics back in the day. Both men carried on their lives under the belief that they were the same man who stepped onto a transporter pad on Nervala IV. Their experiences defined who they were, demonstrating that it’s more than biological material that makes any one of us us.
Now the deeper question is: since you can’t add matter to the universe, what’s missing to give life to two Rikers?
The energy that was used in the original teleportation. I didn’t think it was that deep, it used more energy to reconstitute more matter.
You know what, now that your mention it, wasn't the explanation that the signal was reflected back to the surface due to the ionising radiation of something, so the beam was kinda split or doubled. So my premise was wrong.
Yeah. They tried to split the beam to account for the radiation, half of it made it through, the other half mirrored back. I'm guessing the computer can extrapolate the remaining matter based off of data saved in the pattern buffer?
Either way, Thomas Riker was way under-utilized in Star Trek. I also love how "okay, sure" everyone is about this situation.
Sounds like trek had the technology to copy people. You would think if they are sending people out into the unknown to explore galaxies light years away they would just send a copy. Or at least keep a copy.
I wonder what earth piccard would be up to...
The are other methods from Star Trek that could potentially be size as well.
Like "hey you actually travel through this other dimension where your physical form is undisturbed and no time passes in this dimension"
Which sounds ok, but "by the way it's kinda a hell-dimension and your consciousness gets tortured for a distance-relative time there but won't retain the memories after..."
Stop giving your time to corporations! W this, T that. They have played us for absolute fools, there is no need for economy class.
Seize the means of eldritchticity production comrade, don't believe any nonsense about colors. The trains are always on time under the F co-op too.
To transport just means to move, so if anything the term "transporter" implies physically moving people rather than copying. The term "teleport" is the more ambiguous one...
his lack of death is considered a transporter accident
Must do wonders for his self worth! 😄
They both got converted into energy, Thomas is just as much a copy as Will. Also, apparently your experience is constant across the process, as seen by Barclay grabbing someone out of the matter stream. Presumably someone would notice if it hurt...
Isn't Tom just another copy? He came out of the pattern buffer the same as Will iirc.
Yet he is the one treated like the copy…
no matter what, they were like 1000th generation of copies. "the original" died when riker stepped into the transporter for the first time. so discussing whether this one is 1001st, or 1002nd generation seems not that exciting...
Now I understand why such and such movie about magicians calls the trick "the transported man".
Well, no, "transporter" means the first one, because that's how they're explained to work where they're called transporters.
Warhammer 40k: Can I interest you in a trip through literal hell?
Also: what kind of immortality would you like?
Hmm... ironic immortality! I have eternal life, but grow increasingly more weary and numb to it's joys until I wish for the sweet succor of death that will never come.
I don't think that would be real. People become bitter and weary because they get old and their bodies start hurting and their minds failing more and more.
If you stay sharp and fit, you won't get bitter.
This is so blissfully optimistic that I'm not even gonna try to bring you back down to Earth with my weary bitterness.
They become bitter because they don't know how to handle their own minds. Hence being immortal gives one far more time to learn, but does not make learning inevitable
Everyone always focuses on the Ship of Theseus or the existential parts of this, but the societal impacts would be crazy.
Millions of people teleporting to the most beautiful places on earth and wrecking them, highways and boring parts of cities abandoned, mass death of people teleporting into a crush crowd at Mecca, landmarks toppled under the weight of teleporting tourists and bosses teleporting into your house for a "work from home" meeting, weapons and bombs being teleported into war zones...
Things would eventually find a new normal and teleporting food and resources around would remove the need for ships and trucks, you could explore the world much more easily and there would be lots of science to do in hard to reach places, marine biologists would have a field day exploring the deep ocean, doctors could teleport cancer cells out of patients, space agencies teleport probes, bases and astronauts to the moon and around the solar system...
Like it would be such a huge upheaval with so many implications. It's interesting that people really fixate on the "would I die though? What does dying even mean if I'm still around?" part, even though I think that's maybe the least interesting thing. I guess it taps into a very primal survival instinct?
Can I just teleport the poop out of my colon and the piss out of my balls, so I don't have to get up to go to the bathroom?
Where are you storing your piss again?
Piss is stored in the balls
Or you could eat whatever you want and then teleport it out of you. No more fatties -- unless they like that shit.
But that would enable bioterrorism, where you teleport your waste into the body of someone you want to kill. We would all have to wear tinfoil suits.
Depends on how the technology works. It's more likely that you would need someone's how to receive or both ends, even if it were technically possible to just teleport randomly from point a to point b I feel like that feature would be disabled on commercial models precisely to stop the above from happening.
There are a couple old sci fi stories that feature "time tourism", where they have to stop sending people to popular events like the crucifixion of Jesus because they're getting overcrowded. Robert Silverberg's novel Up the Line and Garry Kilworth's Let's Go to Golgotha! In one of them the time travelers vastly outnumber the locals, and swing the vote to release one of the thieves instead of Jesus, because that's what the travelers think they're supposed to do.
There's a book where people have figured out teleportation so they have to hide women to prevent kidnappings.
With the current constant scanning an analyzing and advertising pushed on us, I'd stay far as fuck away from any teleporting service....
If they have the tech to disassemble and reassemble you including memories, then they can manipulate that.
Would you trust Google Instant Transport Services to not tune your personality to be more favorable toward products from their ad partners, or just slightly tune your political opinions to be more inline with their own.
Just a slight adjustment, an active protester against new datacenters would become less aggressive, a random person starts buying more Pepsi instead of Coke, a change small enough that no one notices a big change in behavior.
Also, would you trust that your memories would stay private?
I am mashing my thumb raw by obliterating X.
Honestly, I'd never thought of it, but if they can reconstitute you, memories and all, they can probably just straight read your fucking mind.
Jesus Christ, imagine a government that can know every single thought you'd ever had, and assassinate accordingly
There’s also the possibility that consciousness (including memories) is part of some kind of metaphysical net that “latches” onto a particular collection of cells/matter like an attuned radio. So once your matter stream is reconstituted, your memories just “latch” no need to reconstruct the memories. If our consciousness exists in the space between electrical pulses in our brain then such a thing is a kind of energy, yeah? Perhaps, like some forms of matter, consciousness is something that can transcend space and time? Within Star Trek this might explain how species like Betazoids and Vulcans can use telepathy—they’re able to tune into the consciousness net.
And, no, I don’t do drugs.
There a series called Riverworld that I think you would enjoy.
The books, not that TV movie that's virtually entirely unrelated
Hey. That's close to my favourite theory :) although with different consequences. I like to believe that consciousness is just another property of matter that we can't measure (yet?). Stones, dust, grass, all atoms / particles have it. But it takes a certain complex arrangement - like our CNS - with the capability to store and retrieve information (and thus learn) to actually form a conscious mind.
However this would mean your mind gets fully destroyed on disassembly and likely the copy won't function / might be a vegetable on arrival because the unmeasured properties of atoms used to construct the copy were completely different (think of things like spin).
I know the theory your referring to, it grades the entire universes consciousness on a sliding scale from a neutron all the way up to a person.
But I don’t think that consciousness and memories are tied together at all. Consciousness is not well defined which makes it a fickle subject, but memories are a biological process that we can observe much more easily.
My understanding, based on a book I read once about neuroplasticity, is that memories are pathways that are literally burned into your brain by repeated sensory chemicals being sent to that particular part of the brain. As long as the transporter puts every single brain wrinkle back where it was and instructs the brain on which chemicals it sent down the pathways, you could probably put memories back into the head.
I wasn't referring any theory. While I am not delusional to think I am the only one, I came up with this entirely by myself.
Also, your "but" isn't a but. I was alluding to the same thing: memories is stored information, i.e. a structure like our brain growing.
Why I think the transporter might be catastrophic is because it could only reproduce the "software" accurately, the EEPROM-like memories. But the hardware might be all wrong.
I wasn’t referring any theory.
Oh! Well the name that the other dude who thought about it gave it was Panpsychism, you might be interested to read about it.
Your “but” isn’t a but
But it is :P I’m saying that I think the hardware would be the easy part. Put all the same types of stuff in the same configuration, give it some instructions and you’ve got a fleshy automaton that should reasonably be able to recall the same things the other thing could. The “software” as you called it, would be more difficult I think.
We know what makes a memory, but we don’t know why someone makes a particular decision or what influences their personality to act how they do. Hell, putting two human beings right next to each other and stimulating them in the exact same way doesn’t even produce the same results between the two, so we couldn’t accurately instruct the new automaton on how to act like the old one
Panpsychism sounds a bit embellished, but I'll have a look. I think we have an analogy misunderstanding. I really meant memories etc as the software because it is "programmed" with our experiences. The hardware being the atoms that we can not accurately arrange in a copy because we have no concept of the conscience related property (e.g. conscience spin, for lack of a better word). It could be like trying to run little endian software on a big endian architecture: instant crash.
Nah, Google would just lift your interests and then inject time-delayed ads into your brain...
GITS, clever
If they have the tech to disassemble and reassemble you including memories, then they can manipulate that.
That's definitely not a given.
That's like saying that if you can perfectly scan and reproduce a book down to the smudges and crumbs, that you understand the contents of that book.
To us right now in 2026, mapping an entire brain, simulating it perfectly, then editing it slightly without breaking it seems a lot more doable than breaking down a human quark by quark and rebuilding them somewhere else. But, that isn't necessarily the case.
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