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[–] 253 points 1 month ago (30 children)

I bet this is because LLMs stole her art for training, so now that the LLM users have pumped out thousands of slop-art aping hers down to the colour palate and brushstrokes, her originals also get identified as also AI.

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  • [–] 103 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    This is exactly it. Also the reason that inputting an excerpt of a classical text (cfr. Dracula, Frankenstein, ...) returns "likely AI" results - it's literally what it was trained on.

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  • But the fact that they say their system is "advanced" and "refined", while they don't even add some guardrails as, i.e., date checks, that are the minimum one would expect to be added to reduce the likeliness of both false positives and false negatives. It's just stunning.

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  • [–] 44 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    While I don't think you're entirely wrong, I feel like this sentiment will lead people to believing AI content checkers more. The content checkers are wrong even for newer stuff. I always default to believing something is human made because I never want to accuse a real artist for using AI.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I don't follow, if content checkers are wrong for not being able to tell original art from AI slop because they have been trained on datasets that include the original art, why wouldn't they also be wrong for the same reason on newer art? They would still likely absorb that newer art into their datasets.

    Okay after writing it out I get what you mean, but I am thinking that the turnaround time of absorbing new art, using it to produce AI slop requests a few dozen/hundred/million times, and then calling the original works AI because the AI sloptificator can no longer tell the difference will be a constant, unless there is some way to track OC across multiple AI agents in the panslopticon.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    AI content checkers will always be wrong. They'll always sometimes flag non-AI images as AI and AI images as human made some percentage of the time. I don't want artists to have to prove that their art is real, I want them to be able to make and share the content they want.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I agree, I am not sure how they can do this... Maybe release original art work with some kind of 2FA QR code to verify authenticity to the original author? That probably wouldn't work but you get my drift.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    The irony of people immediately and without hesitation to believe AI to fact check AI, and simultaneously increasingly anything that anyone does is accused of using AI, nearly every single time with zero evidence other than their own gut feeling. The wider internet is an increasingly miserable place to be, which is impressive that it somehow seems gets worse every year.

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  • [+] -55 points 1 month ago (15 children)

    LLMs don't steal art for training, image generation models are fed datasets by humans, which are then invoked by LLMs when prompted

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  • [–] 79 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    Arguing semantics is a classic strategy of people who don't have a valid argument to make.

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  • [+] -17 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    No, words have meanings, I hate AI as much as the average lemming but "LLMs stole art" is just a horrible way to describe what actually happened. It makes it sound like LLMs are going rogue and collecting art themselves. Humans decided to train an image generation model specifically on art like the one in the OP, and just glued an LLM on top of the final model. LLMs are not the ones that do this. I wasn't even trying to defend anything or anyone here, but I guess this place is too toxic to even use correct phrasing.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    But you could have said something along the lines of “LLM companies steal data, don’t accidentally give credence to the marketing idea that these things are sentient”

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I guess this place is too toxic to even use correct phrasing.

    I feel you on a daily basis here, however I do think you could consider what the tone of your first response was like. There are a lot of AI supporters out there and I genuinely think you sounded like one there.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    I fully agree with you that humans are the culprit here. And you're right, words do have meaning. So I'm going to point out you took an active action "stealing" to the passive voices "fed" and "invoked" and "trained." Yet you never said humans "stole." Because they did. They are thieves who are stealing and profiting on other people's intellectual property. Even if other commenters can't name why they are upset, that's why. It's the same thing that pisses people off when news articles do the same thing depending on which groups they are talking about. Without meaning to your language softens when you talked about the human actions for the exact same acts. It's a bias. One I'm sure you're not aware you're doing. I've honestly noticed a lot of people doing it. We all need to work on recognizing when we are unnecessarily softening our language for any group in power. We need to call them out for the thieving shitheads that they are with bold language. "Billionaires are stealing art." Because they fucking are.

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  • [–] 94 points 1 month ago (35 children)

    The back edge of generated content that I don't see a lot of discussion about is mislabeling real content, accidentally or not. It's gonna have a monumental affect on how we consume media, even for those that want to avoid it.

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  • [–] 54 points 1 month ago* (11 children)

    Yep, this is the most important threat of Gen AI in my opinion. The erosion of trust, and the following devaluation of truth, is already hurting society so much. And it will only get worse.

    Remember, it’s not just «did someone actually paint this?». It is also «did this actually happen?» and «did they actually say that?».

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  • [–] 32 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    A promotional image I created for a local queer rally was deemed "AI" by the community (the image was actually the result of me sacrificing 8 hours of sleep.) The vitriol I was hit with, including one of my fellow committee members passive aggressively implying I was lying about it not being AI, was enough to make me no longer want to volunteer my time or skills for my own community.

    Which is really fucking shitty. The increased lateral attacks happening because of Gen-AI pitting us against one another benefits those fucks at the top, and they didn't even have to work for it.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago

    +1. I was releasing free fucking music for indie devs who didn't have budget or limited budget for this kinda stuff, some mf on reddit who was selling his music saw this, contacted admins to claim it was made via AI, then they took the post down without doing any investigation or even contacting me. Labeled as made with AI. I've worked in the industry for over 10 years, there's literally 0 reason for me to use AI to make music lol From that point onward I just pulled out all of my free libraries from public, if it's that easy to mislabel somebody's hard work, and only give the download codes for free for people who did contact me personally and that I was sure they were actually building something.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    We're gonna have to record video of ourselves doing work at this rate.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    You're right that it is the only proof that might appease the masses at this point. That's what the committee has proposed going forward, too. And I'm feeling a little sour grapes about how the labour I am donating is growing exponentially just to try and outrun GenAI BS.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    10000%. Its really ruined everything. So many people like myself are just sticking to media made before 2018 ish. I follow very few artists today that I know are fully legit, but have zero trust for the majority.

    Thats OK. I was listening to 60s music in the 90s so I was always an old fart.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    what are your feelings about jazz? i just made some connections at a festival and all of these dudes hate llms

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I mean I like all music. Mostly heavily into rock/indie, old prog, some dnb, metal, black metal, folk, bluegrass etc. I likejazz but dont seek it out beyond fusion like weather report . the only stuff i dont like is pop or stadium country. Not a huge fan of rap (hip hop thats creative is cool though).

    Thats good to hear!!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    There are interesting signing processes in software being done for photography in camera to help combat this, ironically some utilise machine learning as part of the process. I wonder if something similar could be done for digital art

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    The most interesting suggestion I've seen is a Chain of Trust method. I don't know all the complicated details, but in short, a trusted central group is established and each person can vouch for others, and those additions can vouch for others, etc, building out a large group of (theoretically) trustworthy creators. If a person ends up being untrustworthy, their link in the chain is "cut", removing their part of the chain and any cascading issues.

    I'm sure the method has issues, but it's appealing as a mostly decentralized method of rebuking bad actors.

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  • [+] -14 points 1 month ago (18 children)

    Then maybe stop treating it like a purity signal wielded like a weapon, and judge content based on its actual quality?

    I know it's a radical idea. But artists can use AI and also be fully emotionally invested in the process. Other artists can choose to use no AI at all. And some can even make interesting pieces that would be literally impossible without it.

    Aim your ire at corruption and greed. Not the concept itself.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (14 children)

    some can even make interesting pieces that would be *literally* impossible without it.

    Got a “for instance”?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (13 children)

    https://m.youtube.com/@ChloeVSHistory

    First one that comes to mind, but I'm sure there are more.

    Could this be made without AI? Yes, of course it could. But it would require a HUGE budget, and an entire studio dedicated to it.

    Is the creator hiding the fact it was AI gen? No, of course not. Would I prefer it be created with studio quality and real actors with real props? Absolutely I would. But absent that, this is still a really cool project.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    Could this be made without AI? Yes, of course it could. But it would require a HUGE budget, and an entire studio dedicated to it.

    Got it. So not literally impossible.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (10 children)

    So is the argument that restricting people's creativity to only be expressed if you have the finances to do so, a good thing?

    Because it is indeed literally impossible for the average person to create this without that technology.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    it's literally impossible for the average person to become an expert at my instrument (for three more months) because my instrument costs like six figures. i have literally met three people my entire life with one, and they don't specialize in it the way i do.

    i'm publishing the plans for an effective practice instrument that costs $300 in about three months.

    i don't plan on charging, because people are going to get so good at my instrument. i'm currently one of the best in the world but they'll be able to blow me out of the water in five years with good practice. I'm so excited to see what people will be able to do.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    expensive. i'll be publishing under my stage name, and it will be absolutely not newsworthy

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Only things I can think of are giant pipe organs or concert harps. But both already have ways to practice for a lot cheaper than the real deal.

    Why not just say the instrument name? A random buried comment on Lemmy shouldn't spoil anything.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago*

    I've kind of lost my mind on here a couple times and I don't want to associate that with my music career. I was a real asshole.

    But you're not far off. We play with organ and harp a lot. Most of our music is sacred. I'm putting together a group where I aim to change that

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I'm not sure if this is a metaphor, or genuine. But if it's genuine I'm very curious to know what this instrument is!

    If it's a metaphor, I think it's a good one. We build, design, draw, and create, with the hope that we make the world a better place in some small way. The person that invented the abacus did so, because they wanted to do mathematics easier. Should those have come before been offended that their years and years of doing math on their fingers was now being stolen and simplified?

    This is the march of progress. And it fucking SUCKS that people are being hurt by it. I fully advocate for universal basic income, free education, and fully funded career transitions, because technology will never slow down, and people need to feel comfortable in order to embrace it.

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  • nope, no metaphor. one of the guys i played with in school is teaching nearby, and his school has one of my instruments. technically he has my old instrument i used like 20 years ago and i don't know how he got it, but that's a longer conversation he and i need to have. so i'm trying to build them a practice instrument or two (also me one) so they can start churning out world class musicians.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    So is the argument that restricting people's creativity to only be expressed if you have the finances to do so, a good thing?

    Holy strawman, Batman.

    Because it is indeed literally impossible for the average person to create this without that technology.

    Oh, we’ve also moved the goal posts I see.

    I simply asked for a single example of something impossible to create without AI, which you have failed to provide.

    You instead redefined “impossible”. Or, at least, added a bunch of qualifying words around it.

    The average person can’t make a photorealistic painting. Is that “literally impossible” as well?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Oh for fucks sake, why is it the people worst at claiming fallacies are always the first to try to use them. No, this is neither a strawman, nor is it moving the goalposts. If I was moving the goalposts, I would have to create a new justification that could never be actually reached. What I did, was a clarification to counter a bad-faith interpretation.

    My point was ALWAYS "This thing would not exist without AI." Not that it was impossible to exist without it, but that the requirements for its creation exceed what the average person can be reasonably assumed to possess. The average person doesn't have access to a multi-million dollar studio, and you taking my clarification as an attempt to move the goalposts is an admission to your own strawman attempt, not me moving the goalposts.

    As for claiming I'm building a strawman, again, you're wrong. At worst it would be a non sequitur, as it was an assessment built upon a series of questions. You can claim "No, that reasoning doesn't follow the logic," but a strawman is when I actively argue against a position you don't hold, which is what you did.

    And it's not even a non sequitur, it's just displaying your actual beliefs in a non-flattering light, which was the entire point.

    People are using LLMs to express their creativity due to lack of skill in the creative arts. Painting, drawing, sketching, all of these skills take years of practice to get good at. Up until now, when people had in image in their minds eye, they either had to scour the Internet for someone that had already made that thing, pay someone else to make it for them, spend years learning the skill, or... Just never make it.

    Whether you like it or not, these models ARE enabling people to express their creativity in ways that were gated behind money, or years of practice.

    Whether you like it or not, demanding a total cessation of their use, is definitionally calling for the restriction on how people express themselves artistically. You don't like the framing, because your pseudo position is being a champion of artists and the downtrodden, but my argument is that it's actually just a purity position built on tribal identity and emotion.

    And because I can feel your argument building already...

    It would be a strawman to pivot to "What about the Grok stuff!" Or "What about all the copywrite infringement!" Which are both genuine issues that exist, nor am I defending them or justifying them AT ALL. But they're unrelated to the specific point that I am making and was brought up in this thread.

    Demanding a universal ban/cessation is inherently restricting people's ability to express themselves. It's claiming a tool is offensive or inherently dirty because of unrelated ways in which it has been abused, or used to hurt people. You cannot simultaneously demand inclusivity and accessibility be universal, while also cherry picking specific areas that it's okay to gatekeep.

    Should my nephew with cerebral palsy be insulted and admonished for not learning how to draw his DnD characters properly? Because that is genuinely what is happening from MANY people in this toxic purity movement. Or artists such as this that don't use AI, but still get these purity police on their ass accusing them of it nonetheless.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    It is literally impossible for me to read the rest of your post when your opening paragraph is just full of incorrect statements.

    I’m also about 90% sure it’s just ai slop.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Should it be used as a weapon? No. But it fully deserves the ire. Generated content can not and never will be art, and artists that make use of it taint their own work and further enable the societal and environmental harm that accompanies it. The problem here is not a matter of caring too much, but an issue of how to appropriately handle a difficult-to-distinguish imitation of something that matters a lot to a lot of people.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    And who are you to claim to be the arbiter of what it is to "be art," Eh? Is the conductor an artist? They're not writing the music, or even playing a single instrument. Is the interpretive dancer an artist? They're not actually making anything, just wiggling their arms in funny ways.

    What gives you the right to decide what is and isn't art? How precisely do you think yourself so much wiser and more accurate that the thousands that have come before you proudly claiming that X isn't and never will be art? Videogames, novels, digital paintings, rock and roll, you name it, and someone before you has said it isn't and never will be art.

    This is nothing more than an argument for purity.

    "I do not like this thing, I have decided it is dirty and tainted. Therefore, anything associated with it is automatically tainted. Here are some post-hoc reasonings as to why it is tainted."

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Making a lot of assumptions on my behalf for someone that's supposedly so mad about other people presuming to know better. For what it's worth, it's pretty simple - art requires intent, which LLMs will always lack.

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  • [–] 65 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    The stated goal is that we won't be able to tell the difference.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    the funny thing is though that there were apparently studies that show that younger folks especially have an AI-dar

    and "that's so AI" has become a term for kitsch haha

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)
  • [–] 34 points 1 month ago*

    People are using AI to determine what is or is not AI so that they can avoid AI

    This is funny

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  • [–] 30 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Want to know what this tells me? The image is likely already in the training data.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago

    Wait until for them to close your account with the pretext of "your account has violated our community guidelines", no legal justification whatsoever if some people decide to spam that report button lol stop using these bullshit platforms that see you as nothing but a number. Hell, you might be earning your life through Instagram or YouTube, and all it takes for them to delete your years of content is pressing one button.

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  • [–] 50 points 1 month ago

    This is also entirely intentional.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I lived through the birth and widespread adoption of the Internet and it’s becoming increasingly likely I’ll live through its death, too. You don’t realise you were in the good old days until they’re over.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    My friend has been posting stories of the meals he cooks. They all get labeled as made with AI...

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago

    full reality distortion ... this tech is coming at a cost none of us can afford.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    This is likely on purpose. The goal is to normalize AI and make people feel like "everyone uses ai".

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    I listen to a podcast backwards because i only dicovered them a few month ago. I'm in 2022 and it's pretty funny. They are now where midjurney just came out and talk about how amazing it is abd they need to use it more. They talk about the greatness of ai for like 15min a podcast. "I'll do all my thumbnails with it."

    No one of tgem uses AI

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    Literal fucking nightmare

    Makes me want to never release anything ever again

    (I'm not on Meta. I mean anywhere)

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

    I think this labeling was probably done by AI.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    Lots of “AI detector” tools for both images and text are AI, yes. People using them don’t realize the irony because everyone wants so badly to believe there’s a way to stop all the AI fakers.

    edit: please, someone come up with an actually reliable way to detect AI art, something that’s not based on probabilities that will be skewed by real artists having their art used to train AI

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    For images, some photoshop forensics and a trained eye. Text is a bit trickier.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Text is trickier but for now the major signs are

    • corporate speech
    • "it's not X — it's Y"
    • em dashes used in the wrong place

    There are others but i can think only of those rn

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago*
    • lists of three
    • nattering on about a topic, but always feeling like there's not much substance
    • proper headings inside social media posts (very few human posters do this)
    • an emoji in each list item or heading (typically in the front)
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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Last time, someone on Lemmy posted a chapter by a 1800 poet and author, and it was labelled AI.

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