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[–] 124 points 1 year ago* (8 children)

And also how often the movie is completely oblivious to that. For example it's been a while since I saw "Devil wears Prada" but if I remember right, the ending is:

Our main character has an argument with her boyfriend

Goes to a business trip in Paris

Sleeps with random guy

Returns home and makes up with her boyfriend

And the movie ends like nothing happened, she's happy, that's what's important

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    I mean, that was bad, but I hated the movie more for turning it into feel-good drivel about the boss actually being kind and caring about her employee(s). The book ending, where the character realized her own self worth and started making her own decisions, was so much better than the american bullshit about putting up with a boss' bullshit because they're actually such good people and will throw a few dollars off the balcony for you to catch.

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  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago (31 children)

    This makes me wonder how many women are quite unhappy in their marriage, and are willing to jump at the nearest opportunity.

    Kinda depressing to think about, actually.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    Boomer tropes exist because divorce was illegal.

    You were expected to get married and stay married. You'd have unprotected sex with your high school boyfriend, you're goddamn right you were gonna keep the baby, and you were going to live together until one of you died. Even if it meant separate beds and not asking why he frequented that bar by the docks.

    Blame Catholicism. That's usually a fair bet.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (18 children)

    When was divorce illegal?

    Edit: Divorce has never been illegal since the founding of the USA. It was uncommon, but it was granted by courts which means it was legal just uncommon.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    The US didn't get no-fault divorce until after the moon landing.

    Prior to that:

    Divorce was considered to be against the public interest, and civil courts refused to grant a divorce except if one party to the marriage had betrayed the "innocent spouse." Thus, a spouse suing for divorce in most states had to show a "fault" such as abandonment, cruelty, incurable mental illness, or adultery. If an "innocent" husband and wife wished to separate, or if both were guilty, "neither would be allowed to escape the bonds of marriage."

    Divorce was barred if evidence revealed any hint of complicity between spouses to manufacture grounds for divorce, such as if the suing party engaged in procurement or connivance (contributing to the fault, such as by arranging for adultery), condonation (forgiving the fault either explicitly or by continuing to cohabit after knowing of it), or recrimination (the suing spouse also being guilty).

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Ok but that’s different than it being illegal. You had a legal right to divorce from the founding of this country.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    As if it's something you can go out and do and be punished for. No: it simply was not allowed. The state said no.

    This is stupid hair-splitting. You did not have a right to shit - you had to beg. Virginia did not grant any woman a divorce for an entire generation.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    "After the colonies gained independence, states joining the union liberalized their divorce laws, as did the associated territories, with many permitting local courts to grant divorce. A few retained authority to grant divorce at the state level. In Virginia, for example, petitioners had to apply to the Virginia General Assembly for a divorce, and during the first thirty years of statehood, no female petitioner was granted a divorce.[1]"

    So it really looks like Virginia was the exception and not the rule. It wasn't illegal at all and there was a legal framework for how it worked which, again, suggests that the initial claim that it was illegal was incorrect

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_in_the_United_States

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Did you even read your source?

    “Prior to the latter decades of the 20th century, divorce was considered to be against the public interest, and civil courts refused to grant a divorce except if one party to the marriage had betrayed the "innocent spouse." Thus, a spouse suing for divorce in most states had to show a "fault" such as abandonment, cruelty, incurable mental illness, or adultery. If an "innocent" husband and wife wished to separate, or if both were guilty, "neither would be allowed to escape the bonds of marriage." Divorce was barred if evidence revealed any hint of complicity between spouses to manufacture grounds for divorce, such as if the suing party engaged in procurement or connivance (contributing to the fault, such as by arranging for adultery), condonation (forgiving the fault either explicitly or by continuing to cohabit after knowing of it), or recrimination(the suing spouse also being guilty).”

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yes that’s called the legal framework for how it worked. I have three ancestors who received divorces in the USA in the 1800s (two had kids together, and one never had kids with the divorced spouse). The two that had kids and divorced were over her infidelity and the third was beaten by her drunk husband.

    I have no idea why you think it was illegal after the source tells you how it worked.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    'My family met the extreme exceptions where it was tolerated, so being otherwise illegal isn't real.'

    Horse: drink.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    The only thing you have convinced me of is that you do not understand what moving the goalposts are.

    Again 3 relatives have divorced. No one faced legal penalties for doing so and it was approved by the state which means it is not illegal.

    The third definition is the relevant one here

    Legal -

    legal 1 of 2 adjective le·​gal ˈlē-gəl Synonyms of legal 1 : of or relating to law She has many legal problems. 2 a : deriving authority from or founded on law : DE JURE a legal government b : having a formal status derived from law often without a basis in actual fact : TITULAR a corporation is a legal but not a real person c : established by law especially : STATUTORY the legal test of mental capacity —K. C. Masteller 3 :conforming to or permitted by law or established rules

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/legal

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    If not for those specific circumstances... could they have ever been legally divorced?

    No.

    As I've explained five times: there are no penalties for things that can't happen. When the state refused to let people divorce - which they did, at their discretion, by default, for centuries - people just stayed married. It wasn't a crime, it was not legal.

    Divorce wasn't legal the way marrying a horse isn't legal. You can have the ceremony. It doesn't count. Per your chosen definition: it has no formal status derived from law. Moving goalposts is what you're about to do to pretend I haven't given you everything you fucking asked for.

    You declared "you had a legal right to divorce from the founding of this country." Rights are the thing where you have to get beaten to exercise them, yeah? Nowadays you have a right to divorce. In the past times, it took some heinous shit to "escape the bonds of marriage." You had to beg the church, or the state, and they could just say no. They almost always said no.

    And there was nothing you could do.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    'Here's an example of how extremely legally restricted divorce was.'

    'Nuh uh, here's the same example.'

    Fuck off.

    There's a legal framework for when you're allowed to kill someone. Under narrow circumstances - the state will tolerate it. Otherwise, they sure don't. The only reason nobody went to jail for an unregistered divorce is that there is no such thing.

    And even then, surely some people went to jail for enabling divorce, when a cottage industry popped up to fabricate excuses. Because excuses were required. Otherwise: divorce was not legal. The state would not recognize it. Without a very specific reason, you could not legally get divorced.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I didnt give you the same example. I gave you the context for why your example was the exception and not the rule.

    That was an incorrect statement Im not sure why you are throwing a temper tantrum over the fact.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's an example of how extreme the rule could be, tone-policing troll. It is unequivocal proof you couldn't just go get a divorce, because the state would almost certainly say, fuck off. Because - in general - by default - it wasn't fucking legal. It was so restricted that zero women in an entire state were granted one, for thirty years, and you think other states granting more than zero means it was easy sailing.

    What the fuck else do you think divorce being illegal would look like? What else could those words mean?

    If divorce required a tax stamp, would it suddenly click for you?

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    i never said it was easy sailing I said it wasn’t illegal and it wasn’t.

    You keep trying to move the goalposts sp your claim could have merit and it does not. You could divorce. I know this because several if my ancestors did in the 1800s.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    mate, my parents divorced in the 80's, the stigma was REAL

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    There was stigma but that's not the same as it being illegal. The fact your parents ARE divorced proves it was not illegal

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    well there's also the fact this was in Australia.

    No fault divorce was a huge game changer for the US and other countries - prior to this there had to be a party at fault, and this had to be provable fault. So while it was not technically illegal, it still had a great deal of punitive legalese tied up into it that made it very very hard to do.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago

    It was legal. There was no criminal penalty for it and it was handled by the legal system. It being uncommon is not the same as it being illegal.

    No fault divorce made it easier and more common. It did not legalize it by any definition of that word.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Work with elderly. Coworker said "how many of these women do you think have gone their entire live without an orgasm." It connected a lot of dots. The no orgasm to elderly fox news white women is the school shooter pipeline for wasp women.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Why are you making this very specifically racial? Most of the Fox News staff are not of Anglo-Saxon ancestry. You can just say white women.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    While there are quite a few people who would jump ship from their marriage, that's not why the trope so popular. It's just that a lot of people like different forms of "forbidden love". Although most don't actually dream of doing those things, it's pure fantasy.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah, fictional romance is more interesting when it's forbidden in some way. Otherwise, who wants to read a romance novel about a nice couple who meets at the library when they're both single, and proceeds to have a wholesome relationship? Great for real life, but boring to read about or watch a movie about.

    Many of the traditional reasons for forbidding a romance are gone in the contemporary world. Different race, different social class, same gender, rival families? Not convincing.

    So you're left with stuff that's plausible but icky, like being in a relationship already, or being teacher/student or boss/employee. Or pornographic stuff like step-family. Those are problematic and people will criticize them.

    You could set your story in a historical setting in which the countess and the gardener are truly forbidden from passion, or a fantasy world where the ogopogos and sasquatches are sexy rivals.

    Or just have a lukewarm type of forbidden-ness, like "his family's greeting-card store is in competition with my family's greeting-card store" or "we're coworkers."

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    You could set your story in a historical setting in which the countess and the gardener are truly forbidden from passion, or a fantasy world where the ogopogos and sasquatches are sexy rivals.

    The amount of pirates on the covers of romance novels is the direct result of this.

    Or just have a lukewarm type of forbidden-ness, like “his family’s greeting-card store is in competition with my family’s greeting-card store” or “we’re coworkers.”

    And the hallmark channel answer. I had a coworker who would watch those every single day. I vomit at the visuals (how do they get them so consistent and apparent? You can tell just from the opening shots and title!) of a hallmark to this day.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Great romance requires a choice. It's difficult to find a choice that matters, ideally it is something they already have, but are giving up. That's why all the hallmark movies work because a big city girl is giving up her career to grow cucumbers or something. Making a choice to take a job somewhere else doesn't work because it's a future thing - giving up an opportunity is not the same as giving up a realized life situation. Infidelity really works because it's a former dream, and it means giving up stability, status, comfort for the unknown.

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  • [–] 46 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It works from a story perspective but it sends a very terrible message.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It also doesn't help that it has some heritage from courtly romance, if youve ever wondered why Guinevere and Lancelot have a thing going on in Arthurian mythology that's why. The French were enamored with courtly romance and guess who helped forge modern romance.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    There's so many songs, TV shows, movies, etc, that's all romance or love stories that contain very blatant infidelity.

    What tickles me is when very monogamous, very religious people talk that stuff up.... Like it's such a good song/movie/show... Ha. You have fantasies of leaving your spouse and running off with a younger, more attractive person. You slut.

    I'm not religious, but I found a partner that gets me. Guess what. I'm not fantasizing about running off with some mythical "better" or "more romantic" person. Yeah, we're living together unmarried, and we're good like that. You rushed into marriage for God knows what reasons and now you live in regret. Good job.

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  • [–] 84 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    More troubling to me is how many romance movies have our protagonist stalk their love interest, who has already explicitly rejected them... and it works, because their obsession is framed as "love at first sight" and "not giving up on love".

    Oh, and the other common trope, non-consensual voyeurism... and it works, because the woman is 'flattered' that the guy finds her attractive.

    ...How good is the "pop culture detective" YouTube channel?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    …How good is the “pop culture detective” YouTube channel?

    It's basically "Anita Sarkeesian's ex keeps doing essentially the same kind of thing she used to do", to the point that the writing is similar enough (at least at the beginning of the channel, haven't watched any of it in a long time) that I wonder if he wasn't the one doing most of the writing for her stuff during the Tropes v Women era.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I don't mind infidelity in media when the one being cheated on is "evil" in some ways like they're abusive or not in love. Still icky though. It's just very different when it's something like that versus "I'm cheating because you're bad at sex."

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's usually "we have gotten bad at sex" and there's no conversation about it. Maybe it wasn't meant to be. Talk about and figure it out. Then leave. Don't be a fucking dipshit about it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I don't view "we've gotten bad at sex" as evil, though it can be a symptom of "falling out of love." It just depends on the media in question and the story. Plus I can enjoy something even if I don't agree with the protagonist's actions.

    Edit: When I say "we've gotten bad at sex" not being evil I mean on part of the person being cheated on not the cheater. Being bad at sex doesn't make you evil and "deserve" to be cheated on.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I feel like the Righteous Gemstones - for a silly, flight of fancy / action movie-inspired series - depicted it pretty well.

    Damaged people compelled to seek attention and solace without thinking of the consequences. Senseless, illogical, stupid, ill-considered, badly hidden, not even really what any of the people actually involved want.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don't specifically remember the infidelity in that series, but I do remember the characters. It's very much a "love to hate them" type show like Always Sunny is. Sure, they have genuine moments occasionally but mostly you're just enjoying watching them suffer and get into antics.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm not familiar enough with the plot of any Bond media to tell you if it falls in the category I'm okay with. Like if Bond's love interest is also married to the villain and has sex with Bond I would consider that okay. Because the villain is probably abusive.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    love interest

    What!? No!
    He just fornicates all villain's wives to churn out their information, which he uses, to destroy the villain or sth.

    The women are then left for dead. They do survive some times.

    Every movie, new villain, new infidel wife.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago

    I recently heard Docket by Blondshell for the first time and favorited it right away.

    Then I listened again more tuned in and noticed it was about infidelity and thought “aw man”, unfavorited and moved on.

    Heard it a couple more times and realized it wasn’t glorifying cheating, lines like “my worst nightmare is me”. Back on the list! Real rollercoaster.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Remember when the hottest song on the radio was Follow Me by Uncle Cracker?

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Holy shit I just looked up the lyrics, I'm glad I was ignorant to them at the time

    I'm not worried

    'Bout the ring you wear

    'Cause as long as no one knows

    Then nobody can care

    You're feelin' guilty

    And I'm well aware

    But you don't look ashamed

    And baby I'm not scared

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    On the other hand that is also one of those things that annoys me about romance culture, the whole notion of your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband being "stolen" by someone else as if your partner was just a passive object instead of being the actual person in the cheating who made promises to you (which might or might not include sexual exclusivity depending on mutually agreed upon preferences between everyone in the relationship) and should keep those promises or break up with you no matter what any third person tempts them with.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I saw Casablanca for the first time 2 weeks ago, and yep, checks out.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    If I remember Casablanca right she doesn't actually knowingly cheat on her husband at any point. The woman has a relationship with Rick when she believes her husband to be dead before the events of the movie that we hear about 2nd hand. Then in the movie Rick helps her and her husband escape Casablanca.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    There is a scene with implied sex, when Ilsa goes back to try and convince Rick to give her the letters of transit.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Can't remember that but I need to re-watch it since the whole film is pretty fuzzy in my mind

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    It's heavy innuendo but yeah, they did the deed. Ilsa asks Rick to choose for her because she loves them both. He sets it up like he is running away with her but then does the ol'switcheroo and sends her and Laszlo off while he holds the Nazis at gunpoint. He ends up shooting Nazis and Capt. Renault covers for him.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I guess there were no way for her to know her husband was alive or not, a real Schrödinger's spouse situation.
    And just to hammer it home that infidelity is wrong, I'm surprised the studio didn't go with an ending where Bogart got hit by that German and covered up that he was bleeding with that big trench coat, only to collapse after the plane had taken off. But I guess since it was a war movie it was bad for morale to have the "good guy" die.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Bothered me significantly in the will they/won't they dynamic of The Office.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The OG premise of The Office was similar to Seinfeld. They were all supposed to be awful people. Jim and Dwight and Michael were just three different flavors of incel. Jim hitting on a soon-to-be-married woman was supposed to be off-putting and gross. The front office guys treating the back office guys like trash was supposed to be elitist and revolting.

    But because the writers needed to give you someone to root for, and because Jim was the "hot one" in a show full of normal looking people (aka the writers room from a bunch of sitcoms who thought it would be funny to have a show where they play each other's characters), they had to justify Pam breaking up and getting together with Jim. And then they had to turn the Jim/Pam arc into Friends. And then they had to turn the Dwight/Angela and Michael/Jan arcs into Friends. And by the final season they were just, like, "Fuck it, this show is now the same as Friends."

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    But because the writers needed to give you someone to root for

    Moreover, because it went from adapting a British sitcom to making an American sitcom. The famous tweet goes something like: "A waiter spills soup on a businessman before a meeting with his boss. In the UK the show's about the waiter. In the US the show's about the businessman."

    Same reason Steve Carell went from playing David Brent to playing Brick Tamland. We don't find a powerful sleazebag as funny as a powerful moron.

    Not that there's much difference these days.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    And most of the time it is women cheating. I think it is because these movies are made mostly for women and it is like porn for them.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    it is like porn for them.

    You think that seeing other women cheat on their partners is like porn for women?

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Yes. Because everyone has thought about that one hot guy that they want to fuck (most won’t act on it).

    Same thing in porn for men is cheating porn.

    It is a turn on for a lot of people. Very few act on it.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    No. That is indeed not a normal thing that most women do.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    well its a good thing that not a single fucking person can say wether it is or isnt because we are all only 1 person and none of us can reference a study.....

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm sure people do. But it's not a "normal" thing that a majority of women do / think about.

    Source: am woman. Have woman friends. Have woman siblings. Have woman parent. Have talked to other women before.

    It's not a normal thing.

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  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    You might be internalizing those movie scripts and your own lived experience. A cursory Google search indicates the opposite.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    What do you mean? I am saying what happens in the movies, the movies which mostly women watch. I didn’t say it was real.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    So you meant to say:

    And most of the time it is women cheating in those movies.

    Which, fair enough if that's what you meant.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Honestly that seems a little pedantic. I read their comment and understood just fine they were talking about those.

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  • [+] -17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean, the rest of the comment did not help. It feels like a misogynistic critique of "how women are". Glad you were able to pick up on that interpretation; but it obviously can be read, you know, the way it is literally written.

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  • Almost like it has to be interesting 🤔

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