A lot of people seem to be realizing that knowledge work is mostly pointless. AI might give us the pleasure of finding out what happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers.

...

We are, it’s true, living through a time of disruption. But what seems to differentiate this period from those of the past is the nature of the angst itself. Yes, AI is threatening jobs and disrupting industries. But Knowledge Workers have faced recessions, outsourcing, new technology and automations of many kinds before. Recent graduates always worry about breaking into the job market. Millennial professionals have navigated economic uncertainty their entire careers. What’s different about this moment is that the questions are not just economic but existential, the kind of questions that cause high-earning technical professionals to contemplate throwing it all away to start a goat farm in Washington or become a surf instructor in Costa Rica.

It strikes me as significant that the people who are usually the most insulated from economic upheaval, and seem to be well-positioned to ride out AI’s near-term impacts — highly paid executives and senior professionals with decades of institutional knowledge — are also uncertain about the future of their careers amid the rapid change nearly every industry is undergoing.

Some will say: good, fuck ‘em. In the 2010s, Knowledge Workers told everyone to learn to code while they sipped kombucha and played Xbox in beanbag chairs. Then, Knowledge Workers sat inside during the pandemic while frontline workers risked their health to make Amazon and Uber Eats deliveries. Now, those same Knowledge Workers are building AI that threatens to eliminate work for humans across industries and make a very few people wealthy beyond imagination. And these same assholes want pity now?

To that I say: fair enough...

...

In 2019, Derek Thompson wrote in The Atlantic about “American Workism” where he described a trend among Knowledge Workers, particularly in the U.S., of increasingly seeking fulfillment, community and a sense of meaning from work that previous generations had garnered from religion. As Thompson wrote, Workism is “emotional — even spiritual. The best-educated and highest-earning Americans, who can have whatever they want, have chosen the office for the same reason that devout Christians attend church on Sundays: It’s where they feel most themselves.”

People have long held careers from which they’ve derived a deep sense of meaning. Traditionally, we’ve referred to those careers as vocations: a calling, a way of life. More than a job: a purpose.

...

That’s the true beauty of Workism: It is manufactured to distract people from the hole in their souls that a vocation would otherwise fill. It is the opiate of commuters in quarter zips. And it works. It keeps talented people showing up at the office to argue over reports and strategy documents and rebrandings with the seriousness of pediatric heart surgery. 

But Workism has a weakness. Like religion, it relies on faith’s triumph over logic. What would happen, then, if something threatened that faith? A paradigm shift that broke the spell of Workism? A sort of enlightenment that caused Knowledge Workers to start asking tough questions of their organizations and themselves. And what would happen if Knowledge Workers awoke from the spell of Workism with no financially viable alternative?

Well, it seems AI might offer us the pleasure of finding out.

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[–] 11 points 3 months ago (1 child)

Working for the orphan crushing machine fills people with existential void, and knitting a hat for a niece feels nicer because it’s the stuff of life. Seems like people are getting their priorities straight on this author’s train.

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    [–] 52 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    This is just the answer for me because I’ve had to think about this a ton since Covid.

    I’m sad and depressed with work. It should not be the case. I’m a Data Architect and make decent money. I have family, house, and essentially everything else.

    I realized that my main problem with tech work is how useless it is. I got into this because I like to make things. That first time your code works and does most of what you want is a high I still remember.

    Nowadays, I’m in meetings 60% of my time and the rest of the time I’m working with on-shore/off-shore contractors. Even our own company junior and senior staff has a decent amount of people that got into Tech because it pays well. So we have a lot of people that are chasing down someone to help do their job for them. So the other 40% of my time is spent pointing or even giving people the answer.

    I can’t point at something at work over the last 5 years and say “I had a hand in that” while believing it.

    So I’m working for people in middle management that mainly care about padding their resume. They work for people that could not give a single damn about me. On top of this, it’s all pretend work to make people happy. So I stopped pretending any of this is satisfying

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I worked in IT for years, I'm good at it, I like problem solving, I like fixing things, I like building things.

    But as time went by, I found myself in a more managerial role and truth be told, that's not really my jam. And when I wasn't doing that I was the specialist who could support some of our organizations' worst and most troublesome systems. I was also put in charge of training people to use the company's new web app (which was supposed to make people's jobs easier, but really didn't). Let me tell you, I do not like supporting shitty software or hardware, and I really do not like encouraging users to embrace useless web apps that don't work well and serve no real purpose. I hated my job and it was time for a change.

    So at that point I decided to completely shift my career and learn to code. I figured, if I hate supporting shitty software, why not just build good software. So I took some free classes through MIT's open course ware, and learned to code. I spent a couple of years coding, picking up skills, learning languages, working with different compilers, taking additional math classes. And by the end of it all, one of my major takeaways was that I do like building things. But... as a professional software developer, I probably wasn't going to be doing a lot of that. At the end of the day I might be able to say, "I squashed some bugs in some code that I didn't write and don't really know the greater purpose of". Or if I'm lucky, "I wrote some functions that took in some inputs and produced some outputs". But that doesn't really feel like building something, that just feels like being a cog in a machine.

    Over that same period when I was learning to code I was also picking up a second set of skills. We inherited the home my wife grew up in (which to be sure, is a pretty great deal). But it's a fixer upper, it needed a bunch of attention. And since I was basically home schooling myself I thought I'd earn my keep by doing a lot of that maintenance myself rather than hiring a pro. I collected power tools, I learned to use hand tools, I made a lot of trips to Home Depot. I went through the basement full of rusty tools and restored many of them, replaced handles, sharpened blades, greased gears. I learned how to replace drywall, how to install an electrical outlet, how to repair a dryer. I replaced thermal fuses in kitchen appliances to bring them back to life, I mixed cement and rebuilt a crumbling retaining wall in the backyard.

    Over time I got good enough at this that I started helping some of our friends with their homes. I could strengthen a rickety front step, or repaint a room, or replace a toilet. I had skills that people needed and actually, I generally liked doing it.

    TLDR: In the time it took me to discover that being a programmer might somehow still not allow me to build things, I also learned that being a handyman would allow me to build things.

    So yeah, career changes are scary, and it rarely looks like a good choice, but it is an option. And honestly, I've been a computer guy my whole life, but seriously, working with wood and screws and PVC has been super rewarding. So yeah, I guess I'm saying keep an open mind, and consider trying something different, you never know what might work for you.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It is really nice to have something to show for your work besides just a paycheck. This is something many don't consider when evaluating career paths. CS or IT related careers damn near require you to do something tangible as a side hustle or at least a hobby, because the outputs of "commits" and "ticket closure metrics" just aren't a edifying use of our creative spark as humans.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Absolutely right! And to be fair, sometimes you can get that tangible satisfaction in tech hobbies. You know, I've hacked some consoles, installed custom router firmware, built a crypto miner. Stuff like that can absolutely be personally satisfying.

    But I think you hit the nail on the head, however you get it, I think we really do need some kind of tangible product of our efforts sometimes. You need to be able to say "yeah, I did that".

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I relate to this strongly. Many of us in this field feel catfished by our jobs. We took the role to get access to exciting emerging tech, or to fulfill some useful purpose and apply strategic thinking. Instead the reality of the day to day is business-led bullshit, drudgery of ticket work for issues affecting one user (and its probably a problem they caused), or having to report progress and "green" status to some talentless PM who doesn't give a shit about you or your career. That and meetings. And fires and escalations and technical bridges.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    I knew exactly what I was getting into. Office space, dead end job, doing the same shit every day, putting out dumb fires. What ever, I’m just doing it for the paycheck, so I can sometimes have fun outside of work

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  • [–] 40 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (12 children)

    I have 3 decades of experience in programming. I started with QBasic on an IBM386. I learned what system files to not delete out of Windows or Linux. I went to university and learned Java and .Net and SQL. I've done web. I've done server admin. I've got decades of Windows and Linux and shell scripting and databases of every flavor and just... All of it.

    What do I do lately at work? I fill out spreadsheets with information that already exists in 7 other spreadsheets, but we need this in THIS format for THIS VPs request. And I fill out status updates. And I go to meetings and listen for an hour as everyone talks about their status updates on projects I don't even know anything about or care.

    My manager asks us to make sure we are learning and using AI. Why? Well, the C and VP suites think we should be. Does it actually help or make anything better? Not really. But ok, fine.

    And then the real irony kick in the balls. As we push literally everything in the company to be "Cloud This" and "Distributed That" and "AI more!" and "Be flexible !" .... and they did the big RTO mandate last year. The fuck? You want everything to be remote and cloud and distributed and modern and agile, except employees must commute in and sit in this specific chair to join their video call meeting. And 3/5ths of my team is out of state and so exempt from the RTO mandate, including my supervisor. What the fucking fuck? I have to drive in and sit in a shitty cube while they get to kick back at home? Fuck that.

    Decades of knowledge and experience and talent, and I fill out spreadsheets with duplicate information IN PERSON while coworkers get all the benefits of WFH and the same damn pay.

    I don't even know what my supervisor does except ask us "is XYZ done yet?" a couple times per week, that seems to be it, I don't think they even know what we do tbh. They just sit at home and make sure all our check boxes get checked. But if you mention a single detail of a project beyond "done" or "not done" they get confused. Fucking hell.

    And it hurts even more knowing the CEO makes 100x my pay + benefits + stock + who knows wtf else.

    What are we doing?

    Addon: Oh! And then there have been layoffs. And cutbacks. And hiring freeze. And no promotion or raises beyond a basic 2-4% yearly "cost of living" raise, even though the cost of living has fucking gone up like 300% in the past few years.

    I haven't actually programmed anything in so long. It's depressing to be wasted pointless effort in a bureaucratic corporate nightmare.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    It’s depressing to be wasted pointless effort in a bureaucratic corporate nightmare.

    And depending on the details of your employment, if you code for fun, on your own time, at home, using your own equipment, the company still owns it.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Weird coincidence, all my hobby code I've ever done at home is "drop database" and corrupt system files scripts. If they want them they can have them. 😈

    I don't get how anyone could EVER enforce a law or agreement or rule that says something I wrote at home on my device on my time is theirs. Don't touch my files with your gross corporate fingers! Ahhh!

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    I don’t get how anyone could EVER enforce a law or agreement or rule that says something I wrote at home on my device on my time is theirs.

    Check your employment terms. I'd wager the first step of that is seeing if you have a paper copy. I know I don't for all the places I've worked or acquisitions I've been through.

    Something like an ALCU or Second Amendment Foundation that focused on nothing but that would be a nice-to-have. I think it overall destroys creativity in the industry.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    No no, I mean, how could they possibly ever know: A. That I wrote a thing. B. I did it within a timeframe. C. It should be theirs.

    Etc.

    Like, if made "Flappy Bird 2" this weekend and made money on it, how would they ever even know? I did it on my PC, on my time, in my home.

    I guess only if I made mega money and they found out, but couldn't I just say I wrote the game years ago, but just published it now, so it still isnt yours?

    Just seems impossible to enforce.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    I agree with your sentiment, and that the world should work like your hypothetical.

    how could they possibly ever know

    Lawyers doing lawyer stuff. As to why, you said it:

    I made mega money and they found out

    We'd have to have real lawyers weigh in, but for the most part I think unless you found an undiscovered market then they won't care. Programming isn't unique in the respect that the tools you need to do world-changing work aren't that different between what you might have at home versus a well funded computer science research lab, but you're much more likely to stumble into a marketable app than you are a quicker FFT.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    gwbasic on an XT here. Automate yourself out of that particular job. If not you, someone else probably will, or some expensive outside consultant will identify it for the chopping block. Find something of more value to do within the company, and slap an AI label on it for good measure. You are in the trenches now and you see the dysfunction... It's likely the same company-wide, so rife with opportunity.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Automating my own job was what I did do for decades of my career, the problem is that SOMETHING changed in the past year or two. I don't know what it is or was. AI speculation and fears? Late stage capitalism? The govt? The economy? All of it?

    But it shifted pretty heavily from development and code and a desire from all aspects of the company of wanting automation and UIs and scheduled jobs and better reports and just... You know, the useful corporate crap. It used to be in constant demand It was "boring" because it was corporate pie charts and data, but it was still coding and problem solving and technical and engaged more than 2 brain cells. I enjoyed it. I was useful. It made sense. And it all shifted and is now meaningless bureaucratic corporate bullshit. I can't tell if ANYTHING tangible is actually being done at the end of the day anymore. It feels like 100% fluff and no meat. Ya know? I don't feel alone in that feeling either. I think a lot of us are feeling a weird and sudden disconnect.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    AI hype and uncertainty is definitely influencing decision making, that's for sure. If your company doesn't have strong integrated product and architectural leadership, then managers across the company are probably grasping at straws, hoping to find some meaningful goals and ideas that stick. And lazy leaders, who traditionally rely on Gartner and similar feeds for trends and investment direction, probably think anything AI related is a safer bet than ... well, anything else their underlings are proposing.

    Hence the need to wrap sound decisions in a layer of AI. It's BS, and many know it's BS, but it seems necessary just now.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I resonate so much with a good chunk of that. I legit left my job because I couldn't take it anymore. My job while different went from negotiating multi-million dollar contracts, and securing pricing agreements with manufacturers to essentially being a spreadsheet jockey after a re-org. They wanted all the interesting parts of my job done by commodity management and reduced my role to something a fucking monkey could do, but asking for 47 different reports that essentially all had the same data just slightly different for dickheads 1,2, and 3 in the C-Suite, and overloading us with so much of it that it took 80 hours a week to complete. It was a fucking nightmare.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    What did you go to? Still in tech or did you go down the pipeline to gardening or become a cryptid in the local forest that scares people?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I've been taking a sabbatical essentially. Living off savings that was supposed to be for a down payment on a house (lol). Got to do a lot of traveling with the kids and I've been looking for a similar role elsewhere but haven't secured anything yet. Thankfully, my wife still makes good money and we're doing OK financially, but I'm not thrilled about my prospects in my field. It's hard to be optimistic in a fascist AI hellscape.

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  • [–] 77 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    We're sad because a lot of people have bought into overly-hyped bullshit factories made by assholes who claim they can replace us.

    They can't, but our employers are currently too uninformed (or addicted to the bullshit, or desperate to prop up their stock prices) to realize that the bullshit factories aren't capable of replacing us.

    That's causing a lot of turmoil in the form of unnecessary layoffs and rehires, worsening software quality, and general job insecurity.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago

    That and the entire purpose of AI is to reduce agency, which is arguably the single most important factor in job--if not life--satisfsction.

    It's like being shackled to an annoying and incompetent younger cousin for a summer and being held responsible for all the problems they cause while they reap all praise and rewards for anything they happen to do right. Your parents float the idea of adopting the cousin and disowning you. Oh, and the cousin's parents are yhe Koch brothers.

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  • [–] 55 points 2 months ago

    Working for psychotic assholes bent on destroying the world for profit tends to make people sad, whodathunk?

    On a less sarcastic note, this happens to people who can see past the bullshit of the modern world, of this stupid culture that tells us that we should be defined by our jobs, that we should feel bad for being improductive, that we should kill ourselves for our fucking jobs.

    It doesn't even need to be full conscience of how insane the whole circus is, just enough to be self aware that "this ain't right"

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  • [–] 27 points 2 months ago

    It’s the growing suspicion that all of the time effort and knowledge we are sacrificing is actually making the world worse and hurting people.

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  • [–] 25 points 2 months ago

    The mass layoffs, perhaps? Every job opening listing ai use in its requirements? Half those job listings not even being for real jobs?

    Hmmm it's a mystery

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  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago

    AI might give us the pleasure of finding out what happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers.

    lol, way aheadaya, no need for AI

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  • [–] 22 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I feel exactly like that. I started in tech some 10+ years ago simply because I liked computers and what you could do with them and since then I changed jobs, got promoted several times but i never truly lost the passion. That is, until a couple of years ago, after I was once again promoted in a very senior technical position. Something happened after that, the amount of bullshit I had to endure was just immense. Day in and day out, it was more and more about the perception of doing work, the politics, the positioning against strategic direction, the revenue. BUT, I was still happy every now and then when I managed to do what I loved and what I was good at. And then LLMs happened and it's been downhill ever since. No joy, no purpose, nothing that I can cling to for my own sanity. Almost every day I dream about being a bartender or a mailman or simply not doing anything. Of course, I probably will never actually do it, the amount of money I earn now simply doesn't exist in other jobs and I'm not sure one can live off of "gratitude of a job that's actually useful" and I'm getting older and that's that. No happy ending here.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    This is more or less how I feel as well. I yearn for something that I feel proud of again, yet feel held hostage by a salary. To add on to this...

    I spent years studying and learning to be good at what I do. It feels like with the advent of agents, I'm suddenly less useful than I was before. Colleagues who were juniors (IC1 or IC2) are being up-leveled to staff simply because they started regurgitating agent output - essentially being meat proxies. They barely understand what they are saying and don't hold up to scrutiny when I ask them questions in voice calls. They can't answer without prompting an AI. It's frustrating to no end. I thought I was having a mid-life crisis, but it's the industry that changed.

    Now I am trying to pull back and go offline when I'm not on the clock. If there is no difference between knowledge that is hard earned through study, exams, or degrees, and all it takes is to be a meat proxy, what is my motivation to improve my technical skills for a profession?

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  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago

    Cuz tech didn't make our lives better in the ways we most wanted it to and, as an IT professional, it's a stressful field where you endlessly rapid fire solve other people's technical problems and most IT employers are dogshit and will replace you in a heartbeat with no loyalty whatsoever.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago

    People in charge of the company I work for are actively delusional.

    We had a four hour mandatory meeting to go over our product strategy. The high level vision. For the engineers. No rest breaks. It was announced there would be a test on the materials. Not as a joke.
    The top question in the Qa section afterwards was "what is our product strategy?".
    The meeting had roughly 10k attendees.

    "AI agents are going to become so pervasive that we'll need to put a computer on every desk in every office. I'm serious: have you tried to buy a Mac mini lately? They're just not available". "Datacenters in space".

    We think they were announcing a new product dashboard, but we're not sure.

    A huge amount of freakout about how AI will make everything different and better that most people on the ground don't agree with, but we're mandated to reorganize stuff according to the theory of how it should work in their vision. Teams that change and shift every few weeks. No fixed goals in the week to week timescales. Less planning, more demos, and development goals dictated by higher ups AI agents.

    When it all shits the bed they won't be the ones getting fired. They'll be the ones collecting the same paycheck and talking about how "limited restructuring" is hard for everyone, but market forces dictate.

    I've never been under the impression that my work makes the world a better place. I've always sold a product that goes to companies that do stuff that might help someone else help people.
    It's someone else having a goddamened coke bender on 50k people's livelihoods with no consequences that has me down.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago

    Because tech isn’t fun anymore. It started before AI, but AI has really vacuumed every last atom of joy out of the work. That’s before you start looking at issues like the general lack of job security.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago

    Depression might best be defined as an inability to see a viable future for yourself and they are working night and day towards their own extinction.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago*

    When you are in danger of losing your job even if you do extremely well at your job, it can be utterly depressing and stressful.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago

    Because we sat around and thought we were special. We didn't need unions, we had a rare skill. And now all of our labor power has been sucked away because the people that know nothing about software and infrastructure now think they can do our jobs because they saw a cool tech demo

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Incompetent (at their job) leaders.

    Corporate dreadmill.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago

    As someone who's applying to dev jobs right now this thread is not helping at all

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    Making full 3D models based on real art made by the concept artist on our team? This sparks joy.
    Doing the same with AI images my boss made? This does not spark joy.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    It's not just tech

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    As a software engineer I could say a lot of things that can affect the experience in a workplace, like tech stack, team balance, colleagues, coorporate politics, product/industry. In the end though, there's one experience that I had that made me realize what can make work truly fulfilling and that was when I worked in a company that had flat hierarchy. You have the freedom and the responsibility to develop and deliver, participate in decision making from spending and product features to how many days we telework and what times. Of course, not everything was perfect, but the sense of autonomy and having a say on how we shape the product that I put all this energy to build really makes a big difference.

    This has made me question deeply how in tech and in all companies, in general, we put up with so deeply hierarchical and top down structures where you end up being a cog in the wheel at best. At worst you get crushed in middle management trying to explain to stakeholders that they are definetely not better at estimating deadlines than engineers.

    No wonder that most people try to find meaning and fulfillment in open source projects or other activities. It would be interesting to see us putting that energy in changing our main workplace.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    I'm sad because I was in tech, then got laid off, and I've been trying to apply to various other tech jobs for the past year and a half, but my application never gets accepted.

    So basically, because entry and mid-level IT jobs have gone the way of the dodo.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Reminds me of the Lying Flat movment in China. People saying F it to careers and just live as basic as possible.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    Because the executives either drank the AI kool aid or have FOMO, so they mortgaged the entire company’s future for it, resulting in layoffs, job insecurity, no clear plan or direction, and 0 morale.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago

    It's because the decision makers are fucking stupid.

    I would be happier at work if we could just solve interesting problems. Instead we have mandates from management to do nonsense, or work in nonsense ways.

    The people at the top are so removed from how work gets done, and how normal people live, they're useless. Worse than useless.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    "young man as he was on a call explaining, in painfully monotone detail, EBITDAs, margin expansion opportunities, cost structures, ARR, etc."

    that does not sound like someone in IT. Granted many of my roles it seemed like they were constantly pushing bussness and management bs on you so maybe. thos things did make me the most depressed with my job activities.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    It can certainly be someone working in tech, in particular a startup founder.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    the idea that a startup founder would be a good example of a typical tech person??? Its like the founder of a plumbing company as a typical plumber.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 2 months ago

    it's a bit different: usually founders are in as much bullshit constraint as the workers. The power is all in the investors and the founders are just the boss clowns. The vast majority of them will fail, by design, leaving them burned out. They are not in the same position of workers materially, but psychologically they are not that far from a worker that wholeheartedly embraces the company mission and burns out because of the circus.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    For me its gardening

    Ever since I regularly gave started hearing "EBITDA" my mind has drifted more and more to doing something with my hands, making something and then seeing it there in front of me. Something that gives joy.

    I'm still spending time on my self hosted services as a hobby, but that too is just to bring joy. The family can enjoy jellyfin abf navidrome, for example.

    I'll still have to work IT for a while, I fear, but I can't wait for the day I can stop doing it professionally

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    I got caught up working on my old house this summer. Doing carpentry and electrical and a half dozen other things. Nothing digital, only hands. Now I can barely force myself to be near a screen, like it's painful. I am sitting at work counting the seconds until I can go home at lunch and pull a couple of nails. But there's no way doing that work would pay what I make for sitting a few hours a day on my ass, so those hours are just gone, to a fog.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    AI fits very well into the "Workism" narrative. As LLMs generate the statistical medium of all the training data it has, the output is mediocre by design. That makes it an excellent tool for bullshit work, like creating an email summary of a meeting that no one will ever read, and countless other mindless and useless daily chores of the "knowledge worker".

    But the basic premise hasn't moved an inch with AI. If you have a job which rewards creativity and needs you to develop new ideas, solve hard problems etc. then AI doesn't do shit for you. AI gives mediocre answers to mediocre people. It's not creative at all. It spits out the average of the sum of its training data points. If your job consists mostly of doing mindless chores then it is not a good job anyway. Nothing to be proud of, not a career, just a job.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    I got about 3/4 through before I decided "TL;DR". He weaves a well integrated story and many aspects ring true-ish. However, I disagree with the foundational concept - "Workism" - which renders the well woven narrative less "true".

    Let's face it, while people generally would love to have a "vocation" in which they have positive impact on the world, they don't need to make a religion out of "bullshit jobs". We are motivated by survival. In our societies, we need money to acquire shelter, food, transportation, spouses (if you're male), children, and the ability to have time for leisure. We choose our careers based on the signs of the times, a creative mental projection of possible futures, and what we enjoy doing.

    If we're lucky, we get to build a career on what we enjoy doing, even if it is abstract and has no direct, visible positive impact on society as a whole.

    When one has one's ability to survive ripped from them mid or late career (how come nobody talks about the ageism that throws so many people out of work?), it causes one to assess their situation and life. It is literally an existential catastrophe, never mind "threat".

    I was a teen during the bloodbath that was the manufacturing outsourcing. Millions of jobs - people - destroyed when the steel, mining, textile, furniture, and manufacturing industries were unceremoniously obliterated in the name of profit. Whole regions went through the equivalent of a depression for years during the decade of "greed is good". I saw the fiasco of "job retraining" and the humiliation of workers 40 to 60 years old who couldn't go back to college and train for a professional job, and those who did and still couldn't get a job.

    It was hell. I was in Pennsylvania. I know. We're going through that right now. I'm going through that right now. I know what comes next and what my chances are. Thank goodness for me that I knew something like this would eventually happen and saved as much as I could for my whole career. I have just enough saved that I can scrape by - IF the stock/bond market doesn't crash soon (and it will). I knew I would see Social Security collapse (and It is scheduled to do that two years before my "scheduled" retirement). Sure, it will limp along, paying 70% of what was promised - for a while.

    The issue here is not "bullshit jobs finally being exposed as bullshit". It's much worse than that. I leave it to you all to ponder what that is.

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  • [+] 3 points 2 months ago* (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Are you very sheltered? NEETs are sure a hot commodity on the meat market.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    A lot of young men are NEETs these days, and in many cases not by choice - large numbers of college grads are underemployed or unemployed in America today. Honestly I feel badly for them, but I also don't know what to do about that. Living through an age of decline sucks.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Is not their primary mating criteria "provide for me"? Is not the expectation that the man pay for all the dates, and in particularly toxic cases, pay her rent, her nails, hair, etc.?

    Money is a requirement to be seen, therefore we need money to acquire a mate. There is a philosophical debate over whether that equates to prostitution. I'm not getting into that here.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    It’s a clusterfuck.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Because many tech jobs have become glorified vendor management. You don't actually support anything yourself, you have a vendor sales rep and a technical rep or maybe two.

    When something breaks or needs an update, you call/email the rep, go back and forth a few times, schedule a date for patching, and then create your 10,000th email Chain/Teams group chat with all the various people internally and externally who "need visibility" into the process. Everybody says their piece, argues about coverage or pricing, asks the same basic questions 5 different ways, so on and so forth.

    Now multiply this by all the unique software/hardware components of your infrastructure. Add to that the AI executive-led slop fest, angry sarcastic, tech-illiterate end users, corporate software enshitification, etc.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    I work at an MSP and see profound idiocy every day and nobody has the will or desire to learn anything. I had to give someone directions on how to plug a wired mouse into a computer the other day.

    I see at least one functionally illiterate person a week while working.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I'm pretty happy in tech tbh

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Working with data platforms, primarily with financial data. Although I must admit I do recognize the dread from working in larger organizations - but that's likely due to the size of the company rather than it being tech

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago

    Everyone in tech isn't sad. Some are. Some aren't. It depends the day, the job, and the person. I've been in tech for 21 years and I'm very happy. I work hard, and an satisfied with most of my job.

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  • 10 comments in c/programming@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 41 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

    This is not a good article

    A lot of people seem to be realizing that knowledge work is mostly pointless

    From wikipedia

    Examples of such professionals include ICT professionals, physicians, pharmacists, architects, engineers, mathematicians, scientists, designers, public accountants, lawyers, librarians, archivists, editors, and academics

    Are they genuinely claiming all most of this work is pointless?

    The article continues

    What’s different about this moment is that the questions are not just economic but existential, the kind of questions that cause high-earning technical professionals to contemplate throwing it all away to start a goat farm in Washington or become a surf instructor in Costa Rica.

    I'm sure I'd seen memes about software engineers wanting become woodworkers before the AI deluge.

    The writing continues with needlessly crass language. I stopped reading.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I also gave up reading it, but from a few paragraphs below, when they said knowledge work they mean stuff like marketing, finances and other relatively high paying jobs that most people aren't passionate about but choose to do for money. I think it's a weakness of the article that it isn't upfront about what it means, so you're not wrong for looking it up, but yeah, they meant that.

    The article itself seems to be on alienation and stress, but as I said I didn't finish it, as it's quite long and not engaging enough, at least to me.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    I did suspect as much, but if you're going to put something in the title, perhaps don't use limited definitions?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    Yeah it's just very poorly written, I was trying to be too charitable in my previous comment but I think the article deserves a lot more criticism, like about the random change of tone (ex: professional to swearing for no reason to professional again), missing explanations, and taking several paragraphs to explain that sometimes people do shit they don't like for money, like, we're human, we know that lmao

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago*

    I find this kind of navel-gazing so cringey, because this literally happens every 5-10 years. I remember when “hipsters” became a big thing, and that was at least two “tech workers are moving to farms” cycles ago.

    This is an awful article.

    Among my Knowledge Worker peers, I am hearing this more and more often: people who want to pick up pottery, painting, crochet or other old-timey analog hobbies

    I wonder why he thinks this is such a big, revolutionary thing?

    Aaron Horwath is the director of AI operations at a creative technology company where he is focused on implementing AI in a way that supports both humans and business.

    Sure, Jan.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago
    [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    I really needed more AI propaganda, thanks!

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Sad state of tech.

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  • 6 comments in c/collapse@slrpnk.net view that post
    [–] 20 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    I used to teach Computer Science at university, long before the "AI boom". Even back then, we were overloaded with students who had no true passion for technology or science but were there only because they had been told it's a good career move. They were convinced by their parents or schoolteachers that tech is a high paying, high status job like law or medicine.

    When they graduated and actually went to get a job they realized the market was already saturated with others like them - who had rushed into an IT degree and a career that they didn't really enjoy.

    Some will say: good, fuck ‘em. In the 2010s, Knowledge Workers told everyone to learn to code while they sipped kombucha and played Xbox in beanbag chairs. Then, Knowledge Workers sat inside during the pandemic while frontline workers risked their health to make Amazon and Uber Eats deliveries. Now, those same Knowledge Workers are building AI that threatens to eliminate work for humans across industries and make a very few people wealthy beyond imagination. And these same assholes want pity now?

    No coders I knew in the 2010s were telling others to "learn to code" because they already knew the above - tech was already oversaturated with graduates in the 2000s. We were telling students to do what you are talented and/or passionate about. It's only pundits and posers like Musk who tell people to "learn to code".

    On the other hand, the people who actually do have a passion for science and technology are burnt out because of the commercialization of tech. They want to work on interesting tech that makes people's lives better, not add features to products that will sell more licenses. The article's discussion of "Workism" encapsulates some of this, but all the problems it describes were still there many years ago before the "threat of AI".

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 3 months ago

    he article’s discussion of “Workism” encapsulates some of this, but all the problems it describes were still there many years ago before the “threat of AI”.

    Yes, that is kinda the point of the article, no? All these problems are not new, but the AI situation might boil it over to the point where people quit all together and never look back in mass (as opposed to the occasional burnout that caused this so far).

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago

    No coders I knew in the 2010s were telling others to “learn to code”

    Maybe it's just because I'm on the west coast, or maybe it's because I'm not that into tech, but I've seen it.

    I went into bio/psych during college (graduated HS in '06 for reference), but never finished, and I eventually specced into caregiving for developmentally disabled adults. It only paid a dollar more than minimum wage, but it was highly rewarding until the agency decided they were going to start doing end-of-life care for some of our older clients. Even though science has known for a while that the gene that codes for the plaques and tangles of Alzheimer's is on the duplicated gene that causes Down's Syndrome, which causes 100% of people with Down's Syndrome to develop early-onset Alzheimer's, there was zero professional guidance on how to help them through it. I was working 60hr weeks, the insurance provided wouldn't pay for more than a dozen trips to therapy each year, and was being physically assaulted at work by a 50yo guy who was seeing the hat man because Lewy Bodies.

    Some "friends" were less than sympathetic, because if I wanted a good job, I should have just learned how to code like them instead of "caring about r****ds". I hope they've all lost their nice jobs. If they'd said this to my face, I would have punched them and not stopped punching until my arms got tired.

    I quit being a caregiver in 2018 after a car accident, and was just getting back into the workforce when the pandemic hit, but even through COVID, I couldn't log into social media without seeing people patting themselves on the back for being smart enough to learn programming so they didn't have to be be on the front lines.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago

    Still true. I'm a recent-ish CS grad and I started programming when I was a tween so I could mod games. So many people in my classes were former business majors who switched cause apparently CS is trendy. These people had no idea what they were doing and even when using AI to cheat, they still had a hard time completing undergrad CS assignments. I know because I would often finish early and the professor would ask me to help cause so many people kept needing help like constantly. I'm still unemployed and honestly becoming a farmer is seeming more and more enticing to me these days.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    Besides suffering from a heavy 'bullshit jobs' problem tech is the new 'I was just following orders'.

    'I was just writing code. I had no idea I was writing code for the baddies!'

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Cuz ram is expensive!

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  • 3 comments in c/hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se view that post
    [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    I often say that I should quit and start up a goat farm but aside from economic reality, I know that in a number of years I’ll burn out on that too. I’ve done manual labour shovelling mud through months of 5°C rain. It’s not fun. I know that. But still when the weather starts being nice I imagine that I want to go work filling potholes or something manual labour that is “fulfilling”.

    I think we’re just a bit too comfortable - and bored.

    There’s also a lot of people in the middle of their career who “learned computers” as kids and went into a career they were excited about. Now, tech isn’t exciting. Tech companies are building surveillance state apparatus to sell ads. That’s a pretty tough sell to someone who joined hoping to build something that will make the world better.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    This isn’t new. The HN thread brings up Office Space which is almost 30 years old at this point. Then there’s the joke about senior devs seeing themselves as farmers in ten years.

    Once you do something you’re excited about for a couple decades you start to be less excited about it.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago*

    Adding AI to the spectacle feels existentially daunting because it moves us even further from the work we do, and its value. I don’t build the pitch that wins the client; I write the query that tells the AI to write it, and then I check the work afterward. I don’t gather the materials and write the industry newsletter; my agent does it. Before, that work might’ve felt cheap and unsatisfying, deep down, but it was still ours. Now AI is being forced on organizations in ways that call the value of the entire enterprise of Workism itself into question.

    This is a new wrinkle.

    And this is where things get particularly interesting. I don’t think Debord imagined something so seismically paradigm-shifting that it could abstract work to an extent that it would shake the working class, or, in the case of Knowledge Workers, enough to rupture a spectacle like Workism. But with the introduction of AI, it is as if, over the past 30 years, we have been slowly taking steps away from the direct experience of life and work, and AI risks pushing us far enough that the illusion becomes entirely visible.

    I didn't get into software development to babysit an idiot robot that does my job badly.

    I agree with the author — this is a major inflection point.

    A contrived example: digging a hole then filling that hole. Completely pointless. But we've gone from digging it with our bare hands, to using a shovel, to using construction equipment and finally to watching an autonomous system do it. And we're flirting with removing any supervision.

    While it was pointless at every step, a person was involved and was kept busy. Even if the purpose was stupid, it was there. Now it isn't. There's no one being kept busy, no purpose at all, and no one is being employed.

    Americans in particular derive their personal identity from their profession. What happens when it's gone? When the idea of work itself is gone?

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  • 1 comment in c/technology@lemmy.zip view that post
    [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    i started to read but the person across from him wasnt a tech person so i couldnt take the author seriously.

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