Laws are for poor people.
post
Rules for thee, but not for me
So cheap cars are out there and the corporations are grabbing them all up before the citizens. Now that capitalism is in it's last death throes they need to amass even more power and control before it all explodes and comes crashing down.
Article is paywalled but the reason Google can get away with it is because they're getting them shipped without any connectivity.
Can Americans buy 2nd hand Chinese EVs or will these then become recycling nightmares as a giant outfit cuts every possible corner in a very loosly regulated area?
You can import them after they're 25 years old but good luck getting parts or repairing them.
Unpopular opinion: Google’s approach actually makes sense here. The value isn’t the rolling metal box, it’s the autonomous driving stack. If Zeekr can build a high quality EV platform more cheaply, why reinvent it? Buy the best chassis, replace the electronics you don’t trust, and focus engineering effort where your competitive advantage actually is.
I don't think anyone is thinking Google is in doing the wrong decision. The problem is that Google, and other corporations, work with a set of rules different to normal, not corporate entities, don't. Like they can bought the most competitive cars on the global markets, while regular Americans are stuck to whatever Ford and GM want to sell them.
Google isn’t getting special treatment here because it’s Google: Waymo isn’t importing finished consumer cars, it’s importing a vehicle platform, removing the original electronics, and integrating its own autonomous system. That’s much closer to sourcing components than selling Chinese EVs directly to the public, so it’s not really an apples to apples comparison.
We should work to either innovate or partner with Chinese manufacturers when it comes to EV technology.
good luck with that in your republican america
Step 1: new constitutional convention in order to replace the federal government, which has been in lawmaking deadlock for about 16 years.
Yes but stop believing the Dems are better.
They ARE better. They're not good, but they are better than the subterranean bar Republicans set.
Does it make you feel better to say that? They're dogshit. They are as guilty of this situation as the R's.
Conflating shitty with straight up fascists only serves to help the fascists.
This isn’t a clever loophole – – this is Trump making sure that only billionaires can profit, and the rest of us are all fucked
It doesn't actually seem that way. They're likely eating the tariff because of the costs of hardware redesign, which I would imagine to cost millions and a lot of testing time.
If they're getting a volume discount of 10%, then after tarrif each vehicle is probably cheaper than a whole refab.
silly goose, corporations make their own rules
In this case, corporations have the exact same rules as the everyday man: you can import Chinese EVs for a 127.5% tariff. Waymo is doing exactly that, just as you can.
The title of the article (that Americans can't buy Chinese EVs buy Waymo can) is refuted by the very first paragraph of the same article.
yeah... sure... so very worried about "national security" that security risks can only be used by government employees, big corporations, and in federal buildings but not in private homes... yeah sure... that's secure. Really feeling the security of the nation here... NOT.
- Paywall
- As the article says, Americans can buy them, but you'll have to pay 127.5% Republican tariffs.
Yup no $8k economy cars.. You'll buy that$30,000 truck and like it
At least til recently, Waymo here in California was using modified Jaguars. IDK if they started out as Jaguar EV's or if they were ICE cars converted by Waymo. But they are everywhere in SF and also seen in other parts of the region.
Just like Waymo, you pay a 127.5% tariff. Americans can buy Chinese EVs; the title is simply a lie that is refuted by the very first paragraph of the exact same article.
Does this have to do with safety regulations or something? Like what is the reasoning behind it? Because I heard these Chinese cars dont have good safety regulations
The reasoning is to protect us companies from having to invest in better factories and design, any manufacturer's cars meet whatever safety standards they are designed to meet.
US companies are just a small fraction of auto sales in the US and two of the three make most of their money selling trucks and big SUVs which aren't even in the same vicinity as Chinese EVs competition wise. Stop spreading disinformation.
Except that's the reason.
Why because that's how you guys feel and because you state the claim with confidence (but nothing else)?
The auto industry in the US is already dominated by foreign brands and has been for quite a long time. It doesn't make any sense as being the reason because that ship sailed long ago, and as I already described, two of the three remaining US automakers don't even bother competing in the segment that Chinese EVs operate in, so what US company does it protect apart from Tesla which makes up a whopping 3% of the entire market?
It doesn't matter if the competitor is a gas car or not, an EV on the market is a car on the market, at a set price on the market.
There are no way, no EV for me, nuh uh people just as well as there are EV or nothing people, just as well as there are I just gotta get to work, man people.
what US company does it protect apart from Tesla which makes up a whopping 3% of the entire market?
All of them. No EV? Factor gas into the monthly payment. EV? Consider the gas as part of the monthly payment.
Quit building fake goal posts, a car is a car, and any customer will buy one if it suits their budget. If a Chinese car suited their budget, they'd buy it.
you haven't really address that the US is already dominated by foreign brands though so it doesn't make sense to exclude china specifically unless there are other reasons beyond just keeping the US companies dominant. TryingToBeGood cited security concerns which i think is probably the more likely reason.
you haven't really address that the US is already dominated by foreign brands though
That wasn't really part of my grievance. Our domestic brands are even foreign brands. Ford and Chevy motors are made in Mexico and the electronics are all Chinese or Mitsubishi accross every US brand. The optics shit about domestic vs foreign is more political than real. I see more MAGA fucktards in Nissan Leafs due to poverty than I do Dodge Chargers.
If protectionism is not a consideration why were there massive controversial bailouts when US auto started to fail?
The answer is simple.
Its not either/or its both. The brands in the US are from countries allied with the US. They don't want China to have more manufacturing that can potentially be used in war. Conversely they want US manufacturing that can be used in war.
The industry they're protecting just happens to be used for civilian purposes right now.
They're telling you Chinese cars spies on you because they want you to think your interests and the states interest align with regards to war with China.
i mean, if that's the case it sounds like a valid security concern. it doesn't make sense for the US to put themselves at a disadvantage in a potential war. but why would australia not also ban BYD considering they're a US ally? don't they also provide china more manufacturing that can be used in war?
Right, the question should be, is it in your interest to support war with China? A world at war is not in my interest. The US should scale back the military industrial complex.
For most people if you want to continue to access the resources you need for a satisfying and dignified life your bigger concern should be climate change. While it would have been nice if the US had adopted Chinese style industrial policy to address climate change 20 years ago, China has the tools to start addressing it now.
The US is denying those tools to its citizens because it threatens US hegemony.
i mean, china produces more global emissions than the US totally. they produce less per capita but still. their percentage increase in global emissions since 2000 has been +223% while the US is down 34% in terms of emissions since 2000. subsidizing green energy would be good though.
The US is down because the US exported much of its industry to China.
fair but if china is buying it at such a rate they are not shifting to clean energy. i don't think the supplier matters as much as the demand. and if 34% of emissions in the US are down but our energy usage hasn't gone down then that 34% is still the US producing less emissions either because there's less necessity or demand for it.
I'm not sure I understand the point you're making.
Regardless, China deployed an entire US electricity grid of capacity in solar energy in a single year. They are making the translation to green energy.
both can be true at once. they're increasing use of fossil fuels as well as solar and wind. here is a chart of their emissions.
they're trying to transition away with it with some success and some challenges, but painting a picture like they are environmentally friendly is inaccurate.
Can I have your source for that graph?
It says '2025 projected'. When was that 'projected'? The year China really started laying solar was 2024.
Its interesting data, but I'm not sure it responds to the point I'm making. My point is not that China is currently green but that they are in the process of building the infrastructure required for the transition away from fossil fuels.
I think describing what they've done so far as 'some success' is understating the scale of what they've accplished. Especially when compared to their contemporaries such as the US.
Worth pointing out that over the last year China leveled out while they brought more green choices online, while the US suddenly shot up and looks to continue to do so.
i mean, if we look at a 1 year time scale of anything we can say there's a trend in any direction we want. that's why i'm looking at the trend starting from 2000s.
Except this is breaking both trends. By quite a bit. China has never been flat over a year. America had been trending down and now a sharp rise up.
And we know why: China is adding green and nuclear, the US is going burn baby burn and avoiding green options.
China makes EV SUVs, they're just as awful as their American counterparts despite being slightly better for the environment.
But the part that the big auto manufactures fear is that they would destroy the market; they understood awhile ago that every wagon they sell is a lost SUV sale, which has a way higher margin, every sedan a lost sport-crossover sale, every minivan a lost 4dr pickup.
Dealers hate EVs because they lose so much on servicing, and dealership owners are one of the most chuddy groups.
Literally Biden's stated reason for blowing up the EV credit, and Trump's stated reason for Chinese car tariffs.
Biden didn't blow up the EV credits, the program expired and he brought a second round back. Also we don't have Chinese car tariffs because Chinese cars aren't sold in the US.
Jesus christ everyone wants to make up their own reasons based on nothing more than their feelings-based assumptions.
What's funny is that I bet a lot of you would also argue that Americans don't earn enough money while simultaneously arguing that we should outsource what few well paying manufacturing jobs we have left to a country on the other side of the planet.
we don’t have Chinese car tariffs because Chinese cars aren’t sold in the US.
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/joe-biden-china-tariff-hikes-ev-battery-semiconductor-final/727014/
This is on top of the special 25% tariff on all chinese goods. The reason we don't have Chinese cars is the massive tariffs.
He made the Federal EV credit only apply to the big 3 in functionality. Who didn't have good EV offerings at the time. That's a paddlin. And no, we should just require American companies to manufacture stuff here. Working for the people means working for the people, NOT the corporations.
They are supposed to be as good or better than cars made by the US Big 3. Then once the new sodium ion batteries come out, they will be far safer.
only to some extent, it's not like the safe models aren't being blocked. I think for example, the BYD Dolphin was redesigned to meet australian compliance.
Chinese companies are willing to redesign for saftey, but the government of course has other plans.
Basically some chinese cars by their direct chinese design, might not pass US safety standards. However china has shown they are willing to modify designs to enter the market. the only reason why they aren't in the US market is because the government wont let them. Corporate has been using chinese evs (and trucks) and buses, for awhile now.
Where did you hear that bullshit?
My BYD has the highest rating possible
It has to do with the cars talking to each other and perhaps eavesdropping on other vehicles, etc.
Washington, D.C. – Today, the U.S. Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) announced a final rule prohibiting certain transactions involving the sale or import of connected vehicles integrating specific pieces of hardware and software, or those components sold separately, with a sufficient nexus to the People’s Republic of China (PRC) or Russia.
BIS and its Office of Information and Communications Technology and Services (OICTS) have found that certain technologies originating from the PRC or Russia present an undue and unacceptable risk to U.S. national security. Today’s action represents the culmination of a months-long regulatory process to design, seek public input on, and ultimately finalize a measure to protect drivers and passengers on American roads.
I don’t want any of the Chinese EVs either.
Why?
Is it stupidity, or good old-fashioned racism?
They’re ugly and over complicated
I don't think a single person has actually been to China or understands what it's actually like beyond tiktoc propaganda.
You all are crying for shit cheap EVs, then if you get them you're going to cry that your house burns down and it's Trunps fault. I would be as happy as the next person if the orange flavored dip shit was gone, but you've created a no win situation
I find it also amazing that people are willing to forego actually paying people enough to have a living so long as they save money. China is a COMMUNIST country, and reguardless how you feel about it, they apress the fuck out of their people.
HAHAHAHAHAH
Edit: am in China rn, it's even better than the TikTok propaganda. Would live here in a heartbeat instead of the racist and islamophobic West that bombed my country and called me a Muslim scum when I fled to their so called humanitarian safe havens.
China was a communist country, long ago. Now, they are communist in name only. And yet America still "apresses" [sic] their people (and the rest of the world) under a capitalist system so what gives?
This would hold up better if I could get a non-shitty car made in the USA. Alas…
Truly, it would be difficult for the Chinese to do a worse job of making cars than the planned obsolescence crap we’ve come up with.

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