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[–] 66 points 3 months ago

even if you do believe in freedom of expression and information, why would you donate to a fascist group which have been using suppression of expression - either it is attacking immigrants, pushing age gate laws, or attacking trans rights - as their path to power?

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  • [–] 90 points 3 months ago (27 children)

    There is no stance that Mullvad can take on this in order to make me want to stay with them, since this is not an abstract, philosophical matter. It's simple: Daniel partially owns a pro profit company. I pay Daniel's company some money. Daniel reaps - as he should - parts of the company's revenue as wage (which is my money). Daniel uses that wage to fund whatever the hell he wants - as he should - with my money. I'm either fine with contributing to this or not. Period. I am not fine with it, so I'm flirting with IVPN.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago (16 children)

    Thought experiment time…

    part of the company’s revenue as wage

    How far down the chain does that count for you? If there was a VP, Manager, or Individual Contributor that took their (personal) wages and donated to a cause you didn’t like, would you still pull your money?

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  • [–] 23 points 3 months ago (15 children)

    Good question! I guess it does matter that he's a cofounder and CEO. I honestly don't know how I would react if we were talking about an employee instead. I'd deliberate and make up my mind there and then. Which sheds light on the fact that the matter isn't as black and white as my comment made it sound.

    Possibly off topic:I work within the criminal justice system and I believe cops are pigs, while I know for a fact that there are good people on the force too. I wouldn't give up my current position just because another "lowly" employee is rotten.

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  • [–] 34 points 3 months ago

    It's also the scale of the donation for me. He didn't just make a donation the way you or I probably would - his donation accounted for 72% of the party's entire income for 2025. So the money that Mullvad makes is now tied to the continued existence of the party, albeit indirectly.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    It was something I didn’t have a good answer for either. I think ownership is a good criteria but then I was trying to figure out why it was to me. Since it’s passed to an individual, via salary, is it still “my money”?

    Amount could have something to do, but it’s possible for a highly paid IC to donate quite a bit.

    The one that is cut-and-dry for me is something like Chic-Fil-A. My money is going directly to their foundation, which is used against LGBTQ people, so that’s an immediate hard no.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    He is providing that political party with over half of its income if I recall correctly.

    If Mullvad’s janitor were someone doing that and Mullvad refused to terminate them, I’d quit Mullvad.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    If Mullvad’s janitor were someone doing that and Mullvad refused to terminate them, I’d quit Mullvad.

    It's Swedish company, there(and probably in most of the world) it's illegal to fire someone for such reason, worker’s rights and all that.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    Then I’d quit them….

    Don’t fund the guy funding the white nationalist party. That’s rule 1 and we can sort the rest out later.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    How would you do it? There's no way to "quit them" unless they want to quit themselves, it's not the US. If you think you can fire them and pay some fines, that's not the case, you'll pay them fines AND will be required to rehire them. Like the only way is to shut down the whole company or make them a super sweet offer, both require giving them a lot of money.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    Miscommunication… I’d quit Mullvad as a customer. I have done that and received my refund.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Ah, sorry. Which service did you move to? Because given the statistics of far right support there's a very good chance there's at least some employee in that company with those views as well. Still better than their CEO or founder though.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    Just to make sure I understand, you do support employer discrimination against employees, just only for the political beliefs you find offensive. Do I understand that correctly? While I believe the only good nazi is a dead one, I alao believe the systems we set up generate the crap we have to deal with later.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    It’s Karl Popper’s tolerance paradox. To answer your question, yes I am in support of discrimination against anyone using their salary to fund over half the annual budget of a white nationalist political party.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    I, for one, am in support of your ability to stop giving mullvad money as a consequence, but not in support of anyone being fired over a political donation regardless. I don't want to be fired over donating to causes I support, and there is no universal moral judge to say what is fine to donate to, even if I have pretty strong opinions on the matter.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    I think we can find some lines though. We aren’t talking about political disagreements on the marginal tax rates or how to fund schools.

    We are talking about donations to a political party calling for ethnic cleansing.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    In any sane country a "national socialist" aka nazi party is illegal, an employee funding a party like that are committing a crime so any morality bullshit about freeze peach is beyond that.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    Ivpn, how’s it working out?

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    I thought one of us is tripping 🤣

    We haven't even gotten to first base yet, because I have several routers and hosts configured with my Mullvad account, some of which I don't have immediate physical access to, so switching over is going to have to be a project for my upcoming vacation in September.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    I made a couple of accounts with them but havent messed with their config generator or apps yet. Still trying to figure out how to allow a pc to select a vpn server but never drop the vpn even through root user intervention.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Can't help you there. My endpoint hosts are Android devices and Windows systems and on them, using the Mullvad app with its killswitch, connections are blocked while it changes Mullvad server.

    As for the routers, I configured them following more or less this guide: https://mullvad.net/en/help/running-wireguard-router

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    If you’re using wrt or pfsense or something (no word on if their tomato guide works for freshtomato devices yet), you’ll probably like ivpns router support: https://www.ivpn.net/setup/router

    They even have instructions for asuswrt-Merlin which I always thought of as niche.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 43 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I think they're severely underestimating how valuable the recommendation of techies/word of mouth effect is to their business...

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Time will tell, the industry is based on paid 'reviews', and manipulation. There is little reason for any of them to pretend to be ethical, the biggest companies definitely aren't. Mullvad are likely to feel this though, since they most likely have a more ethical user base than the competition. Airvpn and ivpn are no doubt gaining new customers.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago*

    My point was that their user base is more technologically adept than other businesses, and therefore it matters more for them. Also their selling point is that you "trust" them not to give your info away, and anything that makes them seem untrustworthy is bound to hurt their business. So they're not really comparable to regular businesses when it comes to that.

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  • [–] 35 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I have had a Mullvad account for many years. I now have an iVPN acc. It's a very simple choice for me. If Mullvad's success results in funding far right racists then I don't care to assist that happening

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago*

    I have about 50 days left on my Mullvad subscription, so I figured I'd wait it out and see how they handled it. Going by this latest Mullvad response, I think I'll probably have an IVPN account soon too.

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  • [–] 26 points 3 months ago

    Self-censorship out of fear is an even bigger dampener than direct censorship.

    Man, I hate having to think about the effects of my actions before I do something. It's so much better to just do things, and then see if there are consequences.

    /s

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  • [–] 24 points 3 months ago

    vpn company be normal for 1 second challenge [impossible]

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  • [–] 21 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    I've read the blog of the other guy... What a mutilation of marxism...

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    What's not to love, they simply want a national version of socialism. I'm sure that's never come up before.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    And he called himself an anarchist when he's a textbook example of social darwinist, Armstrong type even. My anarchist brothers and sisters, when will you step up to not let them take the brand and banners of your hands?

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago

    Wow I didn't hate them before, but thanks to this post I stand corrected

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  • [–] 56 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    "aren't we living in a multicultural democracy, why can't the minorities and the racists just get along and be respectful of each others' ideas"

    Absolutely pathetic response. I'm less likely to use them now than before I read this

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  • [–] -3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Sorry, but where are you quoting from? It seems to be neither from mullvad's last post, nor from the linked blog of Daniel Berntsson.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago

    We have nurtured a culture of radical tolerance. Even when some in our sphere of collaborators have advocated for actors and views that have personally and severely affected the founders and their family members, this has not stood in the way of cooperation.

    The leopards that ate other people's faces will definitely not eat my face too

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    They seem to be on the inertia as a strategy train. Most users won't have heard about this so they're not in danger of losing them. A few who have won't abandon ship because it's a pain. And the rest they seem to tolerate losing. That's unfortunate, say I who isn't even their customer. I would have thought they do more but maybe another two weeks of ended subscriptions can lead them to reason and get rid of Daniel.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (11 children)

    What is a good alternative to Mullvad? My subscription just ended yesterday.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    If you want something European, I'd throw AirVPN in the mix. I went there and never to Mullvad. And now I'm glad I didn't and at the same time I'm looking forward to hearing inevitably what corpses my current provider has in the cupboard.

    I dislike Proton, which I quit after the CEO praised 47 on his big tech regulation and before they handed the email account of some environmental activist over to the authorities, in France IIRC. They want to be your replacement for Google and keep pushing more services at obscure subscription levels at you. In terms of VPN, they were good though.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    The Hated One has a video explaining his take on what Mullvad has done, and he gives 2 good alternatives to Mullvad. He also has other videos comparing VPN services in terms of privacy. He's very thorough.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    https://nym.com/

    https://safing.io/spn/

    https://www.ivpn.net/en/

    https://torproject.org

    I would be wary of the claims of any company implementing a mixnet as part of their VPN. The anonymity that Tor provides depends on the basic principle that is is unlikely that your exit node and entry node will be able to collaborate. If all nodes in the network are run by one company then that basic assumption is broken from the start.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Thank you Safing I have not heard of. ivpn not great for southern hemisphere (but do appear ethical) Tor I haven't looked into for a long time I looked into nym not long ago and left myself this note 'Pricey if doing per month, not if doing for year. Lack of transparency, shit website. Dodgy feel.'

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    If all nodes in the network are run by one company then that basic assumption is broken from the start.

    That just degrades it to a normal VPN. Allowing others to join the mixnet, gives it a path to more decentralization. But these things have to start somewhere

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    There isn’t one with feature or operations parity and a similar history of success.

    If you are actually concerned for your safety or legal status or something then I wouldn’t switch from them.

    If you’re trying to accomplish something else there are good alternatives. Air for example is a great piracy vpn but I wouldn’t trust it for my own safety.

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  • [–] 32 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    They try to distance themselves from it as much as they can, but at the end of the day he is using money he obtained from Mullvad (us) in ways some people don't like.

    The only true way to stop it is for the CEO to leave the company and sell all shares and stakes...

    Or to simply stop giving Mullvad money, which is what I've done. There are plenty other privacy focused vpns that don't have this issue.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Are they trying to disrtance themselves, though?

    Mullvad does not condone it, nor condemn it. It most likely was a bad idea; most things where there are a multitude of conflicting opinions necessarily are. But societies need a great diversity of ideas, initiatives and organizations who can be tested and sifted until the best ones remain.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    But societies need a great diversity of ideas, initiatives and organizations who can be tested and sifted until the best ones remain.

    need? At what point does a society NEED to test racism to see if it should remain?

    When will these societies decide that they tested it long enough?

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago

    Pretty tone def whinging about cancel culture.

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  • [–] 22 points 3 months ago

    Damn the radical woke left with their impossibly high expectation of basic human decency.

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  • [–] 28 points 3 months ago

    They really don't get it, it is very disappointing, but they deserve to fail now. 99% of the VPN industry is dodgy, mullvad now included.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    Not gonna give them a single cent from now on.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    What vpn to migrate to? Proton trys to be Google 2.0 and centralize, The ones from the adverts (nord, tunnelbear, surfshark) dont protect your privacy and are therefore useless...

    Anyone with more tech knowledge got a recommendation fro maximum privacy and decent enough speed and ping for hd videos and casual gaming?

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (5 children)

    I'm going with Nym when my Mullvad sub is up. If I can get a refund from Mullvad without KYCing myself, I'll do so earlier.

    Nym runs your traffic through 5 nodes or 2 nodes (a nixnet) depending on user selected setting. Node operators are paid in crypto based on the number of packets they handle. The CEO is an anarchist and expects to be in prison at some point. Nym is designed to continue running even if all the higher ups are in prison.

    I'm not a customer, just got all this from an interview with the CEO on with TheHatedOne.

    Edit: This is the interview I mentioned https://www.bitchute.com/video/uoyDTW2nxWk

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    My Mullvad sub ended very shortly after this news broke. I paid for nym but the connection on my Android would constantly disconnect and reconnect. On my Linux PC the connection was much more stable but every time I started my PC I would have to restart the daemon because it would never auto start properly. I ended up getting an ivpn subscription as I have used them before and had no problems. I paid for the 2 year sub for nym using their $nym token so it was fairly cheap. I don't care too much as I want to support them and hope they can improve the experience and I may use the 5 hop mixnet occasionally.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    Thanks for the heads up on Nym. I'll have a look at iVPN.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Given that Mullvad is the gold standard for ACTUAL privacy, can be paid with cash or crypto, has no user accounts and has been actually tested by law enforcement and they got fuck all.

    What is the alternative? Privacy first VPN, not “I wanna watch Japanese Netflix” VPN.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago*

    I’m currently on my first month of IVPN and I’ve had a better experience with Netflix’s regional restrictions. With Mullvad, Netflix eventually is able to catch up when I switch locations, and they block the content I want to see. IVPN is able to evade that, at least for now based on my experience.

    EDIT: Never mind, I misread your comment and thought you were asking about evading streaming regional restrictions specifically. lol

    But yes, IVPN is a good alternative and recommended in privacyguides.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    There isn’t one.

    If you don’t need to have a legally tested system to protect yourself and can yolo it and also understand how to navigate their sites to pay cash only and not set up a normal account then both Ivpn and proton are fine.

    Don’t use air for privacy. They’re a piracy service. They’re really good at that though.

    Don’t use nym for a while. Even if they were trustworthy their tech is green and relies on the same systems that proof of stake cryptocurrencies do.

    Safing is a little too complicated to recommend.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago

    FUCK Mullvad now. Damn it

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    I am once again posting a reply to help users of lemmy understand that there is no alternative to mullvad unless you can accept a lower privacy, anonymity and security standard of service.

    That doesn’t mean if you leave mullvad you will be harmed, only that you will be losing safety margin.

    Your decisions are your own: you may know better than me, you may be willing to suffer for your principles, you may believe your actions in the marketplace will have a tangible effect on the world but if you read this you can hopefully make those decisions yourself with clear eyes and understanding.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    IVPN is often cited as an alternative to Mullvad. Is there any reason not to consider it now?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

    I have used ivpn in the past, before apps, and have some accounts for its present iteration that are not tested yet.

    The biggest problem I see with ivpn is how complex its offerings are and by extension how difficult it is for even a user who has passing familiarity with VPNs like myself to make good choices.

    While recently it’s been made the default, the user can still opt to create a username and password that are subpoenable pii, if that’s a word. Able to be subpoenaed.

    It is not immediately clear what the security surface is on their various product tiers. I won’t go into all of them but the top features a third party firewall program called portmaster that’s developed by a different vpn company called safing. Perhaps this is useful to you. I found it to be another fractal galaxy of loose ends to tease out.

    The above stuff is largely the same boat proton is in. You can set up a simple vpn account. Will you? They would love to give you a good deal on a big bundle…

    Mullvad avoids this with a single product offering, no additional attack surface (except for their now ubiquitous version of the vpn app) and no way for the user to put them in a situation where they ever even have your information.

    What remains to be seen is real strongly investigated results of a legal action against ivpn. Those legal actions have happened but they’ve largely been what get called “fishing trips” by exhausted public defenders in procedural dramas. There hasn’t been anything on the scale of what’s been pointed at mullvad and with the Byzantine stuff on offer by ivpn in comparison to mullvad it would be a real hoot to dig through that disclosure if and when it comes along.

    It may behove you, as it once behove me (is it really spelled the same in past and future perfect tenses, like a read/read situation?) to disregard guides or recommendations and instead look into the information directly and draw your own conclusions.

    For example: Often times, a guide or recommendation is formatted as a spreadsheet and the best option is the one that accumulates the most check marks across its row. That type of decision making system would give an advantage to services that support the use of the openvpn protocol since it’s one more check than those that don’t. Except for the common modern use case of openvpn is embedded edge devices like routers that may not support safe openvpn configurations.

    So presence of footgun is a plus in many systems used to recommend VPNs and that’s just a simple example.

    Everyone’s different and everyone’s needs are different.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    I started using ivpn almost 8 years ago, and I believe the default setting back then was to not use accounts with usernames.

    Some of the key reasons I chose it at the time were port forwarding (this service was later discontinued), its open-source F-Droid application, the ability to configure the WireGuard connection on my Linux machine without the application (I never tried it), its commitment to user anonymity (zero logs, payment methods, etc.), external audits, and the fact that it wasn't based in an EU member state (ivpn is a Gibraltar-based company).

    The last reason is that I live in the EU, which shouldn't be a problem for those who don't.

    Since then, I haven't bothered to check how the VPN industry has evolved. Thanks for the thorough answer.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Have you used any of the other stuff they offer like the dns or mail thing?

    I have only used their WireGuard config file -> into /etc/WireGuard simple kind of man setup.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    Nops, and I think that it's a bad move to change their business model to be a VPN provider to a catch-all security related provider, also I only have the standard tie which don't have the DNS, mail redirection or portmaster services.

    Furthermore, my threat model changed with the struggle for the independence of Catalonia, it put the state as my main adversary, and making them waste their time and resources with multiple subpoenas is a plus.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Idk if it’s a good business move, some of those kitchen sink providers can offer a user a lot of value. I’m perhaps not the target demographic for that.

    Completely off topic, but what kind of phone duress setup do you use? It’s not often I get to talk to someone who is primarily concerned about the state.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Given that I avoid services that require subscription, Mullvad had been off my list for years already, but this is just sad to hear. And even more now that the best are proven to be Nazis by act or by association, so I prefer to just keep using Proton's free tier for the time being and being more a hindrance than a money source for them as possible.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    they had "free" services like DNS and a decent browser.

    i'm using quad9 now.

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  • [+] 4 points 3 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Hey I made a big reply about this to someone else a while back but if you trust the news and what the police say then mullvad is safe.

    A long time ago they had port forwarding and pedophiles were allegedly using it to trade csam back and forth. Interpol got together with Swedish cops and did a warrant raid and came back empty handed. They had every legal ability to record user data and wiretap the servers but were unable to. Eventually Interpol pressured cdns and major providers to blacklist mullvad servers and rather than give up user information mullvad stopped offering port forwarding. A lot of people left them because of it.

    If you don’t trust what the cops say or what mullvad does then you still gotta see mullvad as safe.

    Why would the police put pressure on cdns to drop mullvad traffic if it’s a honeypot? That doesn’t make sense. If it’s a honeypot then why would mullvad drop port forwarding and lose tons of customers who rely on it for piracy? That also doesn’t make sense.

    As far as why anyone would ever pay a company to act as a proxy vpn, it’s to anonymize the traffic. Some vpn companies don’t have “accounts” with username (tied to email) and passwords, it’s just one secret, the account number. They might also take anonymous cash payment as well. In that case they can’t really do anything to give you up because they don’t know who you are.

    Like anything else it’s a negotiation of what degree of trust you accept. Many small metal shops around here are run out of a commercial type building next to the owners house. My favorite small fabricator is in a little building nowhere near his house (I found out because the neighbors dog was running loose and came up to get a pet and said “is this your dog?” And he said “I don’t even live on this road”). If you trust the people you do business with to not bother you at home then there’s no problem with them knowing your home address. If they never know it to begin with then you don’t need to consider or accept that level of trust.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Icevpn has been great for me.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Gee, I wonder what the far-right thinks about letting leftists speak freely?

    The conflation between a chud using mullvad vs using the profits from mullvad to fund a political party... Tf

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