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[–] 288 points 1 year ago (35 children)

MC: It's not us.

Steam & Itch: It's the payment processors.

Gee, I wonder who people are going to believe.

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  • [–] 207 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

    They are both telling the truth, which is how the best lies work.

    Mastercard: "It's all good as long as it is legal".

    Religious zealots: "Games depict sex with children!!!"

    Steam/Itch: "Which games?"

    Zealots: "Yes"

    Mastercard: "Sex with children is illegal. Get rid of those games."

    Steam/Itch: "Which games?????"

    Mastercard: "That's a you problem. Figure it out and get rid of them or lose the ability to process payments."

    Steam/Itch: *pulls most NSFW games while they figure out "which games"

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  • [–] 123 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Wouldn't it be nice if the payment processors required more than being really annoying to get something classified as possibly illegal?

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  • [–] 93 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    The United States is a VERY litigious country. The biggest motivator in America is profit, and the possibility of lawsuits is contrary to profit. Fucking over indie devs selling niche games that makes a few bucks on Steam is a lot cheaper than the legal expenses of a lawsuit and the bad press of "Mastercard funds child pornography".

    It isn't about fairness. It's about profit.

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  • [–] 59 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Kind of off topic, but this just activated one of my trap card rants,

    The problem is not that we're a litigious society, the problem is we make litigation artificially costly and time consuming by restricting the number of lawyers and judges we create and only trying to address the bottleneck that creates by making courts harder to access (e.g. increasing filing fees, giving defendants more ability to force things into arbitration kangaroo courts, etc.).

    Especially in light of how our courts have been just making up bullshit to let cops/soldiers/Republicans do whatever the fuck they since circa 1968/2001/2025, you can't tell me that people need as many years of education to practice law as we require in this country.

    Also, private bar associations are fucking weird, feudal era anti-democratic bullshit that ought to get replaced with proper public licensing agencies that are accountable to democratic systems and accessible to the public

    /end rant

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Single payer healthcare systems get all the political attention, but we really need a single payer judicial system. Basically public defenders but properly funded and for prosecution as well.

    The US judicial system is also particularly bad because each party is responsible for their own legal fees. Most of the world has the loser pay the winner's fees.

    American rule (attorney's fees) - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_rule_(attorney%27s_fees)

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Mastercard: “Sex with children is illegal. Get rid of those games.”

    Games depicting it aren't, which would be easy enough to state. Cool mental theater, though.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Well, everyone discussing this seems to have been confused about it. Is it fucking PayPal and Stripe or fucking Mastercard and Visa?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    It almost certainly wasnt the card brands forcing the issue. They outsource that stuff to payment processors and other middle men because it's cheaper and gives them some legal shielding if someone buys something illegal with their cards

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (14 children)

    Thing is…I think both claims are correct.

    Mastercard and Visa are not the only middle-men; the only “payment processors” involved in making sales.

    Next time you check out at a cafe, look at the branding of the tablet/software the cashier is using. Chances are, it wasn’t developed by the cafe owners, or by MC/Visa. That’s a payment processor. There’s some big ones out there that can be hard to avoid.

    EDIT: While finding exact point of blame remains difficult, a recent statement from Valve suggests I may be wrong about the card companies being innocent, at least with Mastercard. It’s a long chain and it seems each link wants to forward blame.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Practically no one in the world who accepts payments for their online business directly integrates with visa or Mastercard. It's all 3rd party companies who integrate (because it's fucking hard and tedious) and then resell it in a nice easy package.

    In almost all cases, any talk about payment processors, is them, not visa/Mastercard.

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  • Yup, most times when a business gets set up for accepting credit card payments they need to set up a bank, merchant account, gateway, those things integrate with the CC companies. Often they aren't even the same company so you're kind of dealing with a bunch of different entities. I'm not sure if I missed any other middlemen.

    The new thing is for the POS system / website / whatever to sell you the merchant account/gateway under their own systems so everything besides the bank and credit card companies are integrated through them (& they collect more money).

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I remember seeing a graphic that was about every layer of companies that are interacted with when you use a credit card. Must have been at least like 6 layers of companies each taking a fee from a company that took fees higher up the chain closer to the consumer. Similar when I read an explanation of, when you buy a stock through a company like Fidelity where is the stock actually held and that was layers of public/private companies/corporations

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    buy a stock through a company like Fidelity where is the stock actually held and that was layers of public/private companies/corporations

    The Depository Trust Company

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I learned that. It was the whole chain to get to that point and how that organization even came to be and how they came to be and how it's regulated that was a bit disgusting with how make shift it seemed to me. The whole stack all came off as a multi decade saga of stapling org on top of org until we came to the present of things mostly work but it's a bit fragile with a mix of public and private regulators trying to hold things together and make old paper systems work with modern technology

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    In online stores Visa and MC are the big ones. If we exclude China, Visa and MC make up 90% of all online purchases worldwide. For online stores they are the two players who matter. Losing one is a significant loss of revenue, losing both will kill the store.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    All of those devices are child companies of either Banks or Credit Card companies. Or, like Square, owe their continued existence to banking and wall st firms dumping cash on them.

    The one outlier I know about is Canada's Interac system, which was started by Canadian banks, but now is its own thing

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    That's not quite true.

    There are several layers between point of sale and the card brands and each layer is generally an independent company. Each of those companies makes or sells hardware and/or software that is used by the companies lower in the chain.

    Square takes up several of these layers at once and charges much higher fees than other processors. The high fees and massive market coverage is why they exist, not because they're chewing through VC funds still.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    According to wikipedia, where it listed the many rounds of VC and bank finding they have, they haven't yet made a profit

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Square is owned by Block Inc who is a publicly traded company. They made $190m net profit in Q1 2025

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    And they lost 541 million in 2023.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    And they were profitable in 2020 and 2021, what's your point?

    Companies lose money sometimes

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    MC and Visa are not technically payment processors, that would be stuff like stripe or ayden.

    The problem is that cc companies have rules that put the onus of ensuring nothing illegal is purchased with their issued cards on the ones actually meditating the transaction, so it becomes a chilling effect because the intermediaries don't want to risk burning a bridge with the largest cc networks in the world, and overcorrect as a result.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    cc companies

    best to say card networks, as cc companies both include a lot of other things (like issuers), and doesn’t include some things (like debit cards, which still use the card networks)

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