▲ 781 ▼ Holidays are going to be fun (lemmy.world) submitted 2 days ago by Mandarbmax@lemmy.world to c/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works 105 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] echo@lemmy.today 97 points 2 days ago (51 children) Who the fuck still does holidays with their MAGA relatives? permalink fedilink source hideshow 51 child comments replies: [–] teslekova@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 day ago (2 children) That's the weird thing. There's millions of people who would never hurt anybody up close and personal, but happy to keep hurting people far away by their choices. The same disconnect often applies to the negative consequences that hit them. In those cases, if they're family, and you're used to seeing them, you can find yourself having superficially friendly interactions, they will be genuinely happy to see you, etc... And they will vote for death camps without a single pang of conscience because it seems like the normal thing they've always done. I don't think they're the majority, but they're certainly numerous enough to be the primary enablers of a fascist takeover. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 9 points 1 day ago Yep... and the only way we de-normalize it is to quit passively allowing it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Seleni@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago* The ‘white moderate’ I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. —Dr. Martin Luther King Jr permalink fedilink source parent [–] csolisr@hub.azkware.net 47 points 2 days ago (4 children) The many people that can't afford living out of their parents' basement permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 day ago (2 children) Can't afford moving out of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] csolisr@hub.azkware.net 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child) Yeah, outside of their parents' basement permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Elgenzay@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 day ago To "live out of" can mean to live in, that's what confused them permalink fedilink source parent [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago That is a much more difficult situation... permalink fedilink source parent [–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago (2 children) I get dragged with. Really debating putting my foot down on the Mega church visit this Christmas though. Such a vile place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 2 points 23 hours ago (1 child) If you want to go to a church on Christmas, you should go to a legitimately Christian church. Regardless of whether you want to go to church on Christmas, you should avoid Christofascist churches. Christofascism is antithetical to Christianity. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 2 points 22 hours ago Around here we only believe in white supply side jebus. permalink fedilink source parent [–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago (2 children) Well... I get what you're saying, I really doi also thinknits a really bad idea. I've been seeing people banishing "the cazies" for like 3 decades now from Internet fora and I've been saying from the start that this will only breed bigger and bladder crazies. When with "us", we can ground them and avoid them going full retard. When we banish them, they will join together in some other place where they can make the rules themselves, breeding much worse crazies. The same goes IRL. I've been seeing exactly this I've rthe past decades, crazies joining together and becoming a much bigger,such worse problem to handle. Again, ibget your point but I'd rather have a crazy on a figurative leash where they can be controlled and stopped from iharming themselves or others, than crazies running wild permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago I don't disagree with your point overall, but there do seem to be plenty of kids that grow up despising their conservative parents' positions on politics. The question of whether they even want to spend time with their conservative family even implies this. It's also possible that they will be the last person they'd listen to, since conservative families can have a lot of contempt for each other and care more about the hierarchy than who is right. But that said, I fully agree that just cutting off people for being awful ends to driving them into the arms of other awful people. And if there's a lot of it, it can do things like get Trump elected because they are tired of being treated like the bad guys but get galvanized instead of discouraged. It's also the goal of the divide and conquer strategy the ruling class is using to make us easier to manage. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 0 points 1 day ago this will breed bigger and bladder crazies Bladder crazies? Everything's going to smell like piss. permalink fedilink source parent [–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 day ago (1 child) I want to see my sister and my niece. Other family shows up too, kinda hard to control that permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] MeThisGuy@feddit.nl 2 points 1 day ago a small edible (or giant bongrip) beforehand should do the trick permalink fedilink source parent [–] Voixe2@lemmy.blahaj.zone 26 points 1 day ago (33 children) Most healthy members of society dude 😭 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] chunk6235@piefed.social 11 points 1 day ago Yeah, super healthy to go hang out with people who want people like you bashished from society because of who you want to love 🙄 permalink fedilink source parent [–] Schmoo@startrek.website 10 points 1 day ago How "healthy" it is to attend holiday gatherings with your family depends entirely on your family's chud ratio. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (3 children) Yes, healthy members of society spend time with their pedophile supporting extending family. Right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Voixe2@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 day ago (2 children) I am not weak enough to give up on someone. Every meeting is a chance to educate them permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago Every meeting is a chance to educate them. As long as you use that opportunity to try to educate them, instead of inviting them over without holding them accountable. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago Holding people accountable for their horrible views isn't weak. What a weird take. permalink fedilink source parent [–] oatscoop@midwest.social 5 points 1 day ago (4 children) Not conservative, not "republican": MAGA. My MAGA relatives are some of the worst human beings I've met. Hateful, loud, dumb bigots that seem unable to act like a decent human being for more than a few minutes at a time. I've heard the shit they've let slip out and they meant (and mean) every word. They're not welcome in my home and I am sure as shit am not wasting my time on them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (3 children) Conservative, republican, and MAGA are interchangeable. You don't get to claim to be one without the others. They're all the same at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] oatscoop@midwest.social 5 points 1 day ago* (1 child) There are degrees of shitbaggery. There are people that can be redeemed without too much pain. Nobody is an angel: everyone has harmful views and does bad things -- it's just a question quantity and quality. As much as it sucks the reality is if we set the bar too high we're going to spend life alone ... and risk being a hypocrite as well. So we tolerate peoples failings as we hope they tolerate ours. We grow and redeem ourselves by learning of our flaws and blind spots from other people. That being said there's a line where its not worth it. Everyone has to decide where that is for themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago I can't believe so many people think it's just fine to engage with people that think I shouldn't exist, or that them holding those views is no big deal. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* American conservatism and American republicanism are interchangeable with MAGA. Being a "republican" means different things based on context. The American Republican party is interchangeable with MAGA. The same is generally true of conservatism, although modern conservatism is always a harmful ideology. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (13 children) Our families invite process is fairly simple. If you can't last family time during holiday without talking politics, you aren't invited. I think that's a fairly healthy ask. I think only one person was excluded from family planning/gathering due to it, but thankfully the feeling was mutual because they couldn't isolate their political side from their actual personality and as such didn't want to be in an environment where they couldn't talk politics anyway. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (10 children) Different scenario so therefore different rules. It may surprise some people on Lemmy but, not everyone that has a different political orientation is molesting children or some other extremity. Shocker I know. There's a time and a place for politics for either side. Family time isn't one. We don't want to be associated with people who can't respect that. Regardless of political orientation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move what did you expect it to be ignored? Either way I think you are trolling me so I'm disengaging. For context on their claim(which I had edited prior to their comment as it didn't really matter to the post): My original reply stated that just because someone is slightly right doesn't mean they molest kids. It had no place in the comment as it doesn't matter the reason: Politics have zero place at family time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today -2 points 1 day ago (3 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move I did no such thing. I said hold your fucking family accountable. Not doing so just because it "ruins thanksgiving dinner" is a piss-poor excuse. It's this playing nice with family members that allows them to continue comfortably being racists and/or pedophiles. Quit enabling them. Politics have zero place at family time. This is the most important time. When the fuck else are you going to do it? Jesus fucking christ, hold your family accountable for not being awful people. If you fail to do that then you, too, are an awful person. Maybe you didn't know that before, but now you do and you have no further excuse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (2 children) for not being awful people I think you meant "for being awful people". If I am correct, and that is what you meant, I agree with your sentiment that family time is the most important and useful time to hold family accountable, and that holding family accountable is a moral imperative. I did no such thing [a goalpost move]. I won't deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) I think you meant “for being awful people”. I stated it weirdly, but you got the intent. I won’t deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. No, I stated that people allow pedophilia to continue out of deference to keeping the peace within the family. I did not say maga == pedophiles. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* I did not say that MAGA == pedophiles. It reads as though you implied it when you said "everything is fine even if Uncle Steve is diddling your daughter (or son)" sardonically. But yes, you didn't say it outright. And yes, I agree that MAGA condones pedophilia. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. You have my complete agreement on this point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works [M] 4 points 1 day ago* (1 child) Chill, you're getting aggressive. I see you discussing in other areas, but please chill. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago Acknowledged and apologies... permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (1 child) Not everyone that has a different political orientation is molesting children or some other extremity. True. Family time isn’t a time and place for politics for either side. I believe people have a responsibility to hold family accountable. Politics rest on ethics, and supporters of the modern-day US Republican party have chosen hate over morality. A family gathering is an ideal time to hold family accountable. Naturally, exceptions should be made for events such as funerals and wakes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 0 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) I understand your opinion, and I do agree it's the family's responsibility to hold people accountable. However, there is a time and a place for everything. I firmly disagree that family bonding time during holiday is the time for it. And that feeling is mostly shared throughout my immediate family. I personally wouldn't attend family gatherings that were containing political talks, to be honest, It spits in the face of the entire point of family bonding time to try to be pushing a political sway and goes against the entire point of meeting for holiday which is family time bonding and having fun. those type of subjects generally cause more tension or isolation than bonding. So are better off as a more one-on-one than an entire family thing. A one-on-one also allows it to feel more organic. Someone is going to be way less receptive to any reasoning if they're being put on the spot during a family dinner than if you were to just approach them during casual free time. Results caused by peer pressure rarely work out in the long run, in order to discuss opposing views, you need to keep the person you're talking to open for discussion. Personally, I feel isolating out the family members who can't separate their political identity from their person is more than adequate for keeping family time as a bonding time instead of an infomercial/trying to pursuade people on differing opinions while getting the point across quite nicley. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago So your approach is just not talking about the problems? Very healthy. /s The "see no evil, speak no evil" crowd aren't much help to the downtrodden. /li permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] echo@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago (7 children) That's not healthy. That's enabling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] nocturne@piefed.social 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children) After Election Day 2024 I completely cut my republican father out of my life. He never was maga, but he was celebrating trimp's win (ironically by listening to a Woodie Guthrie cd I got him). I did not speak to him for almost a year and a half, then in April I found out he was going to group therapy. I am unsure of the exact nature of the GT but one of his friend's that is in the GT said it is to redeem them. We still do not have the close relationship that we used to have, and I doubt we ever will again. The crazy thing is he used to be a long haired hippie fighting for freedoms and protecting protesting the Vietnam war. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago It sucks when that has to happen, but good on you. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago (1 child) protecting the Vietnam war Protesting? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] nocturne@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago Yup! Hah permalink fedilink source parent [–] Voixe2@lemmy.blahaj.zone -2 points 1 day ago (2 children) That’s not x that’s y 😭 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 18 hours ago It's not a writing trend — it's an experience. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago That's normal English phrasing. permalink fedilink source parent [–] a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world 1 point 15 hours ago I've barely spoken to most of my family for two years. It's really quiet. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] teslekova@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 day ago (2 children) That's the weird thing. There's millions of people who would never hurt anybody up close and personal, but happy to keep hurting people far away by their choices. The same disconnect often applies to the negative consequences that hit them. In those cases, if they're family, and you're used to seeing them, you can find yourself having superficially friendly interactions, they will be genuinely happy to see you, etc... And they will vote for death camps without a single pang of conscience because it seems like the normal thing they've always done. I don't think they're the majority, but they're certainly numerous enough to be the primary enablers of a fascist takeover. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 9 points 1 day ago Yep... and the only way we de-normalize it is to quit passively allowing it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Seleni@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago* The ‘white moderate’ I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. —Dr. Martin Luther King Jr permalink fedilink source parent
[–] echo@lemmy.today 9 points 1 day ago Yep... and the only way we de-normalize it is to quit passively allowing it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Seleni@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago* The ‘white moderate’ I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. —Dr. Martin Luther King Jr permalink fedilink source parent
[–] csolisr@hub.azkware.net 47 points 2 days ago (4 children) The many people that can't afford living out of their parents' basement permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 day ago (2 children) Can't afford moving out of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] csolisr@hub.azkware.net 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child) Yeah, outside of their parents' basement permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Elgenzay@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 day ago To "live out of" can mean to live in, that's what confused them permalink fedilink source parent [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago That is a much more difficult situation... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 day ago (2 children) Can't afford moving out of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] csolisr@hub.azkware.net 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child) Yeah, outside of their parents' basement permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Elgenzay@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 day ago To "live out of" can mean to live in, that's what confused them permalink fedilink source parent
[–] csolisr@hub.azkware.net 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child) Yeah, outside of their parents' basement permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Elgenzay@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 day ago To "live out of" can mean to live in, that's what confused them permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Elgenzay@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 day ago To "live out of" can mean to live in, that's what confused them permalink fedilink source parent
[–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago That is a much more difficult situation... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago (2 children) I get dragged with. Really debating putting my foot down on the Mega church visit this Christmas though. Such a vile place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 2 points 23 hours ago (1 child) If you want to go to a church on Christmas, you should go to a legitimately Christian church. Regardless of whether you want to go to church on Christmas, you should avoid Christofascist churches. Christofascism is antithetical to Christianity. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 2 points 22 hours ago Around here we only believe in white supply side jebus. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 2 points 23 hours ago (1 child) If you want to go to a church on Christmas, you should go to a legitimately Christian church. Regardless of whether you want to go to church on Christmas, you should avoid Christofascist churches. Christofascism is antithetical to Christianity. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 2 points 22 hours ago Around here we only believe in white supply side jebus. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 2 points 22 hours ago Around here we only believe in white supply side jebus. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago (2 children) Well... I get what you're saying, I really doi also thinknits a really bad idea. I've been seeing people banishing "the cazies" for like 3 decades now from Internet fora and I've been saying from the start that this will only breed bigger and bladder crazies. When with "us", we can ground them and avoid them going full retard. When we banish them, they will join together in some other place where they can make the rules themselves, breeding much worse crazies. The same goes IRL. I've been seeing exactly this I've rthe past decades, crazies joining together and becoming a much bigger,such worse problem to handle. Again, ibget your point but I'd rather have a crazy on a figurative leash where they can be controlled and stopped from iharming themselves or others, than crazies running wild permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago I don't disagree with your point overall, but there do seem to be plenty of kids that grow up despising their conservative parents' positions on politics. The question of whether they even want to spend time with their conservative family even implies this. It's also possible that they will be the last person they'd listen to, since conservative families can have a lot of contempt for each other and care more about the hierarchy than who is right. But that said, I fully agree that just cutting off people for being awful ends to driving them into the arms of other awful people. And if there's a lot of it, it can do things like get Trump elected because they are tired of being treated like the bad guys but get galvanized instead of discouraged. It's also the goal of the divide and conquer strategy the ruling class is using to make us easier to manage. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 0 points 1 day ago this will breed bigger and bladder crazies Bladder crazies? Everything's going to smell like piss. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago I don't disagree with your point overall, but there do seem to be plenty of kids that grow up despising their conservative parents' positions on politics. The question of whether they even want to spend time with their conservative family even implies this. It's also possible that they will be the last person they'd listen to, since conservative families can have a lot of contempt for each other and care more about the hierarchy than who is right. But that said, I fully agree that just cutting off people for being awful ends to driving them into the arms of other awful people. And if there's a lot of it, it can do things like get Trump elected because they are tired of being treated like the bad guys but get galvanized instead of discouraged. It's also the goal of the divide and conquer strategy the ruling class is using to make us easier to manage. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 0 points 1 day ago this will breed bigger and bladder crazies Bladder crazies? Everything's going to smell like piss. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 day ago (1 child) I want to see my sister and my niece. Other family shows up too, kinda hard to control that permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] MeThisGuy@feddit.nl 2 points 1 day ago a small edible (or giant bongrip) beforehand should do the trick permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MeThisGuy@feddit.nl 2 points 1 day ago a small edible (or giant bongrip) beforehand should do the trick permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Voixe2@lemmy.blahaj.zone 26 points 1 day ago (33 children) Most healthy members of society dude 😭 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] chunk6235@piefed.social 11 points 1 day ago Yeah, super healthy to go hang out with people who want people like you bashished from society because of who you want to love 🙄 permalink fedilink source parent [–] Schmoo@startrek.website 10 points 1 day ago How "healthy" it is to attend holiday gatherings with your family depends entirely on your family's chud ratio. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (3 children) Yes, healthy members of society spend time with their pedophile supporting extending family. Right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Voixe2@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 day ago (2 children) I am not weak enough to give up on someone. Every meeting is a chance to educate them permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago Every meeting is a chance to educate them. As long as you use that opportunity to try to educate them, instead of inviting them over without holding them accountable. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago Holding people accountable for their horrible views isn't weak. What a weird take. permalink fedilink source parent [–] oatscoop@midwest.social 5 points 1 day ago (4 children) Not conservative, not "republican": MAGA. My MAGA relatives are some of the worst human beings I've met. Hateful, loud, dumb bigots that seem unable to act like a decent human being for more than a few minutes at a time. I've heard the shit they've let slip out and they meant (and mean) every word. They're not welcome in my home and I am sure as shit am not wasting my time on them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (3 children) Conservative, republican, and MAGA are interchangeable. You don't get to claim to be one without the others. They're all the same at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] oatscoop@midwest.social 5 points 1 day ago* (1 child) There are degrees of shitbaggery. There are people that can be redeemed without too much pain. Nobody is an angel: everyone has harmful views and does bad things -- it's just a question quantity and quality. As much as it sucks the reality is if we set the bar too high we're going to spend life alone ... and risk being a hypocrite as well. So we tolerate peoples failings as we hope they tolerate ours. We grow and redeem ourselves by learning of our flaws and blind spots from other people. That being said there's a line where its not worth it. Everyone has to decide where that is for themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago I can't believe so many people think it's just fine to engage with people that think I shouldn't exist, or that them holding those views is no big deal. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* American conservatism and American republicanism are interchangeable with MAGA. Being a "republican" means different things based on context. The American Republican party is interchangeable with MAGA. The same is generally true of conservatism, although modern conservatism is always a harmful ideology. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (13 children) Our families invite process is fairly simple. If you can't last family time during holiday without talking politics, you aren't invited. I think that's a fairly healthy ask. I think only one person was excluded from family planning/gathering due to it, but thankfully the feeling was mutual because they couldn't isolate their political side from their actual personality and as such didn't want to be in an environment where they couldn't talk politics anyway. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (10 children) Different scenario so therefore different rules. It may surprise some people on Lemmy but, not everyone that has a different political orientation is molesting children or some other extremity. Shocker I know. There's a time and a place for politics for either side. Family time isn't one. We don't want to be associated with people who can't respect that. Regardless of political orientation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move what did you expect it to be ignored? Either way I think you are trolling me so I'm disengaging. For context on their claim(which I had edited prior to their comment as it didn't really matter to the post): My original reply stated that just because someone is slightly right doesn't mean they molest kids. It had no place in the comment as it doesn't matter the reason: Politics have zero place at family time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today -2 points 1 day ago (3 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move I did no such thing. I said hold your fucking family accountable. Not doing so just because it "ruins thanksgiving dinner" is a piss-poor excuse. It's this playing nice with family members that allows them to continue comfortably being racists and/or pedophiles. Quit enabling them. Politics have zero place at family time. This is the most important time. When the fuck else are you going to do it? Jesus fucking christ, hold your family accountable for not being awful people. If you fail to do that then you, too, are an awful person. Maybe you didn't know that before, but now you do and you have no further excuse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (2 children) for not being awful people I think you meant "for being awful people". If I am correct, and that is what you meant, I agree with your sentiment that family time is the most important and useful time to hold family accountable, and that holding family accountable is a moral imperative. I did no such thing [a goalpost move]. I won't deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) I think you meant “for being awful people”. I stated it weirdly, but you got the intent. I won’t deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. No, I stated that people allow pedophilia to continue out of deference to keeping the peace within the family. I did not say maga == pedophiles. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* I did not say that MAGA == pedophiles. It reads as though you implied it when you said "everything is fine even if Uncle Steve is diddling your daughter (or son)" sardonically. But yes, you didn't say it outright. And yes, I agree that MAGA condones pedophilia. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. You have my complete agreement on this point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works [M] 4 points 1 day ago* (1 child) Chill, you're getting aggressive. I see you discussing in other areas, but please chill. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago Acknowledged and apologies... permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (1 child) Not everyone that has a different political orientation is molesting children or some other extremity. True. Family time isn’t a time and place for politics for either side. I believe people have a responsibility to hold family accountable. Politics rest on ethics, and supporters of the modern-day US Republican party have chosen hate over morality. A family gathering is an ideal time to hold family accountable. Naturally, exceptions should be made for events such as funerals and wakes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 0 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) I understand your opinion, and I do agree it's the family's responsibility to hold people accountable. However, there is a time and a place for everything. I firmly disagree that family bonding time during holiday is the time for it. And that feeling is mostly shared throughout my immediate family. I personally wouldn't attend family gatherings that were containing political talks, to be honest, It spits in the face of the entire point of family bonding time to try to be pushing a political sway and goes against the entire point of meeting for holiday which is family time bonding and having fun. those type of subjects generally cause more tension or isolation than bonding. So are better off as a more one-on-one than an entire family thing. A one-on-one also allows it to feel more organic. Someone is going to be way less receptive to any reasoning if they're being put on the spot during a family dinner than if you were to just approach them during casual free time. Results caused by peer pressure rarely work out in the long run, in order to discuss opposing views, you need to keep the person you're talking to open for discussion. Personally, I feel isolating out the family members who can't separate their political identity from their person is more than adequate for keeping family time as a bonding time instead of an infomercial/trying to pursuade people on differing opinions while getting the point across quite nicley. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago So your approach is just not talking about the problems? Very healthy. /s The "see no evil, speak no evil" crowd aren't much help to the downtrodden. /li permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] echo@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago (7 children) That's not healthy. That's enabling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] nocturne@piefed.social 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children) After Election Day 2024 I completely cut my republican father out of my life. He never was maga, but he was celebrating trimp's win (ironically by listening to a Woodie Guthrie cd I got him). I did not speak to him for almost a year and a half, then in April I found out he was going to group therapy. I am unsure of the exact nature of the GT but one of his friend's that is in the GT said it is to redeem them. We still do not have the close relationship that we used to have, and I doubt we ever will again. The crazy thing is he used to be a long haired hippie fighting for freedoms and protecting protesting the Vietnam war. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago It sucks when that has to happen, but good on you. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago (1 child) protecting the Vietnam war Protesting? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] nocturne@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago Yup! Hah permalink fedilink source parent [–] Voixe2@lemmy.blahaj.zone -2 points 1 day ago (2 children) That’s not x that’s y 😭 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 18 hours ago It's not a writing trend — it's an experience. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago That's normal English phrasing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] chunk6235@piefed.social 11 points 1 day ago Yeah, super healthy to go hang out with people who want people like you bashished from society because of who you want to love 🙄 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Schmoo@startrek.website 10 points 1 day ago How "healthy" it is to attend holiday gatherings with your family depends entirely on your family's chud ratio. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (3 children) Yes, healthy members of society spend time with their pedophile supporting extending family. Right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Voixe2@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 day ago (2 children) I am not weak enough to give up on someone. Every meeting is a chance to educate them permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago Every meeting is a chance to educate them. As long as you use that opportunity to try to educate them, instead of inviting them over without holding them accountable. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago Holding people accountable for their horrible views isn't weak. What a weird take. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Voixe2@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 day ago (2 children) I am not weak enough to give up on someone. Every meeting is a chance to educate them permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago Every meeting is a chance to educate them. As long as you use that opportunity to try to educate them, instead of inviting them over without holding them accountable. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago Holding people accountable for their horrible views isn't weak. What a weird take. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago Every meeting is a chance to educate them. As long as you use that opportunity to try to educate them, instead of inviting them over without holding them accountable. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago Holding people accountable for their horrible views isn't weak. What a weird take. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] oatscoop@midwest.social 5 points 1 day ago (4 children) Not conservative, not "republican": MAGA. My MAGA relatives are some of the worst human beings I've met. Hateful, loud, dumb bigots that seem unable to act like a decent human being for more than a few minutes at a time. I've heard the shit they've let slip out and they meant (and mean) every word. They're not welcome in my home and I am sure as shit am not wasting my time on them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (3 children) Conservative, republican, and MAGA are interchangeable. You don't get to claim to be one without the others. They're all the same at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] oatscoop@midwest.social 5 points 1 day ago* (1 child) There are degrees of shitbaggery. There are people that can be redeemed without too much pain. Nobody is an angel: everyone has harmful views and does bad things -- it's just a question quantity and quality. As much as it sucks the reality is if we set the bar too high we're going to spend life alone ... and risk being a hypocrite as well. So we tolerate peoples failings as we hope they tolerate ours. We grow and redeem ourselves by learning of our flaws and blind spots from other people. That being said there's a line where its not worth it. Everyone has to decide where that is for themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago I can't believe so many people think it's just fine to engage with people that think I shouldn't exist, or that them holding those views is no big deal. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* American conservatism and American republicanism are interchangeable with MAGA. Being a "republican" means different things based on context. The American Republican party is interchangeable with MAGA. The same is generally true of conservatism, although modern conservatism is always a harmful ideology. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (3 children) Conservative, republican, and MAGA are interchangeable. You don't get to claim to be one without the others. They're all the same at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] oatscoop@midwest.social 5 points 1 day ago* (1 child) There are degrees of shitbaggery. There are people that can be redeemed without too much pain. Nobody is an angel: everyone has harmful views and does bad things -- it's just a question quantity and quality. As much as it sucks the reality is if we set the bar too high we're going to spend life alone ... and risk being a hypocrite as well. So we tolerate peoples failings as we hope they tolerate ours. We grow and redeem ourselves by learning of our flaws and blind spots from other people. That being said there's a line where its not worth it. Everyone has to decide where that is for themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago I can't believe so many people think it's just fine to engage with people that think I shouldn't exist, or that them holding those views is no big deal. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* American conservatism and American republicanism are interchangeable with MAGA. Being a "republican" means different things based on context. The American Republican party is interchangeable with MAGA. The same is generally true of conservatism, although modern conservatism is always a harmful ideology. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] oatscoop@midwest.social 5 points 1 day ago* (1 child) There are degrees of shitbaggery. There are people that can be redeemed without too much pain. Nobody is an angel: everyone has harmful views and does bad things -- it's just a question quantity and quality. As much as it sucks the reality is if we set the bar too high we're going to spend life alone ... and risk being a hypocrite as well. So we tolerate peoples failings as we hope they tolerate ours. We grow and redeem ourselves by learning of our flaws and blind spots from other people. That being said there's a line where its not worth it. Everyone has to decide where that is for themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago I can't believe so many people think it's just fine to engage with people that think I shouldn't exist, or that them holding those views is no big deal. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] edible_funk@lemmy.world 1 point 23 hours ago I can't believe so many people think it's just fine to engage with people that think I shouldn't exist, or that them holding those views is no big deal. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* American conservatism and American republicanism are interchangeable with MAGA. Being a "republican" means different things based on context. The American Republican party is interchangeable with MAGA. The same is generally true of conservatism, although modern conservatism is always a harmful ideology. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (13 children) Our families invite process is fairly simple. If you can't last family time during holiday without talking politics, you aren't invited. I think that's a fairly healthy ask. I think only one person was excluded from family planning/gathering due to it, but thankfully the feeling was mutual because they couldn't isolate their political side from their actual personality and as such didn't want to be in an environment where they couldn't talk politics anyway. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (10 children) Different scenario so therefore different rules. It may surprise some people on Lemmy but, not everyone that has a different political orientation is molesting children or some other extremity. Shocker I know. There's a time and a place for politics for either side. Family time isn't one. We don't want to be associated with people who can't respect that. Regardless of political orientation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move what did you expect it to be ignored? Either way I think you are trolling me so I'm disengaging. For context on their claim(which I had edited prior to their comment as it didn't really matter to the post): My original reply stated that just because someone is slightly right doesn't mean they molest kids. It had no place in the comment as it doesn't matter the reason: Politics have zero place at family time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today -2 points 1 day ago (3 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move I did no such thing. I said hold your fucking family accountable. Not doing so just because it "ruins thanksgiving dinner" is a piss-poor excuse. It's this playing nice with family members that allows them to continue comfortably being racists and/or pedophiles. Quit enabling them. Politics have zero place at family time. This is the most important time. When the fuck else are you going to do it? Jesus fucking christ, hold your family accountable for not being awful people. If you fail to do that then you, too, are an awful person. Maybe you didn't know that before, but now you do and you have no further excuse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (2 children) for not being awful people I think you meant "for being awful people". If I am correct, and that is what you meant, I agree with your sentiment that family time is the most important and useful time to hold family accountable, and that holding family accountable is a moral imperative. I did no such thing [a goalpost move]. I won't deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) I think you meant “for being awful people”. I stated it weirdly, but you got the intent. I won’t deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. No, I stated that people allow pedophilia to continue out of deference to keeping the peace within the family. I did not say maga == pedophiles. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* I did not say that MAGA == pedophiles. It reads as though you implied it when you said "everything is fine even if Uncle Steve is diddling your daughter (or son)" sardonically. But yes, you didn't say it outright. And yes, I agree that MAGA condones pedophilia. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. You have my complete agreement on this point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works [M] 4 points 1 day ago* (1 child) Chill, you're getting aggressive. I see you discussing in other areas, but please chill. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago Acknowledged and apologies... permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (1 child) Not everyone that has a different political orientation is molesting children or some other extremity. True. Family time isn’t a time and place for politics for either side. I believe people have a responsibility to hold family accountable. Politics rest on ethics, and supporters of the modern-day US Republican party have chosen hate over morality. A family gathering is an ideal time to hold family accountable. Naturally, exceptions should be made for events such as funerals and wakes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 0 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) I understand your opinion, and I do agree it's the family's responsibility to hold people accountable. However, there is a time and a place for everything. I firmly disagree that family bonding time during holiday is the time for it. And that feeling is mostly shared throughout my immediate family. I personally wouldn't attend family gatherings that were containing political talks, to be honest, It spits in the face of the entire point of family bonding time to try to be pushing a political sway and goes against the entire point of meeting for holiday which is family time bonding and having fun. those type of subjects generally cause more tension or isolation than bonding. So are better off as a more one-on-one than an entire family thing. A one-on-one also allows it to feel more organic. Someone is going to be way less receptive to any reasoning if they're being put on the spot during a family dinner than if you were to just approach them during casual free time. Results caused by peer pressure rarely work out in the long run, in order to discuss opposing views, you need to keep the person you're talking to open for discussion. Personally, I feel isolating out the family members who can't separate their political identity from their person is more than adequate for keeping family time as a bonding time instead of an infomercial/trying to pursuade people on differing opinions while getting the point across quite nicley. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago So your approach is just not talking about the problems? Very healthy. /s The "see no evil, speak no evil" crowd aren't much help to the downtrodden. /li permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (10 children) Different scenario so therefore different rules. It may surprise some people on Lemmy but, not everyone that has a different political orientation is molesting children or some other extremity. Shocker I know. There's a time and a place for politics for either side. Family time isn't one. We don't want to be associated with people who can't respect that. Regardless of political orientation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move what did you expect it to be ignored? Either way I think you are trolling me so I'm disengaging. For context on their claim(which I had edited prior to their comment as it didn't really matter to the post): My original reply stated that just because someone is slightly right doesn't mean they molest kids. It had no place in the comment as it doesn't matter the reason: Politics have zero place at family time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today -2 points 1 day ago (3 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move I did no such thing. I said hold your fucking family accountable. Not doing so just because it "ruins thanksgiving dinner" is a piss-poor excuse. It's this playing nice with family members that allows them to continue comfortably being racists and/or pedophiles. Quit enabling them. Politics have zero place at family time. This is the most important time. When the fuck else are you going to do it? Jesus fucking christ, hold your family accountable for not being awful people. If you fail to do that then you, too, are an awful person. Maybe you didn't know that before, but now you do and you have no further excuse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (2 children) for not being awful people I think you meant "for being awful people". If I am correct, and that is what you meant, I agree with your sentiment that family time is the most important and useful time to hold family accountable, and that holding family accountable is a moral imperative. I did no such thing [a goalpost move]. I won't deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) I think you meant “for being awful people”. I stated it weirdly, but you got the intent. I won’t deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. No, I stated that people allow pedophilia to continue out of deference to keeping the peace within the family. I did not say maga == pedophiles. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* I did not say that MAGA == pedophiles. It reads as though you implied it when you said "everything is fine even if Uncle Steve is diddling your daughter (or son)" sardonically. But yes, you didn't say it outright. And yes, I agree that MAGA condones pedophilia. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. You have my complete agreement on this point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works [M] 4 points 1 day ago* (1 child) Chill, you're getting aggressive. I see you discussing in other areas, but please chill. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago Acknowledged and apologies... permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (1 child) Not everyone that has a different political orientation is molesting children or some other extremity. True. Family time isn’t a time and place for politics for either side. I believe people have a responsibility to hold family accountable. Politics rest on ethics, and supporters of the modern-day US Republican party have chosen hate over morality. A family gathering is an ideal time to hold family accountable. Naturally, exceptions should be made for events such as funerals and wakes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 0 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) I understand your opinion, and I do agree it's the family's responsibility to hold people accountable. However, there is a time and a place for everything. I firmly disagree that family bonding time during holiday is the time for it. And that feeling is mostly shared throughout my immediate family. I personally wouldn't attend family gatherings that were containing political talks, to be honest, It spits in the face of the entire point of family bonding time to try to be pushing a political sway and goes against the entire point of meeting for holiday which is family time bonding and having fun. those type of subjects generally cause more tension or isolation than bonding. So are better off as a more one-on-one than an entire family thing. A one-on-one also allows it to feel more organic. Someone is going to be way less receptive to any reasoning if they're being put on the spot during a family dinner than if you were to just approach them during casual free time. Results caused by peer pressure rarely work out in the long run, in order to discuss opposing views, you need to keep the person you're talking to open for discussion. Personally, I feel isolating out the family members who can't separate their political identity from their person is more than adequate for keeping family time as a bonding time instead of an infomercial/trying to pursuade people on differing opinions while getting the point across quite nicley. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (10 children) Different scenario so therefore different rules. It may surprise some people on Lemmy but, not everyone that has a different political orientation is molesting children or some other extremity. Shocker I know. There's a time and a place for politics for either side. Family time isn't one. We don't want to be associated with people who can't respect that. Regardless of political orientation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move what did you expect it to be ignored? Either way I think you are trolling me so I'm disengaging. For context on their claim(which I had edited prior to their comment as it didn't really matter to the post): My original reply stated that just because someone is slightly right doesn't mean they molest kids. It had no place in the comment as it doesn't matter the reason: Politics have zero place at family time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today -2 points 1 day ago (3 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move I did no such thing. I said hold your fucking family accountable. Not doing so just because it "ruins thanksgiving dinner" is a piss-poor excuse. It's this playing nice with family members that allows them to continue comfortably being racists and/or pedophiles. Quit enabling them. Politics have zero place at family time. This is the most important time. When the fuck else are you going to do it? Jesus fucking christ, hold your family accountable for not being awful people. If you fail to do that then you, too, are an awful person. Maybe you didn't know that before, but now you do and you have no further excuse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (2 children) for not being awful people I think you meant "for being awful people". If I am correct, and that is what you meant, I agree with your sentiment that family time is the most important and useful time to hold family accountable, and that holding family accountable is a moral imperative. I did no such thing [a goalpost move]. I won't deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) I think you meant “for being awful people”. I stated it weirdly, but you got the intent. I won’t deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. No, I stated that people allow pedophilia to continue out of deference to keeping the peace within the family. I did not say maga == pedophiles. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* I did not say that MAGA == pedophiles. It reads as though you implied it when you said "everything is fine even if Uncle Steve is diddling your daughter (or son)" sardonically. But yes, you didn't say it outright. And yes, I agree that MAGA condones pedophilia. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. You have my complete agreement on this point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works [M] 4 points 1 day ago* (1 child) Chill, you're getting aggressive. I see you discussing in other areas, but please chill. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago Acknowledged and apologies... permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (1 child) Not everyone that has a different political orientation is molesting children or some other extremity. True. Family time isn’t a time and place for politics for either side. I believe people have a responsibility to hold family accountable. Politics rest on ethics, and supporters of the modern-day US Republican party have chosen hate over morality. A family gathering is an ideal time to hold family accountable. Naturally, exceptions should be made for events such as funerals and wakes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 0 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) I understand your opinion, and I do agree it's the family's responsibility to hold people accountable. However, there is a time and a place for everything. I firmly disagree that family bonding time during holiday is the time for it. And that feeling is mostly shared throughout my immediate family. I personally wouldn't attend family gatherings that were containing political talks, to be honest, It spits in the face of the entire point of family bonding time to try to be pushing a political sway and goes against the entire point of meeting for holiday which is family time bonding and having fun. those type of subjects generally cause more tension or isolation than bonding. So are better off as a more one-on-one than an entire family thing. A one-on-one also allows it to feel more organic. Someone is going to be way less receptive to any reasoning if they're being put on the spot during a family dinner than if you were to just approach them during casual free time. Results caused by peer pressure rarely work out in the long run, in order to discuss opposing views, you need to keep the person you're talking to open for discussion. Personally, I feel isolating out the family members who can't separate their political identity from their person is more than adequate for keeping family time as a bonding time instead of an infomercial/trying to pursuade people on differing opinions while getting the point across quite nicley. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move what did you expect it to be ignored? Either way I think you are trolling me so I'm disengaging. For context on their claim(which I had edited prior to their comment as it didn't really matter to the post): My original reply stated that just because someone is slightly right doesn't mean they molest kids. It had no place in the comment as it doesn't matter the reason: Politics have zero place at family time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today -2 points 1 day ago (3 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move I did no such thing. I said hold your fucking family accountable. Not doing so just because it "ruins thanksgiving dinner" is a piss-poor excuse. It's this playing nice with family members that allows them to continue comfortably being racists and/or pedophiles. Quit enabling them. Politics have zero place at family time. This is the most important time. When the fuck else are you going to do it? Jesus fucking christ, hold your family accountable for not being awful people. If you fail to do that then you, too, are an awful person. Maybe you didn't know that before, but now you do and you have no further excuse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (2 children) for not being awful people I think you meant "for being awful people". If I am correct, and that is what you meant, I agree with your sentiment that family time is the most important and useful time to hold family accountable, and that holding family accountable is a moral imperative. I did no such thing [a goalpost move]. I won't deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) I think you meant “for being awful people”. I stated it weirdly, but you got the intent. I won’t deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. No, I stated that people allow pedophilia to continue out of deference to keeping the peace within the family. I did not say maga == pedophiles. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* I did not say that MAGA == pedophiles. It reads as though you implied it when you said "everything is fine even if Uncle Steve is diddling your daughter (or son)" sardonically. But yes, you didn't say it outright. And yes, I agree that MAGA condones pedophilia. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. You have my complete agreement on this point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works [M] 4 points 1 day ago* (1 child) Chill, you're getting aggressive. I see you discussing in other areas, but please chill. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago Acknowledged and apologies... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move what did you expect it to be ignored? Either way I think you are trolling me so I'm disengaging. For context on their claim(which I had edited prior to their comment as it didn't really matter to the post): My original reply stated that just because someone is slightly right doesn't mean they molest kids. It had no place in the comment as it doesn't matter the reason: Politics have zero place at family time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today -2 points 1 day ago (3 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move I did no such thing. I said hold your fucking family accountable. Not doing so just because it "ruins thanksgiving dinner" is a piss-poor excuse. It's this playing nice with family members that allows them to continue comfortably being racists and/or pedophiles. Quit enabling them. Politics have zero place at family time. This is the most important time. When the fuck else are you going to do it? Jesus fucking christ, hold your family accountable for not being awful people. If you fail to do that then you, too, are an awful person. Maybe you didn't know that before, but now you do and you have no further excuse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (2 children) for not being awful people I think you meant "for being awful people". If I am correct, and that is what you meant, I agree with your sentiment that family time is the most important and useful time to hold family accountable, and that holding family accountable is a moral imperative. I did no such thing [a goalpost move]. I won't deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) I think you meant “for being awful people”. I stated it weirdly, but you got the intent. I won’t deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. No, I stated that people allow pedophilia to continue out of deference to keeping the peace within the family. I did not say maga == pedophiles. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* I did not say that MAGA == pedophiles. It reads as though you implied it when you said "everything is fine even if Uncle Steve is diddling your daughter (or son)" sardonically. But yes, you didn't say it outright. And yes, I agree that MAGA condones pedophilia. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. You have my complete agreement on this point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] echo@lemmy.today -2 points 1 day ago (3 children) you initiated the reply with a goalpost move I did no such thing. I said hold your fucking family accountable. Not doing so just because it "ruins thanksgiving dinner" is a piss-poor excuse. It's this playing nice with family members that allows them to continue comfortably being racists and/or pedophiles. Quit enabling them. Politics have zero place at family time. This is the most important time. When the fuck else are you going to do it? Jesus fucking christ, hold your family accountable for not being awful people. If you fail to do that then you, too, are an awful person. Maybe you didn't know that before, but now you do and you have no further excuse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (2 children) for not being awful people I think you meant "for being awful people". If I am correct, and that is what you meant, I agree with your sentiment that family time is the most important and useful time to hold family accountable, and that holding family accountable is a moral imperative. I did no such thing [a goalpost move]. I won't deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) I think you meant “for being awful people”. I stated it weirdly, but you got the intent. I won’t deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. No, I stated that people allow pedophilia to continue out of deference to keeping the peace within the family. I did not say maga == pedophiles. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* I did not say that MAGA == pedophiles. It reads as though you implied it when you said "everything is fine even if Uncle Steve is diddling your daughter (or son)" sardonically. But yes, you didn't say it outright. And yes, I agree that MAGA condones pedophilia. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. You have my complete agreement on this point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (2 children) for not being awful people I think you meant "for being awful people". If I am correct, and that is what you meant, I agree with your sentiment that family time is the most important and useful time to hold family accountable, and that holding family accountable is a moral imperative. I did no such thing [a goalpost move]. I won't deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) I think you meant “for being awful people”. I stated it weirdly, but you got the intent. I won’t deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. No, I stated that people allow pedophilia to continue out of deference to keeping the peace within the family. I did not say maga == pedophiles. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* I did not say that MAGA == pedophiles. It reads as though you implied it when you said "everything is fine even if Uncle Steve is diddling your daughter (or son)" sardonically. But yes, you didn't say it outright. And yes, I agree that MAGA condones pedophilia. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. You have my complete agreement on this point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child) I think you meant “for being awful people”. I stated it weirdly, but you got the intent. I won’t deny that American conservatism protects pedophiles. But you equated conservatism with committing direct molestation of a child, which was a goalpost move. No, I stated that people allow pedophilia to continue out of deference to keeping the peace within the family. I did not say maga == pedophiles. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* I did not say that MAGA == pedophiles. It reads as though you implied it when you said "everything is fine even if Uncle Steve is diddling your daughter (or son)" sardonically. But yes, you didn't say it outright. And yes, I agree that MAGA condones pedophilia. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. You have my complete agreement on this point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* I did not say that MAGA == pedophiles. It reads as though you implied it when you said "everything is fine even if Uncle Steve is diddling your daughter (or son)" sardonically. But yes, you didn't say it outright. And yes, I agree that MAGA condones pedophilia. Refusing to have difficult conversations with family members to hold them accountable allows the bad behavior to continue without challenge or consequence. You have my complete agreement on this point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works [M] 4 points 1 day ago* (1 child) Chill, you're getting aggressive. I see you discussing in other areas, but please chill. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago Acknowledged and apologies... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] echo@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago Acknowledged and apologies... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago* (1 child) Not everyone that has a different political orientation is molesting children or some other extremity. True. Family time isn’t a time and place for politics for either side. I believe people have a responsibility to hold family accountable. Politics rest on ethics, and supporters of the modern-day US Republican party have chosen hate over morality. A family gathering is an ideal time to hold family accountable. Naturally, exceptions should be made for events such as funerals and wakes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 0 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) I understand your opinion, and I do agree it's the family's responsibility to hold people accountable. However, there is a time and a place for everything. I firmly disagree that family bonding time during holiday is the time for it. And that feeling is mostly shared throughout my immediate family. I personally wouldn't attend family gatherings that were containing political talks, to be honest, It spits in the face of the entire point of family bonding time to try to be pushing a political sway and goes against the entire point of meeting for holiday which is family time bonding and having fun. those type of subjects generally cause more tension or isolation than bonding. So are better off as a more one-on-one than an entire family thing. A one-on-one also allows it to feel more organic. Someone is going to be way less receptive to any reasoning if they're being put on the spot during a family dinner than if you were to just approach them during casual free time. Results caused by peer pressure rarely work out in the long run, in order to discuss opposing views, you need to keep the person you're talking to open for discussion. Personally, I feel isolating out the family members who can't separate their political identity from their person is more than adequate for keeping family time as a bonding time instead of an infomercial/trying to pursuade people on differing opinions while getting the point across quite nicley. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 0 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) I understand your opinion, and I do agree it's the family's responsibility to hold people accountable. However, there is a time and a place for everything. I firmly disagree that family bonding time during holiday is the time for it. And that feeling is mostly shared throughout my immediate family. I personally wouldn't attend family gatherings that were containing political talks, to be honest, It spits in the face of the entire point of family bonding time to try to be pushing a political sway and goes against the entire point of meeting for holiday which is family time bonding and having fun. those type of subjects generally cause more tension or isolation than bonding. So are better off as a more one-on-one than an entire family thing. A one-on-one also allows it to feel more organic. Someone is going to be way less receptive to any reasoning if they're being put on the spot during a family dinner than if you were to just approach them during casual free time. Results caused by peer pressure rarely work out in the long run, in order to discuss opposing views, you need to keep the person you're talking to open for discussion. Personally, I feel isolating out the family members who can't separate their political identity from their person is more than adequate for keeping family time as a bonding time instead of an infomercial/trying to pursuade people on differing opinions while getting the point across quite nicley. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago So your approach is just not talking about the problems? Very healthy. /s The "see no evil, speak no evil" crowd aren't much help to the downtrodden. /li permalink fedilink source parent
[–] echo@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago (7 children) That's not healthy. That's enabling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] nocturne@piefed.social 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children) After Election Day 2024 I completely cut my republican father out of my life. He never was maga, but he was celebrating trimp's win (ironically by listening to a Woodie Guthrie cd I got him). I did not speak to him for almost a year and a half, then in April I found out he was going to group therapy. I am unsure of the exact nature of the GT but one of his friend's that is in the GT said it is to redeem them. We still do not have the close relationship that we used to have, and I doubt we ever will again. The crazy thing is he used to be a long haired hippie fighting for freedoms and protecting protesting the Vietnam war. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago It sucks when that has to happen, but good on you. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago (1 child) protecting the Vietnam war Protesting? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] nocturne@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago Yup! Hah permalink fedilink source parent [–] Voixe2@lemmy.blahaj.zone -2 points 1 day ago (2 children) That’s not x that’s y 😭 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 18 hours ago It's not a writing trend — it's an experience. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago That's normal English phrasing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nocturne@piefed.social 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children) After Election Day 2024 I completely cut my republican father out of my life. He never was maga, but he was celebrating trimp's win (ironically by listening to a Woodie Guthrie cd I got him). I did not speak to him for almost a year and a half, then in April I found out he was going to group therapy. I am unsure of the exact nature of the GT but one of his friend's that is in the GT said it is to redeem them. We still do not have the close relationship that we used to have, and I doubt we ever will again. The crazy thing is he used to be a long haired hippie fighting for freedoms and protecting protesting the Vietnam war. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] echo@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago It sucks when that has to happen, but good on you. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago (1 child) protecting the Vietnam war Protesting? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] nocturne@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago Yup! Hah permalink fedilink source parent
[–] echo@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago It sucks when that has to happen, but good on you. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 1 day ago (1 child) protecting the Vietnam war Protesting? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] nocturne@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago Yup! Hah permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Voixe2@lemmy.blahaj.zone -2 points 1 day ago (2 children) That’s not x that’s y 😭 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 18 hours ago It's not a writing trend — it's an experience. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago That's normal English phrasing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 18 hours ago It's not a writing trend — it's an experience. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bold_omi@lemmy.today 1 point 23 hours ago That's normal English phrasing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world 1 point 15 hours ago I've barely spoken to most of my family for two years. It's really quiet. permalink fedilink source parent