931
Has anyone noted the pre-election uptick? (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] 141 points 1 month ago (67 children)

Vote Democrats if there is no progressive alternative. But always primary progressives in Democratic primaries.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 month ago (34 children)

    This is the way, at least until we get rid of First Past the Post and other Ordinal voting systems.

    Score, STAR, or Approval would all make primaries unnecessary, and also reward people for honestly voting their preferences. Which is sort of why there's so much pushback against them.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (33 children)

    But since the people benefitting from the current setup are the ones who'll have to agree to change it and create the new system, there is absolutely no hope of ever peacefully ending the current status quo.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 month ago (30 children)

    Except for the fact that pretty much every single progressive in Congress or on the ballot is in favor of some form of electoral reform.

    But like you said, obviously nothing at all can be done, you know, besides voting for them.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    I think you need to put more weight on their qualifier word “peacefully”.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Do you have enough guns to fight the US military? No? Well neither do I.

    Which is why there are steps that must be followed. And right now those are peaceful protest and voting. Making sure everyone votes.

    The time for violence is likely coming, but it has to be after the election. After Trump blatantly ignores the will of the people.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    The violence in the street is already happening. The violence in the courtrooms is already happening. The violence in universities is already happening. The violence in the legislative chambers is already happening. The violence at the homes of resistant politicians is already happening. Roll over, if you must.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    You're thinking on the right track, but honestly they already replaced all the top brass with stooges and forced most of the officer who had principles to resign. I would not count on the military intervening if trump declares himself emperor for life.

    We still need to vote, of course. But if he ignores the results, or if they fuck with the elections too hard to ignore, don't expect salvation to come from above...

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (20 children)

    Ah, defeatism. And basically telling other people to not even try.

    I'd expect nothing less from .ml

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

    i get called a tankie all the time and i vote in every election from the municipal up.

    the democrats are not a serious opposition party, many democrats in blue states are essentially just republicans who learned how to not openly say slurs in college (think people like seth moulton)

    they squat on power and are not credible opponents to fascism, only to thier left do they actually put up a fight.

    why would they? they have unlimited money and legions of people willing to debase themselves defending any incompetence out of pure team loyalty.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

    You also spend a lot of time suppressing this kind of organizing.

    i don't spend any time suppressing elections, what are you even talking about lmao

    a random anarchist shitting on blue team online for being genocidal warmongers is not 'suppressing electoral organizing'

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    a comment in an online forum is not suppressing elections.

    expressing dissent about how ineffective democrats are as a party is not suppressing elections.

    i am complaining about blue maga being smug jerks and blaming everyone but their own politicians because i would actually like them to succeed over the republicans.

    i would like to see them become capable of self-reflection and demand better from their dogshit politicians, but they prefer to act like a cult.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Lol, the people insisting that continuing to do the exact thing that got is here is the only viable way to change things accusing others of defeatism will never stop being hilarious.

    Now do the one where you pretend Democrats have passed a bill that helped the working class more than it helped Wall St any time in the last forty fucking years, that's always a riot!

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Did you vote for progressives in the primaries?

    I spent a decade working my ass off to get progressive candidates elected as a campaign staffer. So I know whereof I speak when I say the unelected power brokers who control the party will never allow progressive elected Democrats to put their hands on any levers of power that actually matter. They're happy to have them go on TV and talk a good game, that helps keep the peasants from revolting, but they will never be able to pass any legislation the Third Way Foundation doesn't approve of, because the leadership will always be from the pro Wall St faction.

    So yes, i voted progressive in the primaries, and the Congrescritter who represents me is one of the furthest left elected Dems in the country. None of which changes the fact that electing Democrats will not and can not ever change the fundamental status quo.

    Pro-fascism or anti-fascism. If you refuse to make a choice, well guess what, thanks

    On that we agree. I've just seen enough of what happens in the back rooms where the sausage gets made, so I understand that voting for either half of the capitalist Uniparty is pro-fascism.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Somehow not defeatism: We have to vote for the democrats, dont you dare think a better world is possible

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (6 children)

    Did you vote for progressives in the primaries? Actually I don't care, the primaries are over, you fuck with the dick you've got, not the one you wish you had.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    You do realize that you're the meme right?

    Right now, this comment is the fucking meme.

    You fucks always ignore everything the actual fascists do, so that you can get high off your own ass claiming that the democrats are the real fascists.

    Fucking get over yourself and admit you like the conservatives more.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    > me, holding up a picture of a crying wojak with some reductive strawman text underneath
    > wowww youre like literally the meme wowww

    Somehow you people keep fucking up, you struggle to argue against the actual leftist critique of your "lesser evil" argument.
    The democrats are fascists as are the republicans. There is no practical difference between the two. You keep making up some alternative position you'd like leftists to hold, because it is easier than actually engaging with the argument at hand. "Oh do you want a grenade or a nuke?" I am arguing they are both nukes, "oh you think the republicans aren't fascists" I am arguing they are both fascists.
    The reasoning for this argument has been pointed out many times. Each time it devolves into either strawmanning, like here; the other acting willfully obtuse; or petty name calling.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    i despise conservatives. i hold special hate in my heart for democrats though, because they are just such dogshit opposition and their cultists will smugly crow about every minority getting unpersoned due to their incompetence. they refuse to see how much they have in common with red maga and this entire thread and OP are the foremost example of it

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    Zero self awareness. It’s amazing to see.

    i'm glad you agree with my assessment of the thread

    How do you even function on a day to day

    are you asking for life tips from me? i charge for coaching

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    You missed the "vote progressive in the primaries" part

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Nope. I spent a decade working my ass off to do that and worked my way up to being a paid campaign staffer for progressive candidates.

    I suggest you do the same so that you can learn what I did: the people who control the levers of power in the party will allow progressives to be elected, it helps keep the left flank in line, but they will never allow progressives to have enough power to change the fundamental nature of the party as a machine that turns bribes into Wall St friendly legislation.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

    Lemmy users in socialism.ml actually define Putin as progressive (I wish I was joking)

    EDIT: look at them all brigading me below. PUTIN SUCKS and North Korea is an authoritarian shithole!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    But why be partisan? Why not vote independently, after an earnest scrutiny of the candidates and issues, for the welfare of the people as a whole? It sounds good and it would be very nice if it would work. It would also be nice if pi were exactly 3.000 instead of a bothersome 3.14159 plus.

    There are two reasons, one moral and one practical. The practical reason is this: You simply cannot be effective in politics unless you join in the process of compromise and conciliation whereby free men merge little groups into big groups until they accomplish a government. If you are not partisan you are on your own, everybody is out of step but Johnny, and the chances that you can have any effect on how this country is run are 140,000,000 to one against you.

    --Robert A. Heinlein, Take Back Your Government

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    VOTE AGAINST THE PARTY IN THE GENERAL

    No, no, and no. Shit like that is how we got Trump. Stupid protest votes are not what’s needed right now.

    Does it suck? Yes. Do you just have to hold your nose and do it? Yes. But voting against things or not voting is what put us in this situation.

    The primaries are the time to push things left.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Not just no but hellfuck no.

    If you're a safe vote for the party, there is no reason they should ever even consider what you want when deciding on policy.

    The primaries are the time to push things left.

    The General is the time to punish sliding right.

    Protest votes are exactly what's needed right now.

    Shit like that is how we got Trump

    This statement tells me that you still don't understand why Trump was a viable candidate (remember, wannabe fascist strongmen have run in the Republican primary since forever. They didn't used to get the time of day from GOP primary voters).

    Shit like voting Blue No Matter Who even after the Clintons sold the party body and soul to Wall St is how we got Trump. Ending Welfare as we know it is how we got Trump. Running on codifying Roe and abandoning the idea before the inauguration party hangovers have cleared is how we got Trump. Refusing to prosecute torture under Bush II and extending the Bush Tax Cuts is how we got Trump. Passing "insurance reform" that didn't create a public option and did give private health insurance corps 5 consecutive quarters of record profits is how we got Trump. Using Ukraine as a pawn to fight a proxy war with Russia is how we got Trump.

    I could go on, but if you refuse to see it with all that then there's no hope for you anyway.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    I think you underestimate the number of people who protest voted by refusing to vote at all, which is neither an actual protest vote nor the same type of problem. Not that I think it would have been a guaranteed tipping point, but it sure would have made things a bit closer. Compound that with one of the (designed) effects of the electoral college (devaluing voter turnout in high-population states), and you widen that gap much more.

    "America will have the most lethal military" and other signalings in favor of status quo imperialism sure did kill any interest for many left wingers to vote, and anecdotally I know many of my left-proclaiming peers took that as reason to forego the polls altogether.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I think you underestimate the number of people who protest voted by refusing to vote at all

    So what you're actually trying to say is that people not voting is how we got Trump? Because calling not votes protest votes is just beyond confusing.

    You're not incorrect - but honestly, blaming the voters rather than the candidate seems insane. Especially since 7 million more voters HAD come out in 2020, and the Democrats avoided even the appearance of a primary in 2024.

    but it sure would have made things a bit closer

    horseshoes and grenades

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Issue with that tactic is that it's actively being used to justify Chuck Schumer's "for every big city liberal we alienate, we will gain 3 to 4 hillbillies from the rural area" schtick, which is costing democrats elections and us (the world) the real progressive movement.

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  • [+] 3 points 1 month ago (14 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    I support voting jackass, just not for genocidal neoliberals and DSA entryists. I know this will be shocking to you, but we have leftist parties in my country.

    Maybe you can form one as well? Is that too much to ask of Americans?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    But you would support Russian and Chinese genocide of Ukrainians and Uyghurs, respectively.

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  • [+] 2 points 1 month ago (5 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    What an erudite rebuttal. You sure disproved what I said with the absolutely no information you provided.

    I assume the fact that you didn't actually address either point is due to the fact that you know what instead dnwas correct and you're salty your cable news talking heads haven't given you the right talking points to get around that?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Yeah, you clearly don't have any actual rebuttal. I'd guess that you know I'm right and it pisses you off, so you're lashing out. But I really don't care very much. If your next response doesn't actually address anything I've said, then you can fuck off to the block list and everyone who reads this later can know for absolutely certain that you agree I'm right, you just hate that fact.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    That's about what I expected from someone who frequents "TankieJerk". If your comm has a "no right wingers" rule immediately above a clarification that Liberals are ok, then you don't understand fuckign anything about politics well enough that anyone should take your opinion seriously.

    Gonna block you now, kiddo. I've given you more than enough space to ensure nobody will think you have a point. Especially since you're so incredibly bad at reading comprehension you can't tell a USian from a Russian on the Internet.

    But for the record:

    "Look at me! I'm so civilised and predigious! Why won't you notice me senpai?! It's just an honest debate bro! It's just a question bro!

    Is a hilarious response when you started the shit and provided no actual substance at all.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Lmao, do you actually think that "Uyghur genocide" means that China is carpet bombing Xinjiang 🤣

    "Genocide" in China's case means cultural genocide. It stands in for forced assimilation. China isn't bombing every single school and hospital in Xinjiang and massacring hundreds of thousands of Uyghur people dumbass. And I don't support the treatment of Uyghurs in China, nor do I support Ukraine's invasion.

    And this comment was really eye-opening. You American libs have made the word 'genocide' so fucking meaningless that you just throw it around for every single thing, including regular invasions. You didn't watch the video I sent you of an actual genocide, did you?

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