The very bad news is, Nvidia says turning DLSS 5 on will currently reduce performance by 50-60%. And that's across the board—no matter the game.

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[–] 34 points 2 months ago* (15 children)

This is how I understand it too. 6x frame generation means 6 times the amount it had before. If it had 10 frames before, then 6x means 60 frames in total, which are 50 of them fake frames. Note to anyone reading this: Frame Generation is also adding lag. So anyone saying Frame Generation is increasing performance just because the numbers go higher, did not understand what it is. In fact Frame Generation is decreasing performance.

Now imagine you use DLSS and RayTracing, and to feel good you add Frame Generation. What an abomination is this?

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (11 children)

    Man you're basically not even playing the game at that point.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    at best. that's just framegen. You forgot upscaling. it internally renders at 540p....

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    In that answer, I forgot indeed. And the DLSS 5 image styling on top after upscaling... First Ai: Image upscaling, on top second Ai: DLSS 5 styling, on top third Ai: Frame Generation. And that assumes that the original input image from the developers was created without Ai. I mean Unreal Engine has some builtin Ai features and so on.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    Nvidia aims at games becoming fully AI-generated end-to-end including pixels, audio, and reasoning. So yeah: It's meant to be AI all the way down.
    Obviously, not all games will be pure AI. You can still buy hand-forged hardware for your house. You will always be able to find hand-made games. But the current AAA slop will just be fully AI generated.
    People who love it now, will still love it then. People who don't, will just keep playing indie like we do now.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    i would love to see how they fit a million triangles at 32 bytes per vertex, + textures + game state into the context of one model....

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    They probably won't. Natural neural networks don't fit all that stuff into their working memory either. But some people can imagine the full thing in all detail while they create it in the physical world.
    I guess, the AI gets some abstract description (probably not human readable text; but who knows) of the objects in the scene and does with its artificial neural network what those people do with their natural neural network - at 60 FPS.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    my point is that neural "rendering" being geometry aware is just impossible

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    It wouldn't be the first "impossible" thing to eventually be implemented.
    Natural neural networks can do it. We have proof for that; geometry-correct realistic art made by humans exists after all. So it's very likely not impossible to do this with artificial neural networks.
    Whether it's possible to do in an end-user GPU I don't know. Probably eventually. May take a year, a decade, a century... who knows. The future is hard to predict.
    But I don't see why it would be impossible. We are just not there yet.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    I'm actually not worried for the entire industry. There will always be companies, big and small, who are not developing with Ai (or very limited). And games need to work well on non Nvidia hardware too, meaning games have to be something playable without DLSS at all. At least in near future I'm still hopeful. In far future, who knows.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    There definitely will be games which are just unplayable if you got no inference accelerator. The moment, AI generates the actual visuals, you either are able to do AI image gen at playable FPS - or you don't. Those games can't ship with an alternative renderer because the game needing no textures or shaders is the whole point of full AI rendering.
    But if you don't like AI, you will not miss out on anything. The first such games will probably be absolute dog shit anyway.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Frame generation is for when you can play at native 60 FPS but want more. More native frames don't give you less noticeable input lag. But more (fake) frames still feel smoother. That's the sweet spot for frame gen: playing at 120 FPS when your card can only do a little more than 60 FPS native (some native frames are sacrificed to the AI gods to get the fake frames to interleave with the real ones).
    The advertising is ridiculous though.

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