minorkeys comments on 'There is no universe in which Proton VPN compromises its no-logs policy' — Proton joins the backlash against Canada's surveillance bill

Yeah... I pay attention to UK politics mostly to avoid hyper focusing on depressing domestic politics, and it's devastating to see Labor shit the bed the way they have.

Like, you guys are supposed to be better than us (it's a low bar)! But they squandered their mandate in the most perverse and infuriating way. I'm sorry. Shit sucks.

Anyway, that's my half-assed perspective from listening to Pod Save the UK, the Bugle, and reading the occasional article.

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[–] Auth@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago (7 children)

the UK has it rough. They have a dogshit conservative government for a decade and then get pissed when the left cant clean it up in a single term. Also most of the voters are still falling for conservative outrage bait drumming up a ton of distraction issues like migrant crime and rape gangs.

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[–] DaGreenGobbo@feddit.uk 21 points 5 months ago (1 child)

Labour isn't the left. Keir Starmer lied about everything to become the leader of the Labour Party as the face of Morgan McSweeney, Steve Reed and Peter Mandelson's "Labour Together" right wing project because they knew the membership, which is generally centre left, would never vote for them if they were honest about their intentions. They hid 75% of their donations until after the contest was over, violating electoral law.

Lo and behold, they're doing disability cuts, trans moral panic, privacy violations, outsourcing to American tech barons and clamping down on protest rights. Starmer suspended several MPs early on for voting against the government's policy of keeping the two child cap on benefits.

However, you are partially right that the right wing press still doesn't approve of them and are manufacturing dissent, despite Labour's cruel anti-migrant and pro-capital policies.

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[–] Auth@lemmy.world 1 point 5 months ago

From what I've seen the good far outweighs the bad and it is what I would consider left wing. When you look at the reasons why he did the things you're attacking its not like its his ideal policy, he had his reasons and seems that if the circumstances were different he would be more free to pursue a further left wing stance. Government isnt always getting what you want, you must balance the budget and fight to spend your political captial most efficiently getting wins where they matter most. I dont think hes done a great job but its not half as bad as people claim.

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[–] toebert@piefed.social 8 points 5 months ago (3 children)

To be fair, the issue (or at least my point) here is not that they didn't magically fix everything. It's that they actively introduced things (like the online safety act) and are continuing to pursue things (like extending it to vpns) which didn't exist before and are hostile towards online privacy.

I do agree about the general mentality being outrage based which benefits the right.

It's actually quite interesting to look at the party manifestos in England Vs Scotland for the same parties. Reform UK has seen some success in the recent Scottish election and I believe part of it is that their "Scottish" manifesto reads closer to a regular conservative party (so only medium insane), whereas it's batshit insane in England. I don't think a lot of people compare those, despite it being the same party.

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[–] Auth@lemmy.world 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Yes I understand being pissed off at some horrible legislation but focusing on single events and painting an entire picture will destroy any politician. Focusing on his worst legislation ignores all the good stuff he has passed and makes people think the left is just as bad when objectively that is not the case.

Like even looking at the online safety act. Thats popular legislation with majority support. Think of all the things that wouldnt have happened under a conservative government, rail nationalization, strengthen labour laws, green energy expansion and reform, prison reform.

All his biggest controversy kind of pales in comparison to the good done. So to throw all that out just seems very stupid to me.

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[–] toebert@piefed.social 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

I see your point and also agree with you, but at the same time it seems like you're implying it's a binary choice. Either we support labour or we support the right. The way I see it, they're a centrist party now at best. I want to support a more leftist/libertarian party. I don't have to run to vote for reform just because labour didn't do as well as I hoped, but I also don't need to vote for labour if they do things I hate (which the war on privacy is).

And of course the online safety act passed with a majority. They're using the easiest manipulation tactic to describe all of these type of bills that exists. "It's for the children". It takes a lot to oppose it while making sure you don't give ammunition to be smeared with "oh they hate kids/don't care about children's wellbeing" while defending it is as simple as repeating it's to protect kids. Doesn't even matter what the bill does as long as it can loosely be related it's a guaranteed "moral high ground".

Lastly, I don't think it's good to excuse bad policies by saying they also did other good things.

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[–] Auth@lemmy.world 1 point 5 months ago

you’re implying it’s a binary choice. Either we support labour or we support the right. The way I see it, they’re a centrist party now at best. I want to support a more leftist/libertarian party.

I understand that perspective and im not trying to say its binary because its fine to vote that way. I just think even if you want to support a more leftwing party people should refrain from carrying the exaggerated right wing narratives against labour because they still need a strong center left party to pickup the votes for people who arent as far left.

Lastly, I don’t think it’s good to excuse bad policies by saying they also did other good things.

I am saying that the good things are bigger than the bad so you should focus on the good rather than the bad. They already have every right winger focusing on the bad, they dont need it from the left as well. Theres a difference between talking about the bad policies in a critical way and then shitting on them every single time their mentioned and running down their list of worst policies. Rail nationalization is huge, its a huge win for the left and it should be talked about at every opportunity so people are encouraged to vote left.

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[–] Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 2 points 5 months ago

Starmer has betrayed every principle Labour had and is a traitor to every existing socialist. This has - for once, and that makes it even sadder - nothing to do with the Tories.

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[–] tabarnaski@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 months ago* (5 children)

I don't understand your comment, I thought liberals had a majority government...?

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[–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

They did, this guy is just being edgy and predictable.

Blame all problems on conservatives, even when they're not in power. Libdippers can do no wrong. /s

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[–] tootoughtoremember@lemmy.world 17 points 5 months ago

I mean, the Libs are doing everything I'd expect from Stephen Harper's Bank of Canada guy and the Tory's Bank of England guy.

Not being able to tell if the Libs or Cons are in charge just feels like more evidence of how far we've ratcheted to the right.

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[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Mark Carney is 3 Conservatives in a trench coat.

Now, he is an actual Conservative, which is a hell of a lot better than a reactionary extremist that are calling themselves Conservative these days, but there's a reason Conservative MPs have crossed the floor to join his party.

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[–] Canuck@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 months ago (1 child)

That's just as absurd as saying Pierre Pollievre is 3 Liberals in a trench coat

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[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago*

Not in the slightest, no. PP doesn't have any liberal policies (he doesn't have any policies), Mark Carney is all conservatives policies from 20 years ago before they leaders decided to go off the deep end. Mark Carney worked for the Harper government.

Again, why do you think so many Conservative MPs have crossed the floor to join the New Conservative party?

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[–] GoMati@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago (3 children)

I'm sure liberals would pass on the opportunity to have more power and control and would totally thrash the whole thing.

/s, but should be obvious

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[–] walden@wetshav.ing 5 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

Liberals have a much better track record with this sort of thing.

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[–] carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 5 months ago (1 child)

are you aware of which party has a majority in canada’s parliament right now

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[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 4 points 5 months ago

The party that all the Conservative MPs are joining, because it aligns with their conservative policies more than the extremists party they are currently in.

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