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[–] 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (12 children)

Proton can do what it likes when it comes to messages being sent between different proton accounts. Use of meta data rich protocols like standard email, instead of, e.g., the signal protocol, is absolutely something they can be blamed for.

As is choosing operate from a jurisdiction that can comple them to collect IP addresses.

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  • [–] 44 points 8 months ago* (6 children)

    Use of meta data rich protocols like standard email, instead of, e.g., the signal protocol

    Brother...its an email product though...if you can use Signal, use Signal. But it's a different product entirely.

    When my bank sends me verification info and banking statements over Signal I'll be elated. Until then, we unfortunately have to continue dealing with email.

    As is choosing operate from a jurisdiction that can comple them to collect IP addresses.

    There is no such requirement. They collect them necessarily in order to function.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Brother...its an email product though...if you can use Signal, use Signal.

    The point is there is no requirement for emails sent between different proton accounts to be as insecure as they are. 

    This is something where there are known open source solutions that are just flat out better than what proton is using, and proton just can't be bothered. You can't fix the whole Internet, but proton just doesn't care enough to fix itself. 

    There is no such requirement. They collect them necessarily in order to function.

    By default proton doesn't log IP addresses. They're just not needed. But when ordered to they do.

    https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-address-of-french-activist-after-order-by-swiss-authorities/

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    What insecurities are you referring to?

    But when ordered to they do.

    And your suggestion is...refusing to comply with the law?

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I explained both these things in the first post you responded to. 

    1. Using email protocols between proton accounts means they need more meta data which is then given up on a search warrant. 
    2. If they cared about privacy they wouldn't be based out of Switzerland. They'd pick somewhere with more privacy rights.
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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    And I explained to you that Proton is an email service, not a chat app.

    There is nowhere that has better privacy regulations than Switzerland.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    I think that when communication is between two users on the same platform, it at least could be more like a chat app. Proton distinguishes the uniqueness of this in its own documentation, so it was actually surprising to me when I heard the actual behavior isn't great. This isn't some marketing description either. It's pretty deep in their website.

    Ironically, chat apps running over "email" servers actually look surprisingly private these days.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    They are a Mail provider. You can't blame a mail provider for providing a mail service.

    You are basically asking for them to make it seem like you send mail, but in reality you send the message via some other protocol when it's send to Proton users. At that point you might as well not send mail at all.

    As for their jurisdiction: The data protection laws changed after they were founded. They are also lobbying against them and have in fact threatened to stop investing in or even leave Switzerland.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    Yes, I think that a transparent upgrade that improves privacy is an obviously good thing.  

    And seriously, they should have left. The law allows the Swiss government to force proton to alter the code run on their servers to satisfy requests from foreign governments. That is ridiculous.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    The annoying part is them marketing themselves as like operating from Swiss “privacy haven” when swiss privacy laws aren’t that good and the parliament is actively destroying them as we speak.

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