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[–] 83 points 9 months ago (60 children)

Nobody hacked anything

People found account credentials and tried using them. Nothing nhogh tech here

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  • [–] 43 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Many hackers agree that the best way to hack someone is through social engineering to just have them tell you your password.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago

    My favorite is when this security researcher showed on camera how she did it. She took out her laptop and pulled up a soundboard. She pretended to be mom with a crying baby, and begged the customer support to change her account email and reset her password. When they did try to ask for some verification, she played the baby crying sound effects louder. Feeling bad for her, they did what she asked and she "hacked" into the account.

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (38 children)

    Its technically hacking due to it not being your account. Unauthorized access.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    that's still hacking. hacking is gaining unauthorized access to a system through:

    • social engineering
    • cypher breaking
    • brute force

    of the three the first is BY FAR the most common and efficient. it's also the least sexy so they don't make movies about it and the public perception is that it's something else

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    It was there, doesn't mean it was for you. If you found a car with the keys in it, would you steal it or realize you shouldn't do that?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah but if I did, no one would say I hotwired the car.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Its still grand theft, hotwired or keys. That's the whole point 😅

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    It's two different things being argued about: the legal term "hacking" vs the every day language term, which I believe implies something more specific than "unauthorized access", something where technical or social skills were used to gain that access.

    That's the parallel I was trying to draw by mentioning the word "hotwiring" instead of "stealing". It would be like if the legal term for stealing a car was "hotwiring".

    That said, I did see that the OP of this tangent is actually trying to argue the "this isn't illegal" angle rather than the difference between legal terms and broader language terms.

    I agree this falls under the legal definition of hacking, but I also agree with those basically saying that this falls outside of the way they think the term should be used. It waters down its meaning.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    It was there, doesn't mean it was for you.

    Look, I'm not arguing about whether this is illegal or not. I'm arguing about the literal definition of the term "hacking".

    It's just like walking into a strangers house without permission where the door is wide open is technically illegal, but it can't qualify as "breaking and entering".

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    Unauthorized access is hacking.

    Doesn't matter if a person has a computer with no password at all. If you are on their computer and you are not authorized to use their computer that is a crime.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (10 children)

    If i give someone my bank details and passwords and they empty my account, can I claim I've been hacked?

    No.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    You violated the TOS by sharing the details

    A TOS violation is not the same as breaking the law. If that were the case then every single person on the face on the planet would be a criminal.

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  • [+] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    The account holder violated the contract with the serviceprovider. The "hacker" has no agreement with anyone so they violated nothing. They found a key on the ground and used it in a lock.

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  • [+] 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • Yeah. It comes down to Freedom to roam in Northern Europe and squatters rights in the extreme physical parallel. Entering is fine as long as there is no breaking.

    In the digital relm i would argue that brute forcing a password is like jimmying a lock, but finding a password is like finding a key.

    But I think your point is the strongest. It doesn't matter what either of us think. It totally depends on the justice system that has jurisdiction and those rules could be anything.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    What part of "unauthorized access" is so difficult for people to understand?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    How is authorization determined?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    Probably by giving out your account details.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    So, Epstein has given out his account details by putting them in an email.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    Were those details only used by the people he directly sent them to?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Can dead men either provide or deny authorisation?

    Can dead men get hacked?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    When I die, my assets should go to the people I named as my beneficiaries. If someone else comes along to try and take ownership of my assets, they should definitely be denied. Also, just because I'm dead doesn't mean anyone should have access to my devices, especially if password locked. So I would answer both questions with yes.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    So your claim is that if I sit down at a computer that isn't mine and has no security measures in place, and then open a file, that I have legally "hacked" the computer?

    The minimal definition you can fall back to is "unauthorized access". But now you have to establish and argue that an unsecured computer/system is off limits to everyone except the owner. Which then opens up a big can of worms with network connected devices, and demonstrates that such basic and literal verbatim interpretation doesn't work in reality.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    The legal term is: unauthorized access to a computer system.

    No, the legal definition is this:

    In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network.

    Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking

    So this wasn't illicit, because the FBI publicly published the data. So the argument has to be made with "unconventional". This is what I disagree on.

    Think about it in any other way? So I'm just walking down the street... I see a house.. I go open a door.. I open the fridge. Make myself a sandwich. Then go to a bedroom that's not mine. Put on some underwear that isn't mine and leave some stains on the sheets...

    That's illegal. There's a law for that. There are also laws that protect digital assets in a similar way, and they fall under Cybercrime.

    Why don't you just go rape somebody? And clearly you have authorization to access that vagina or that butthole or mouth or however your fetish desires???

    Calm down there, Epstein.

    Just tell me you've been on Epstein's Island.... Jfc? Wtf is wrong with you, CeeBee_Eh?

    You suck at rage baiting. I'm advocating for exposing more of the emails and not letting people refer to it as "hacking", and you're so enraged by someone disagreeing with you that you literally call that person "Epstein". I know mental health care isn't much of a thing in the US, but please find some help. For all our sakes.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Or having the FBI leak your password and you using it without authorization. Legally it 100% falls under hacking in the USA.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/hacking

    First sentence. You don't have to have stolen the password, if you login to another account, and someone proves you did, you can be charged if they want to pursue it.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    In a legal context, hacking is a term for utilizing an unconventional or illicit means to gain unauthorized access to a digital device, computer system, or network.

    We can rule out "illicit" because the FBI published the data publicly. Now the heavy lifting has to be done by "unconventional", which I don't think qualifies here. A government agency published the credentials, which means no one had to do social engineering, sneak into an office, reverse engineer anything, or even guess a person's birthday.

    Now if this somehow went to court, a judge might rule that this qualifies as hacking, but my opinion is that it doesn't.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)
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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    Hacking is very wide and can include things like this. It does not have to be as technical, hard or clever as most gatekeep it to be.

    Source: 20 years of experience in the space

    ex. password stuffing brute force is hacking

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Plugging somebody's nipples on a car battery can be hacking.

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  • [+] 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (12 children)
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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    Hacking is gaining unauthorised access to a system.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (6 children)

    Same as losing your house keys and having someone use them to enter your house is unauthorized entry and violation of a set of laws, but it is NOT breaking into a house.

    It IS breaking into a house. The law you are violating in this scenario is called breaking and entering.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    The United States, Canada, France, Germany, Austria, New Zealand, Spain, South Africa, and probably many more.

    Other countries might call it something else, like the UK calls it burglary, but it pretty much always falls under the same law as breaking into a house using more forceful means on entry.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    First, I can, but since you don't want me to, I won't. Second, it's not a strawman, it's your own analogy and it doesn't work because it's based on a false assumption. Using a found key to enter a house unauthorized is breaking in the same way that using a found password to enter an account unauthorized is hacking. The analogy works against your case, not for it.

    Now stop distracting from the administration in the divided states of middle northern america protecting child rapists including their head of state.

    This is the wildest accusation. I'm not the one deconstructing narratives around the emails to put my own spin on them. I'm the one using established terminology to properly understand the context of the story. You on the other hand, are claiming that Epstein's emails weren't hacked, which makes it conveniently easy to dismiss the story as spreading misinformation. I don't believe this is your intention, but you should be honest, if anyone is distracting from anything here, it's you. If that's not what you are doing, then it's not what I am doing either.

    It sounds like you know you are wrong and just want to score a cheap point against me. I didn't say anything rude or mean to you and have given you absolutely no reason to accuse me of that. Just relax. We're all friends here.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Repeating the same claim again and again doesn't count as an argument. I do software engineering for a living. I have been paid for discovering security vulnerabilities. I know more about this than you do. I've been trying to explain it to you, but you won't listen and choose to be rude instead.

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