β² 687 βΌ Immersion ruined because of black people? π (discuss.online) submitted 9 months ago by bytesonbike@discuss.online to c/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works 161 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 115 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (18 children) Oh fun history time! Especially a couple thousand years ago, the Sahara was far smaller, and far lest hostile to life. The last trees only died in the Sahara about 20 or 30 years ago. Caravans crossed regularly. On top of the very easy route from Sudan to Egypt, and the Greeks were obsessed with Egypt. Even the Bible talks about Nubians in Ancient Egypt, so if even that as a "source" knows about the well-documented reality that Sub-Saharan populations were in contact and well-known individuals present in North Africa and the Levant as far back as 5,000 years ago. I mean, did you not even think to search for this before spouting off? Literally the first search result for "did black people greece": Edit: meant to paste this link - my bad - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Greeks permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments replies: [β] callouscomic@lemmy.zip 46 points 9 months ago (5 children) gasp people migrate and stuff? bewildered permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] TheBat@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 19 points 9 months ago* (1 child) They did but people kept sneaking in on giant wooden horses permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago "See! I told you that we could get them to pay for the wall!" "That's very good sir, but still, what the fuck are we supposed to do with all these giant wooden horses? And isn't it suspicious that they drop off a new one every day?" "Fake news! We have the most, the biggest and the best giant wooden horses! We'll give them to our giants wooden cowboys to ride! Just yesterday a giant wooden cowboy, the biggest wooden cowboy you have ever seen, came up to me with tears in his eyes, tears just streaming down his wooden face. And he said thank you!. Thank you for the giant wooden horses! Until you we had nothing to ride and had to chase the giant wooden cows around on foot." permalink fedilink source parent [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago (1 child) They did, actually. To keep the Ottomans out. Didn't work (spoiler). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago They also did that with the Persians, though instead of bricks they used Spartans. permalink fedilink source parent [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (1 child) I pasted the wrong link, which is my mistake - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks And I'm not confusing you with OP, I'm explaining that North Africa was not bordered on the south by an impenetrable desert and that thinking only North African peoples were in Ancient Greece really mid-understands geography and proximity to Africa and the commonality of trade along the Nile. Going east, Ancient Buddhists started depicting Shakyamuni Budda as a human figure and not an empty space under a tree directly as the result of Greek philosophical exchange. Buddhist "missionaries" are accounted for in Athens and the Levant more than 2000 years ago. Ancient Greece was a pretty cosmopolitan place for the ancient world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [β] Omgboom@lemmy.zip 7 points 9 months ago (1 child) And to add on to your point about the Sahara being less hostile, it used to be filled with life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_humid_period This period ended right around when recorded history begins. Because the Sahara was not hostile it created a corridor for plants, and animals, and people to make an easy crossing into the levant and then further into Asia and Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara_pump_theory permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Yeah, it's wild how there's just a 5cm thick layer of salt down under the sand, and mining salt slabs from the ancient sea is how most nomadic groups flavor their food. Plus all the rock art and ancient cities just out in the middle of nowhere today. I once bought a dinosaur tooth from a guy that 1) agreed with claims I had heard that the mountains in the Sahara still harbor things like peach trees, and 2) that there are badlands style areas where herders just find dinosaur bones lying around. permalink fedilink source parent [β] moopet@sh.itjust.works 11 points 9 months ago (1 child) So we're confident that black people did in fact greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago It's well-documented that black Greeks did. permalink fedilink source parent [β] LwL@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (3 children) ...the first search result being about a community that in its largest part started existing in 1923 is relevant to ancient history? I mean I don't know enough about ancient demographics to comment on whether there would feasibly be more than an extremely tiny minority of sub-saharan africans in ancient greece, but claiming someone didn't search and then providing an irrelevant search result has a certain irony to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (2 children) That's my bad, I had 2 links open in 2 tabs and copied the wrong one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] LwL@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Thanks, now I know a little more about ancient greek demographics! Well it still seems to be mainly about greeks in africa, but some exchange both ways seems inevitable when it's that prominent. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago It goes both ways. Ultimately, it's that the Greeks (and Romans) were obsessed with Egypt, and Egypt was in direct and lasting contact with the Nubians (modern Sudan) and parts of modern Ethiopia because they were farther up the Nile. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Einskjaldi@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago It's on a long term cycle 50kyears ish where it goes from green to dry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_cell permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [β] vpol@feddit.uk 41 points 9 months ago (21 children) There were plenty of sub-Saharan African people in Ancient Greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Skua@kbin.earth 29 points 9 months ago (3 children) I don't know about how many would have lived in Greece, but they're definitely in the tale of the Trojan War. There's a whole poem, Aethiopis, starring them. The original text is pretty much entirely lost, but we do have a Roman-era summary of it to give us the broad strokes. Aethiopians show up in other stuff too; Perseus fights a sea monster there, for example permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Skua@kbin.earth 5 points 9 months ago (1 child) Ahh, fair enough. I hope so too, I'd be interested to read that. I can believe there would be at least some, because there was definitely steady contact between those two parts of the world at that time, but I don't know specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 7 points 9 months ago (10 children) Define "plenty". The ancient Greeks didn't care about skin tone in the modern sense, so there isn't some racial census data like we have now. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ They make trivial to find references to black people and depict them in the manner they depict themselves in art. Because their division was not "Greek" and "black" but "Greek" and "not Greek", they simply didn't document it. Aristotle describes the ideal skin tone as halfway between an Ethiopian and a woman. Black people were quite literally unremarkable to them, so it's pretty easy to argue that an ancient Greek wouldn't find it odd to travel with a black person. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 months ago (8 children) Alright, demonstrate that the demographics are as you assert they are. I've shown you that they're depicted in their arts and culture, both as they depicted outsiders and as they depicted themselves, as well as that they had unremarkable interactions with Ethiopia and beyond. The link also details the history of using the racial composition of ancient Greece for all manner of racial weirdness that wasn't representative of the Greeks themselves, up to and including Internet race weirdos who get bent out of shape about a black person being depicted in a movie set in the Mediterranean. At this point you've been given plenty of evidence that there sufficient numbers of dark skinned people that it wasn't remarkable. If you disagree that it would somehow have been remarkable, or that this isn't a perfectly workable definition of "plenty", then show some reason why beyond "well everyone knows". Hell, demonstrate that there were plenty of white people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (6 children) Are you asking me why I have an opinion on something? Because I do. You don't need special reasons to make comments on a forum. You aren't listening. They depicted black people in the fashion that they depicted Greek people. They didn't find them a weird novelty. The nature of ancient Greek prejudice wouldn't have them depict people as Greek that they didn't consider Greek. That intrinsically says something about the cultural integration, because that's what the Greeks got weird over. If it was uncommon for them to be there they would have mentioned it because they mentioned all manner of uncommon things. If they were a part of the society, and common enough that it wasn't worth mentioning "...and then the one black guy in Athens showed up...", then it seems clear to me that that's "plenty". Nothing is being spun. I and others have given you evidence. You haven't and are just making vacuous claims. Why do you have the opinion you do about the skin tone content of ancient Greece? Is it the enlightenment era paintings of Greek philosophers as white as could be? That the paint fell off the statues so now they're just white marble? That all the black people in the pottery are "obviously" artistic choices, but the white people just .... Are? I'm sure you have a reason for thinking what you do, so what is it? Neither a conversation nor a debate works by one person demanding evidence, denying it, and then refusing to elaborate In their beliefs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children) In a debate or conversation, both parties state beliefs and, if it is a debate, which this appears to be, both parties state sources and/or studies conducted by themselves or others. It will be hard to prove anything about skin colour of an ancient civilization, especially when the civilization just did not give a fuck about skin colour. I think they had mixed skin tones (as in a bit of both) if there were white people in Greece. People can and always have been able to move to a different country, and thus, the country will have a bit of a mix. Ricecake has given plenty of sources. You should also drop a few sources if you want any chance of recovering from this absolute ratio. Please grow up, educate yourself, all civilizations have had multiple skin colours, most just don't give a fuck, and learn how to have a debate and find sources. Edit: When starting a debate, you should also have sources to back yourself up, otherwise it's an accusation, not an argument or debate. Please come back when you have sources and learn how to debate. I hope everyone involved has a day as good as they are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [β] TachyonTele@piefed.social 6 points 9 months ago (4 children) Yes, we have plenty of sources for colored cyclops during ancient greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) They were living beside the main continent where black people come from? People migrate, and honestly, most civilizations portrayed as mostly white are mostly people of colour. It does not matter if there was a person of colour in a place that did not care about skin tones, and probably was a large portion people of colour; they were on the same land mass, and frankly did not care. You are making a bad reputation for yourself by demanding sources, then dismissing them when they're given, without giving any yourself. Please learn how to have a debate, online or not. Regardless of whether Greece was mostly people of colour or not doesn't really matter, and if it ruins a movie for someone, unless it's a large part of the lore, they're racist, usually even if it is part of the lore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [β] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 24 points 9 months ago (26 children) North Africans had trade routes going all the way into modern day Tanzania, and a big chunk of modern day Sudan used to be part of Ancient Egypt. The Iliad itself mentions people from Sudan. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 29 points 9 months ago (4 children) Like Aethiopians that are literally in the Illiad? Maybe Homer was woke too. /s There were some black people in the Mediterranean in ancient times. Egypt even had dynasties led by black people. Europeans didn't find about black people suddenly in the 14th century. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] TachyonTele@piefed.social 4 points 9 months ago (1 child) They portray a mythical creature. Take your meds. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago I honestly don't know why modern society gives a fuck about what colour someone's skin is. It does not matter, unless, say, you need a police report to catch a criminal, or an Amber alert, or a missing person, as usual examples. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago* (19 children) Like they literally exist in Greece today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_Greeks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Greeks Ignorance isnβt a sin, but youβre not even trying. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 19 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (17 children) Did you read the articles? Guess not. These small communities are direct descendants of the ones from ancient Greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (15 children) Ah, my bad. So itβs possible for Greeks to have travelled All the way to Ethiopia in ancient times and have populations that survived to this day, but not the other way around? Interesting way of thinking. Here you go then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avato permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 15 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (13 children) Ever heard of the term βgenetic admixtureβ and population dispersion / cultural assimilation? Letβs disregard Herodotusβ description of Colchians for now since itβs disputed. Here is an example of an ethically African population living in present-day Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Abkhazians Not to mention all the ethnic groups displaced during the population exchange during the Greco-Turkish war in the 1920s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 0 points 9 months ago (12 children) This conversation is so weird. We're specifically talking about Ancient Greece and again and again you share stuff that isn't about Ancient Greece? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [β] Snowclone@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (3 children) they weren't white either. and black Africans were well known to all of Africa and the Mediterranean FAR further back than written history. Greeks aren't even white, as far as you want to use "white" as some kind of identification, it's useless other than as a racist concept to harm other people, but the most generous inclusions are pretty fucking difficult to include Greeks in. dark skin, woolly hair, blunt noses, a language distinctly outside European language roots. you got nothing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Snowclone@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Sorry, man, I thought this was about that film and the actors in it, and their ethnicity. my bad. didn't realize you were having a no context argument unrelated to this entire fucking thread. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [β] NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (3 children) βHow dare this work of fiction not be my interpretation of historically accurate?!β permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) And my complaint is that that is a stupid fucking childβs complaint. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 115 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (18 children) Oh fun history time! Especially a couple thousand years ago, the Sahara was far smaller, and far lest hostile to life. The last trees only died in the Sahara about 20 or 30 years ago. Caravans crossed regularly. On top of the very easy route from Sudan to Egypt, and the Greeks were obsessed with Egypt. Even the Bible talks about Nubians in Ancient Egypt, so if even that as a "source" knows about the well-documented reality that Sub-Saharan populations were in contact and well-known individuals present in North Africa and the Levant as far back as 5,000 years ago. I mean, did you not even think to search for this before spouting off? Literally the first search result for "did black people greece": Edit: meant to paste this link - my bad - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Greeks permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments replies: [β] callouscomic@lemmy.zip 46 points 9 months ago (5 children) gasp people migrate and stuff? bewildered permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] TheBat@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 19 points 9 months ago* (1 child) They did but people kept sneaking in on giant wooden horses permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago "See! I told you that we could get them to pay for the wall!" "That's very good sir, but still, what the fuck are we supposed to do with all these giant wooden horses? And isn't it suspicious that they drop off a new one every day?" "Fake news! We have the most, the biggest and the best giant wooden horses! We'll give them to our giants wooden cowboys to ride! Just yesterday a giant wooden cowboy, the biggest wooden cowboy you have ever seen, came up to me with tears in his eyes, tears just streaming down his wooden face. And he said thank you!. Thank you for the giant wooden horses! Until you we had nothing to ride and had to chase the giant wooden cows around on foot." permalink fedilink source parent [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago (1 child) They did, actually. To keep the Ottomans out. Didn't work (spoiler). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago They also did that with the Persians, though instead of bricks they used Spartans. permalink fedilink source parent [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (1 child) I pasted the wrong link, which is my mistake - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks And I'm not confusing you with OP, I'm explaining that North Africa was not bordered on the south by an impenetrable desert and that thinking only North African peoples were in Ancient Greece really mid-understands geography and proximity to Africa and the commonality of trade along the Nile. Going east, Ancient Buddhists started depicting Shakyamuni Budda as a human figure and not an empty space under a tree directly as the result of Greek philosophical exchange. Buddhist "missionaries" are accounted for in Athens and the Levant more than 2000 years ago. Ancient Greece was a pretty cosmopolitan place for the ancient world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [β] Omgboom@lemmy.zip 7 points 9 months ago (1 child) And to add on to your point about the Sahara being less hostile, it used to be filled with life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_humid_period This period ended right around when recorded history begins. Because the Sahara was not hostile it created a corridor for plants, and animals, and people to make an easy crossing into the levant and then further into Asia and Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara_pump_theory permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Yeah, it's wild how there's just a 5cm thick layer of salt down under the sand, and mining salt slabs from the ancient sea is how most nomadic groups flavor their food. Plus all the rock art and ancient cities just out in the middle of nowhere today. I once bought a dinosaur tooth from a guy that 1) agreed with claims I had heard that the mountains in the Sahara still harbor things like peach trees, and 2) that there are badlands style areas where herders just find dinosaur bones lying around. permalink fedilink source parent [β] moopet@sh.itjust.works 11 points 9 months ago (1 child) So we're confident that black people did in fact greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago It's well-documented that black Greeks did. permalink fedilink source parent [β] LwL@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (3 children) ...the first search result being about a community that in its largest part started existing in 1923 is relevant to ancient history? I mean I don't know enough about ancient demographics to comment on whether there would feasibly be more than an extremely tiny minority of sub-saharan africans in ancient greece, but claiming someone didn't search and then providing an irrelevant search result has a certain irony to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (2 children) That's my bad, I had 2 links open in 2 tabs and copied the wrong one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] LwL@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Thanks, now I know a little more about ancient greek demographics! Well it still seems to be mainly about greeks in africa, but some exchange both ways seems inevitable when it's that prominent. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago It goes both ways. Ultimately, it's that the Greeks (and Romans) were obsessed with Egypt, and Egypt was in direct and lasting contact with the Nubians (modern Sudan) and parts of modern Ethiopia because they were farther up the Nile. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Einskjaldi@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago It's on a long term cycle 50kyears ish where it goes from green to dry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_cell permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[β] callouscomic@lemmy.zip 46 points 9 months ago (5 children) gasp people migrate and stuff? bewildered permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] TheBat@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 19 points 9 months ago* (1 child) They did but people kept sneaking in on giant wooden horses permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago "See! I told you that we could get them to pay for the wall!" "That's very good sir, but still, what the fuck are we supposed to do with all these giant wooden horses? And isn't it suspicious that they drop off a new one every day?" "Fake news! We have the most, the biggest and the best giant wooden horses! We'll give them to our giants wooden cowboys to ride! Just yesterday a giant wooden cowboy, the biggest wooden cowboy you have ever seen, came up to me with tears in his eyes, tears just streaming down his wooden face. And he said thank you!. Thank you for the giant wooden horses! Until you we had nothing to ride and had to chase the giant wooden cows around on foot." permalink fedilink source parent [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago (1 child) They did, actually. To keep the Ottomans out. Didn't work (spoiler). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago They also did that with the Persians, though instead of bricks they used Spartans. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] TheBat@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 19 points 9 months ago* (1 child) They did but people kept sneaking in on giant wooden horses permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago "See! I told you that we could get them to pay for the wall!" "That's very good sir, but still, what the fuck are we supposed to do with all these giant wooden horses? And isn't it suspicious that they drop off a new one every day?" "Fake news! We have the most, the biggest and the best giant wooden horses! We'll give them to our giants wooden cowboys to ride! Just yesterday a giant wooden cowboy, the biggest wooden cowboy you have ever seen, came up to me with tears in his eyes, tears just streaming down his wooden face. And he said thank you!. Thank you for the giant wooden horses! Until you we had nothing to ride and had to chase the giant wooden cows around on foot." permalink fedilink source parent [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago (1 child) They did, actually. To keep the Ottomans out. Didn't work (spoiler). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago They also did that with the Persians, though instead of bricks they used Spartans. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 19 points 9 months ago* (1 child) They did but people kept sneaking in on giant wooden horses permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago "See! I told you that we could get them to pay for the wall!" "That's very good sir, but still, what the fuck are we supposed to do with all these giant wooden horses? And isn't it suspicious that they drop off a new one every day?" "Fake news! We have the most, the biggest and the best giant wooden horses! We'll give them to our giants wooden cowboys to ride! Just yesterday a giant wooden cowboy, the biggest wooden cowboy you have ever seen, came up to me with tears in his eyes, tears just streaming down his wooden face. And he said thank you!. Thank you for the giant wooden horses! Until you we had nothing to ride and had to chase the giant wooden cows around on foot." permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago "See! I told you that we could get them to pay for the wall!" "That's very good sir, but still, what the fuck are we supposed to do with all these giant wooden horses? And isn't it suspicious that they drop off a new one every day?" "Fake news! We have the most, the biggest and the best giant wooden horses! We'll give them to our giants wooden cowboys to ride! Just yesterday a giant wooden cowboy, the biggest wooden cowboy you have ever seen, came up to me with tears in his eyes, tears just streaming down his wooden face. And he said thank you!. Thank you for the giant wooden horses! Until you we had nothing to ride and had to chase the giant wooden cows around on foot." permalink fedilink source parent
[β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago (1 child) They did, actually. To keep the Ottomans out. Didn't work (spoiler). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago They also did that with the Persians, though instead of bricks they used Spartans. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago They also did that with the Persians, though instead of bricks they used Spartans. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (1 child) I pasted the wrong link, which is my mistake - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks And I'm not confusing you with OP, I'm explaining that North Africa was not bordered on the south by an impenetrable desert and that thinking only North African peoples were in Ancient Greece really mid-understands geography and proximity to Africa and the commonality of trade along the Nile. Going east, Ancient Buddhists started depicting Shakyamuni Budda as a human figure and not an empty space under a tree directly as the result of Greek philosophical exchange. Buddhist "missionaries" are accounted for in Athens and the Levant more than 2000 years ago. Ancient Greece was a pretty cosmopolitan place for the ancient world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (1 child) I pasted the wrong link, which is my mistake - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks And I'm not confusing you with OP, I'm explaining that North Africa was not bordered on the south by an impenetrable desert and that thinking only North African peoples were in Ancient Greece really mid-understands geography and proximity to Africa and the commonality of trade along the Nile. Going east, Ancient Buddhists started depicting Shakyamuni Budda as a human figure and not an empty space under a tree directly as the result of Greek philosophical exchange. Buddhist "missionaries" are accounted for in Athens and the Levant more than 2000 years ago. Ancient Greece was a pretty cosmopolitan place for the ancient world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Omgboom@lemmy.zip 7 points 9 months ago (1 child) And to add on to your point about the Sahara being less hostile, it used to be filled with life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_humid_period This period ended right around when recorded history begins. Because the Sahara was not hostile it created a corridor for plants, and animals, and people to make an easy crossing into the levant and then further into Asia and Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara_pump_theory permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Yeah, it's wild how there's just a 5cm thick layer of salt down under the sand, and mining salt slabs from the ancient sea is how most nomadic groups flavor their food. Plus all the rock art and ancient cities just out in the middle of nowhere today. I once bought a dinosaur tooth from a guy that 1) agreed with claims I had heard that the mountains in the Sahara still harbor things like peach trees, and 2) that there are badlands style areas where herders just find dinosaur bones lying around. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Yeah, it's wild how there's just a 5cm thick layer of salt down under the sand, and mining salt slabs from the ancient sea is how most nomadic groups flavor their food. Plus all the rock art and ancient cities just out in the middle of nowhere today. I once bought a dinosaur tooth from a guy that 1) agreed with claims I had heard that the mountains in the Sahara still harbor things like peach trees, and 2) that there are badlands style areas where herders just find dinosaur bones lying around. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] moopet@sh.itjust.works 11 points 9 months ago (1 child) So we're confident that black people did in fact greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago It's well-documented that black Greeks did. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago It's well-documented that black Greeks did. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] LwL@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (3 children) ...the first search result being about a community that in its largest part started existing in 1923 is relevant to ancient history? I mean I don't know enough about ancient demographics to comment on whether there would feasibly be more than an extremely tiny minority of sub-saharan africans in ancient greece, but claiming someone didn't search and then providing an irrelevant search result has a certain irony to it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (2 children) That's my bad, I had 2 links open in 2 tabs and copied the wrong one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] LwL@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Thanks, now I know a little more about ancient greek demographics! Well it still seems to be mainly about greeks in africa, but some exchange both ways seems inevitable when it's that prominent. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago It goes both ways. Ultimately, it's that the Greeks (and Romans) were obsessed with Egypt, and Egypt was in direct and lasting contact with the Nubians (modern Sudan) and parts of modern Ethiopia because they were farther up the Nile. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (2 children) That's my bad, I had 2 links open in 2 tabs and copied the wrong one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Greeks permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] LwL@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Thanks, now I know a little more about ancient greek demographics! Well it still seems to be mainly about greeks in africa, but some exchange both ways seems inevitable when it's that prominent. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago It goes both ways. Ultimately, it's that the Greeks (and Romans) were obsessed with Egypt, and Egypt was in direct and lasting contact with the Nubians (modern Sudan) and parts of modern Ethiopia because they were farther up the Nile. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] LwL@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Thanks, now I know a little more about ancient greek demographics! Well it still seems to be mainly about greeks in africa, but some exchange both ways seems inevitable when it's that prominent. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago It goes both ways. Ultimately, it's that the Greeks (and Romans) were obsessed with Egypt, and Egypt was in direct and lasting contact with the Nubians (modern Sudan) and parts of modern Ethiopia because they were farther up the Nile. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago It goes both ways. Ultimately, it's that the Greeks (and Romans) were obsessed with Egypt, and Egypt was in direct and lasting contact with the Nubians (modern Sudan) and parts of modern Ethiopia because they were farther up the Nile. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Einskjaldi@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago It's on a long term cycle 50kyears ish where it goes from green to dry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_cell permalink fedilink source parent
[β] vpol@feddit.uk 41 points 9 months ago (21 children) There were plenty of sub-Saharan African people in Ancient Greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Skua@kbin.earth 29 points 9 months ago (3 children) I don't know about how many would have lived in Greece, but they're definitely in the tale of the Trojan War. There's a whole poem, Aethiopis, starring them. The original text is pretty much entirely lost, but we do have a Roman-era summary of it to give us the broad strokes. Aethiopians show up in other stuff too; Perseus fights a sea monster there, for example permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Skua@kbin.earth 5 points 9 months ago (1 child) Ahh, fair enough. I hope so too, I'd be interested to read that. I can believe there would be at least some, because there was definitely steady contact between those two parts of the world at that time, but I don't know specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 7 points 9 months ago (10 children) Define "plenty". The ancient Greeks didn't care about skin tone in the modern sense, so there isn't some racial census data like we have now. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ They make trivial to find references to black people and depict them in the manner they depict themselves in art. Because their division was not "Greek" and "black" but "Greek" and "not Greek", they simply didn't document it. Aristotle describes the ideal skin tone as halfway between an Ethiopian and a woman. Black people were quite literally unremarkable to them, so it's pretty easy to argue that an ancient Greek wouldn't find it odd to travel with a black person. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 months ago (8 children) Alright, demonstrate that the demographics are as you assert they are. I've shown you that they're depicted in their arts and culture, both as they depicted outsiders and as they depicted themselves, as well as that they had unremarkable interactions with Ethiopia and beyond. The link also details the history of using the racial composition of ancient Greece for all manner of racial weirdness that wasn't representative of the Greeks themselves, up to and including Internet race weirdos who get bent out of shape about a black person being depicted in a movie set in the Mediterranean. At this point you've been given plenty of evidence that there sufficient numbers of dark skinned people that it wasn't remarkable. If you disagree that it would somehow have been remarkable, or that this isn't a perfectly workable definition of "plenty", then show some reason why beyond "well everyone knows". Hell, demonstrate that there were plenty of white people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (6 children) Are you asking me why I have an opinion on something? Because I do. You don't need special reasons to make comments on a forum. You aren't listening. They depicted black people in the fashion that they depicted Greek people. They didn't find them a weird novelty. The nature of ancient Greek prejudice wouldn't have them depict people as Greek that they didn't consider Greek. That intrinsically says something about the cultural integration, because that's what the Greeks got weird over. If it was uncommon for them to be there they would have mentioned it because they mentioned all manner of uncommon things. If they were a part of the society, and common enough that it wasn't worth mentioning "...and then the one black guy in Athens showed up...", then it seems clear to me that that's "plenty". Nothing is being spun. I and others have given you evidence. You haven't and are just making vacuous claims. Why do you have the opinion you do about the skin tone content of ancient Greece? Is it the enlightenment era paintings of Greek philosophers as white as could be? That the paint fell off the statues so now they're just white marble? That all the black people in the pottery are "obviously" artistic choices, but the white people just .... Are? I'm sure you have a reason for thinking what you do, so what is it? Neither a conversation nor a debate works by one person demanding evidence, denying it, and then refusing to elaborate In their beliefs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children) In a debate or conversation, both parties state beliefs and, if it is a debate, which this appears to be, both parties state sources and/or studies conducted by themselves or others. It will be hard to prove anything about skin colour of an ancient civilization, especially when the civilization just did not give a fuck about skin colour. I think they had mixed skin tones (as in a bit of both) if there were white people in Greece. People can and always have been able to move to a different country, and thus, the country will have a bit of a mix. Ricecake has given plenty of sources. You should also drop a few sources if you want any chance of recovering from this absolute ratio. Please grow up, educate yourself, all civilizations have had multiple skin colours, most just don't give a fuck, and learn how to have a debate and find sources. Edit: When starting a debate, you should also have sources to back yourself up, otherwise it's an accusation, not an argument or debate. Please come back when you have sources and learn how to debate. I hope everyone involved has a day as good as they are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [β] TachyonTele@piefed.social 6 points 9 months ago (4 children) Yes, we have plenty of sources for colored cyclops during ancient greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) They were living beside the main continent where black people come from? People migrate, and honestly, most civilizations portrayed as mostly white are mostly people of colour. It does not matter if there was a person of colour in a place that did not care about skin tones, and probably was a large portion people of colour; they were on the same land mass, and frankly did not care. You are making a bad reputation for yourself by demanding sources, then dismissing them when they're given, without giving any yourself. Please learn how to have a debate, online or not. Regardless of whether Greece was mostly people of colour or not doesn't really matter, and if it ruins a movie for someone, unless it's a large part of the lore, they're racist, usually even if it is part of the lore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Skua@kbin.earth 29 points 9 months ago (3 children) I don't know about how many would have lived in Greece, but they're definitely in the tale of the Trojan War. There's a whole poem, Aethiopis, starring them. The original text is pretty much entirely lost, but we do have a Roman-era summary of it to give us the broad strokes. Aethiopians show up in other stuff too; Perseus fights a sea monster there, for example permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Skua@kbin.earth 5 points 9 months ago (1 child) Ahh, fair enough. I hope so too, I'd be interested to read that. I can believe there would be at least some, because there was definitely steady contact between those two parts of the world at that time, but I don't know specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 7 points 9 months ago (10 children) Define "plenty". The ancient Greeks didn't care about skin tone in the modern sense, so there isn't some racial census data like we have now. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ They make trivial to find references to black people and depict them in the manner they depict themselves in art. Because their division was not "Greek" and "black" but "Greek" and "not Greek", they simply didn't document it. Aristotle describes the ideal skin tone as halfway between an Ethiopian and a woman. Black people were quite literally unremarkable to them, so it's pretty easy to argue that an ancient Greek wouldn't find it odd to travel with a black person. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 months ago (8 children) Alright, demonstrate that the demographics are as you assert they are. I've shown you that they're depicted in their arts and culture, both as they depicted outsiders and as they depicted themselves, as well as that they had unremarkable interactions with Ethiopia and beyond. The link also details the history of using the racial composition of ancient Greece for all manner of racial weirdness that wasn't representative of the Greeks themselves, up to and including Internet race weirdos who get bent out of shape about a black person being depicted in a movie set in the Mediterranean. At this point you've been given plenty of evidence that there sufficient numbers of dark skinned people that it wasn't remarkable. If you disagree that it would somehow have been remarkable, or that this isn't a perfectly workable definition of "plenty", then show some reason why beyond "well everyone knows". Hell, demonstrate that there were plenty of white people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (6 children) Are you asking me why I have an opinion on something? Because I do. You don't need special reasons to make comments on a forum. You aren't listening. They depicted black people in the fashion that they depicted Greek people. They didn't find them a weird novelty. The nature of ancient Greek prejudice wouldn't have them depict people as Greek that they didn't consider Greek. That intrinsically says something about the cultural integration, because that's what the Greeks got weird over. If it was uncommon for them to be there they would have mentioned it because they mentioned all manner of uncommon things. If they were a part of the society, and common enough that it wasn't worth mentioning "...and then the one black guy in Athens showed up...", then it seems clear to me that that's "plenty". Nothing is being spun. I and others have given you evidence. You haven't and are just making vacuous claims. Why do you have the opinion you do about the skin tone content of ancient Greece? Is it the enlightenment era paintings of Greek philosophers as white as could be? That the paint fell off the statues so now they're just white marble? That all the black people in the pottery are "obviously" artistic choices, but the white people just .... Are? I'm sure you have a reason for thinking what you do, so what is it? Neither a conversation nor a debate works by one person demanding evidence, denying it, and then refusing to elaborate In their beliefs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children) In a debate or conversation, both parties state beliefs and, if it is a debate, which this appears to be, both parties state sources and/or studies conducted by themselves or others. It will be hard to prove anything about skin colour of an ancient civilization, especially when the civilization just did not give a fuck about skin colour. I think they had mixed skin tones (as in a bit of both) if there were white people in Greece. People can and always have been able to move to a different country, and thus, the country will have a bit of a mix. Ricecake has given plenty of sources. You should also drop a few sources if you want any chance of recovering from this absolute ratio. Please grow up, educate yourself, all civilizations have had multiple skin colours, most just don't give a fuck, and learn how to have a debate and find sources. Edit: When starting a debate, you should also have sources to back yourself up, otherwise it's an accusation, not an argument or debate. Please come back when you have sources and learn how to debate. I hope everyone involved has a day as good as they are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [β] TachyonTele@piefed.social 6 points 9 months ago (4 children) Yes, we have plenty of sources for colored cyclops during ancient greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) They were living beside the main continent where black people come from? People migrate, and honestly, most civilizations portrayed as mostly white are mostly people of colour. It does not matter if there was a person of colour in a place that did not care about skin tones, and probably was a large portion people of colour; they were on the same land mass, and frankly did not care. You are making a bad reputation for yourself by demanding sources, then dismissing them when they're given, without giving any yourself. Please learn how to have a debate, online or not. Regardless of whether Greece was mostly people of colour or not doesn't really matter, and if it ruins a movie for someone, unless it's a large part of the lore, they're racist, usually even if it is part of the lore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Skua@kbin.earth 29 points 9 months ago (3 children) I don't know about how many would have lived in Greece, but they're definitely in the tale of the Trojan War. There's a whole poem, Aethiopis, starring them. The original text is pretty much entirely lost, but we do have a Roman-era summary of it to give us the broad strokes. Aethiopians show up in other stuff too; Perseus fights a sea monster there, for example permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Skua@kbin.earth 5 points 9 months ago (1 child) Ahh, fair enough. I hope so too, I'd be interested to read that. I can believe there would be at least some, because there was definitely steady contact between those two parts of the world at that time, but I don't know specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Skua@kbin.earth 5 points 9 months ago (1 child) Ahh, fair enough. I hope so too, I'd be interested to read that. I can believe there would be at least some, because there was definitely steady contact between those two parts of the world at that time, but I don't know specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Skua@kbin.earth 5 points 9 months ago (1 child) Ahh, fair enough. I hope so too, I'd be interested to read that. I can believe there would be at least some, because there was definitely steady contact between those two parts of the world at that time, but I don't know specifics permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 7 points 9 months ago (10 children) Define "plenty". The ancient Greeks didn't care about skin tone in the modern sense, so there isn't some racial census data like we have now. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ They make trivial to find references to black people and depict them in the manner they depict themselves in art. Because their division was not "Greek" and "black" but "Greek" and "not Greek", they simply didn't document it. Aristotle describes the ideal skin tone as halfway between an Ethiopian and a woman. Black people were quite literally unremarkable to them, so it's pretty easy to argue that an ancient Greek wouldn't find it odd to travel with a black person. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 months ago (8 children) Alright, demonstrate that the demographics are as you assert they are. I've shown you that they're depicted in their arts and culture, both as they depicted outsiders and as they depicted themselves, as well as that they had unremarkable interactions with Ethiopia and beyond. The link also details the history of using the racial composition of ancient Greece for all manner of racial weirdness that wasn't representative of the Greeks themselves, up to and including Internet race weirdos who get bent out of shape about a black person being depicted in a movie set in the Mediterranean. At this point you've been given plenty of evidence that there sufficient numbers of dark skinned people that it wasn't remarkable. If you disagree that it would somehow have been remarkable, or that this isn't a perfectly workable definition of "plenty", then show some reason why beyond "well everyone knows". Hell, demonstrate that there were plenty of white people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (6 children) Are you asking me why I have an opinion on something? Because I do. You don't need special reasons to make comments on a forum. You aren't listening. They depicted black people in the fashion that they depicted Greek people. They didn't find them a weird novelty. The nature of ancient Greek prejudice wouldn't have them depict people as Greek that they didn't consider Greek. That intrinsically says something about the cultural integration, because that's what the Greeks got weird over. If it was uncommon for them to be there they would have mentioned it because they mentioned all manner of uncommon things. If they were a part of the society, and common enough that it wasn't worth mentioning "...and then the one black guy in Athens showed up...", then it seems clear to me that that's "plenty". Nothing is being spun. I and others have given you evidence. You haven't and are just making vacuous claims. Why do you have the opinion you do about the skin tone content of ancient Greece? Is it the enlightenment era paintings of Greek philosophers as white as could be? That the paint fell off the statues so now they're just white marble? That all the black people in the pottery are "obviously" artistic choices, but the white people just .... Are? I'm sure you have a reason for thinking what you do, so what is it? Neither a conversation nor a debate works by one person demanding evidence, denying it, and then refusing to elaborate In their beliefs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children) In a debate or conversation, both parties state beliefs and, if it is a debate, which this appears to be, both parties state sources and/or studies conducted by themselves or others. It will be hard to prove anything about skin colour of an ancient civilization, especially when the civilization just did not give a fuck about skin colour. I think they had mixed skin tones (as in a bit of both) if there were white people in Greece. People can and always have been able to move to a different country, and thus, the country will have a bit of a mix. Ricecake has given plenty of sources. You should also drop a few sources if you want any chance of recovering from this absolute ratio. Please grow up, educate yourself, all civilizations have had multiple skin colours, most just don't give a fuck, and learn how to have a debate and find sources. Edit: When starting a debate, you should also have sources to back yourself up, otherwise it's an accusation, not an argument or debate. Please come back when you have sources and learn how to debate. I hope everyone involved has a day as good as they are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 months ago (8 children) Alright, demonstrate that the demographics are as you assert they are. I've shown you that they're depicted in their arts and culture, both as they depicted outsiders and as they depicted themselves, as well as that they had unremarkable interactions with Ethiopia and beyond. The link also details the history of using the racial composition of ancient Greece for all manner of racial weirdness that wasn't representative of the Greeks themselves, up to and including Internet race weirdos who get bent out of shape about a black person being depicted in a movie set in the Mediterranean. At this point you've been given plenty of evidence that there sufficient numbers of dark skinned people that it wasn't remarkable. If you disagree that it would somehow have been remarkable, or that this isn't a perfectly workable definition of "plenty", then show some reason why beyond "well everyone knows". Hell, demonstrate that there were plenty of white people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (6 children) Are you asking me why I have an opinion on something? Because I do. You don't need special reasons to make comments on a forum. You aren't listening. They depicted black people in the fashion that they depicted Greek people. They didn't find them a weird novelty. The nature of ancient Greek prejudice wouldn't have them depict people as Greek that they didn't consider Greek. That intrinsically says something about the cultural integration, because that's what the Greeks got weird over. If it was uncommon for them to be there they would have mentioned it because they mentioned all manner of uncommon things. If they were a part of the society, and common enough that it wasn't worth mentioning "...and then the one black guy in Athens showed up...", then it seems clear to me that that's "plenty". Nothing is being spun. I and others have given you evidence. You haven't and are just making vacuous claims. Why do you have the opinion you do about the skin tone content of ancient Greece? Is it the enlightenment era paintings of Greek philosophers as white as could be? That the paint fell off the statues so now they're just white marble? That all the black people in the pottery are "obviously" artistic choices, but the white people just .... Are? I'm sure you have a reason for thinking what you do, so what is it? Neither a conversation nor a debate works by one person demanding evidence, denying it, and then refusing to elaborate In their beliefs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children) In a debate or conversation, both parties state beliefs and, if it is a debate, which this appears to be, both parties state sources and/or studies conducted by themselves or others. It will be hard to prove anything about skin colour of an ancient civilization, especially when the civilization just did not give a fuck about skin colour. I think they had mixed skin tones (as in a bit of both) if there were white people in Greece. People can and always have been able to move to a different country, and thus, the country will have a bit of a mix. Ricecake has given plenty of sources. You should also drop a few sources if you want any chance of recovering from this absolute ratio. Please grow up, educate yourself, all civilizations have had multiple skin colours, most just don't give a fuck, and learn how to have a debate and find sources. Edit: When starting a debate, you should also have sources to back yourself up, otherwise it's an accusation, not an argument or debate. Please come back when you have sources and learn how to debate. I hope everyone involved has a day as good as they are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 months ago (8 children) Alright, demonstrate that the demographics are as you assert they are. I've shown you that they're depicted in their arts and culture, both as they depicted outsiders and as they depicted themselves, as well as that they had unremarkable interactions with Ethiopia and beyond. The link also details the history of using the racial composition of ancient Greece for all manner of racial weirdness that wasn't representative of the Greeks themselves, up to and including Internet race weirdos who get bent out of shape about a black person being depicted in a movie set in the Mediterranean. At this point you've been given plenty of evidence that there sufficient numbers of dark skinned people that it wasn't remarkable. If you disagree that it would somehow have been remarkable, or that this isn't a perfectly workable definition of "plenty", then show some reason why beyond "well everyone knows". Hell, demonstrate that there were plenty of white people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (6 children) Are you asking me why I have an opinion on something? Because I do. You don't need special reasons to make comments on a forum. You aren't listening. They depicted black people in the fashion that they depicted Greek people. They didn't find them a weird novelty. The nature of ancient Greek prejudice wouldn't have them depict people as Greek that they didn't consider Greek. That intrinsically says something about the cultural integration, because that's what the Greeks got weird over. If it was uncommon for them to be there they would have mentioned it because they mentioned all manner of uncommon things. If they were a part of the society, and common enough that it wasn't worth mentioning "...and then the one black guy in Athens showed up...", then it seems clear to me that that's "plenty". Nothing is being spun. I and others have given you evidence. You haven't and are just making vacuous claims. Why do you have the opinion you do about the skin tone content of ancient Greece? Is it the enlightenment era paintings of Greek philosophers as white as could be? That the paint fell off the statues so now they're just white marble? That all the black people in the pottery are "obviously" artistic choices, but the white people just .... Are? I'm sure you have a reason for thinking what you do, so what is it? Neither a conversation nor a debate works by one person demanding evidence, denying it, and then refusing to elaborate In their beliefs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children) In a debate or conversation, both parties state beliefs and, if it is a debate, which this appears to be, both parties state sources and/or studies conducted by themselves or others. It will be hard to prove anything about skin colour of an ancient civilization, especially when the civilization just did not give a fuck about skin colour. I think they had mixed skin tones (as in a bit of both) if there were white people in Greece. People can and always have been able to move to a different country, and thus, the country will have a bit of a mix. Ricecake has given plenty of sources. You should also drop a few sources if you want any chance of recovering from this absolute ratio. Please grow up, educate yourself, all civilizations have had multiple skin colours, most just don't give a fuck, and learn how to have a debate and find sources. Edit: When starting a debate, you should also have sources to back yourself up, otherwise it's an accusation, not an argument or debate. Please come back when you have sources and learn how to debate. I hope everyone involved has a day as good as they are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (6 children) Are you asking me why I have an opinion on something? Because I do. You don't need special reasons to make comments on a forum. You aren't listening. They depicted black people in the fashion that they depicted Greek people. They didn't find them a weird novelty. The nature of ancient Greek prejudice wouldn't have them depict people as Greek that they didn't consider Greek. That intrinsically says something about the cultural integration, because that's what the Greeks got weird over. If it was uncommon for them to be there they would have mentioned it because they mentioned all manner of uncommon things. If they were a part of the society, and common enough that it wasn't worth mentioning "...and then the one black guy in Athens showed up...", then it seems clear to me that that's "plenty". Nothing is being spun. I and others have given you evidence. You haven't and are just making vacuous claims. Why do you have the opinion you do about the skin tone content of ancient Greece? Is it the enlightenment era paintings of Greek philosophers as white as could be? That the paint fell off the statues so now they're just white marble? That all the black people in the pottery are "obviously" artistic choices, but the white people just .... Are? I'm sure you have a reason for thinking what you do, so what is it? Neither a conversation nor a debate works by one person demanding evidence, denying it, and then refusing to elaborate In their beliefs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children) In a debate or conversation, both parties state beliefs and, if it is a debate, which this appears to be, both parties state sources and/or studies conducted by themselves or others. It will be hard to prove anything about skin colour of an ancient civilization, especially when the civilization just did not give a fuck about skin colour. I think they had mixed skin tones (as in a bit of both) if there were white people in Greece. People can and always have been able to move to a different country, and thus, the country will have a bit of a mix. Ricecake has given plenty of sources. You should also drop a few sources if you want any chance of recovering from this absolute ratio. Please grow up, educate yourself, all civilizations have had multiple skin colours, most just don't give a fuck, and learn how to have a debate and find sources. Edit: When starting a debate, you should also have sources to back yourself up, otherwise it's an accusation, not an argument or debate. Please come back when you have sources and learn how to debate. I hope everyone involved has a day as good as they are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (6 children) Are you asking me why I have an opinion on something? Because I do. You don't need special reasons to make comments on a forum. You aren't listening. They depicted black people in the fashion that they depicted Greek people. They didn't find them a weird novelty. The nature of ancient Greek prejudice wouldn't have them depict people as Greek that they didn't consider Greek. That intrinsically says something about the cultural integration, because that's what the Greeks got weird over. If it was uncommon for them to be there they would have mentioned it because they mentioned all manner of uncommon things. If they were a part of the society, and common enough that it wasn't worth mentioning "...and then the one black guy in Athens showed up...", then it seems clear to me that that's "plenty". Nothing is being spun. I and others have given you evidence. You haven't and are just making vacuous claims. Why do you have the opinion you do about the skin tone content of ancient Greece? Is it the enlightenment era paintings of Greek philosophers as white as could be? That the paint fell off the statues so now they're just white marble? That all the black people in the pottery are "obviously" artistic choices, but the white people just .... Are? I'm sure you have a reason for thinking what you do, so what is it? Neither a conversation nor a debate works by one person demanding evidence, denying it, and then refusing to elaborate In their beliefs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children) In a debate or conversation, both parties state beliefs and, if it is a debate, which this appears to be, both parties state sources and/or studies conducted by themselves or others. It will be hard to prove anything about skin colour of an ancient civilization, especially when the civilization just did not give a fuck about skin colour. I think they had mixed skin tones (as in a bit of both) if there were white people in Greece. People can and always have been able to move to a different country, and thus, the country will have a bit of a mix. Ricecake has given plenty of sources. You should also drop a few sources if you want any chance of recovering from this absolute ratio. Please grow up, educate yourself, all civilizations have had multiple skin colours, most just don't give a fuck, and learn how to have a debate and find sources. Edit: When starting a debate, you should also have sources to back yourself up, otherwise it's an accusation, not an argument or debate. Please come back when you have sources and learn how to debate. I hope everyone involved has a day as good as they are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children) In a debate or conversation, both parties state beliefs and, if it is a debate, which this appears to be, both parties state sources and/or studies conducted by themselves or others. It will be hard to prove anything about skin colour of an ancient civilization, especially when the civilization just did not give a fuck about skin colour. I think they had mixed skin tones (as in a bit of both) if there were white people in Greece. People can and always have been able to move to a different country, and thus, the country will have a bit of a mix. Ricecake has given plenty of sources. You should also drop a few sources if you want any chance of recovering from this absolute ratio. Please grow up, educate yourself, all civilizations have had multiple skin colours, most just don't give a fuck, and learn how to have a debate and find sources. Edit: When starting a debate, you should also have sources to back yourself up, otherwise it's an accusation, not an argument or debate. Please come back when you have sources and learn how to debate. I hope everyone involved has a day as good as they are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children) In a debate or conversation, both parties state beliefs and, if it is a debate, which this appears to be, both parties state sources and/or studies conducted by themselves or others. It will be hard to prove anything about skin colour of an ancient civilization, especially when the civilization just did not give a fuck about skin colour. I think they had mixed skin tones (as in a bit of both) if there were white people in Greece. People can and always have been able to move to a different country, and thus, the country will have a bit of a mix. Ricecake has given plenty of sources. You should also drop a few sources if you want any chance of recovering from this absolute ratio. Please grow up, educate yourself, all civilizations have had multiple skin colours, most just don't give a fuck, and learn how to have a debate and find sources. Edit: When starting a debate, you should also have sources to back yourself up, otherwise it's an accusation, not an argument or debate. Please come back when you have sources and learn how to debate. I hope everyone involved has a day as good as they are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago Fair permalink fedilink source parent
[β] TachyonTele@piefed.social 6 points 9 months ago (4 children) Yes, we have plenty of sources for colored cyclops during ancient greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) They were living beside the main continent where black people come from? People migrate, and honestly, most civilizations portrayed as mostly white are mostly people of colour. It does not matter if there was a person of colour in a place that did not care about skin tones, and probably was a large portion people of colour; they were on the same land mass, and frankly did not care. You are making a bad reputation for yourself by demanding sources, then dismissing them when they're given, without giving any yourself. Please learn how to have a debate, online or not. Regardless of whether Greece was mostly people of colour or not doesn't really matter, and if it ruins a movie for someone, unless it's a large part of the lore, they're racist, usually even if it is part of the lore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) They were living beside the main continent where black people come from? People migrate, and honestly, most civilizations portrayed as mostly white are mostly people of colour. It does not matter if there was a person of colour in a place that did not care about skin tones, and probably was a large portion people of colour; they were on the same land mass, and frankly did not care. You are making a bad reputation for yourself by demanding sources, then dismissing them when they're given, without giving any yourself. Please learn how to have a debate, online or not. Regardless of whether Greece was mostly people of colour or not doesn't really matter, and if it ruins a movie for someone, unless it's a large part of the lore, they're racist, usually even if it is part of the lore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) They were living beside the main continent where black people come from? People migrate, and honestly, most civilizations portrayed as mostly white are mostly people of colour. It does not matter if there was a person of colour in a place that did not care about skin tones, and probably was a large portion people of colour; they were on the same land mass, and frankly did not care. You are making a bad reputation for yourself by demanding sources, then dismissing them when they're given, without giving any yourself. Please learn how to have a debate, online or not. Regardless of whether Greece was mostly people of colour or not doesn't really matter, and if it ruins a movie for someone, unless it's a large part of the lore, they're racist, usually even if it is part of the lore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ See my other comment permalink fedilink source parent
[β] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 24 points 9 months ago (26 children) North Africans had trade routes going all the way into modern day Tanzania, and a big chunk of modern day Sudan used to be part of Ancient Egypt. The Iliad itself mentions people from Sudan. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 29 points 9 months ago (4 children) Like Aethiopians that are literally in the Illiad? Maybe Homer was woke too. /s There were some black people in the Mediterranean in ancient times. Egypt even had dynasties led by black people. Europeans didn't find about black people suddenly in the 14th century. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] TachyonTele@piefed.social 4 points 9 months ago (1 child) They portray a mythical creature. Take your meds. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago I honestly don't know why modern society gives a fuck about what colour someone's skin is. It does not matter, unless, say, you need a police report to catch a criminal, or an Amber alert, or a missing person, as usual examples. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago* (19 children) Like they literally exist in Greece today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_Greeks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Greeks Ignorance isnβt a sin, but youβre not even trying. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 19 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (17 children) Did you read the articles? Guess not. These small communities are direct descendants of the ones from ancient Greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (15 children) Ah, my bad. So itβs possible for Greeks to have travelled All the way to Ethiopia in ancient times and have populations that survived to this day, but not the other way around? Interesting way of thinking. Here you go then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avato permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 15 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (13 children) Ever heard of the term βgenetic admixtureβ and population dispersion / cultural assimilation? Letβs disregard Herodotusβ description of Colchians for now since itβs disputed. Here is an example of an ethically African population living in present-day Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Abkhazians Not to mention all the ethnic groups displaced during the population exchange during the Greco-Turkish war in the 1920s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 0 points 9 months ago (12 children) This conversation is so weird. We're specifically talking about Ancient Greece and again and again you share stuff that isn't about Ancient Greece? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 29 points 9 months ago (4 children) Like Aethiopians that are literally in the Illiad? Maybe Homer was woke too. /s There were some black people in the Mediterranean in ancient times. Egypt even had dynasties led by black people. Europeans didn't find about black people suddenly in the 14th century. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] TachyonTele@piefed.social 4 points 9 months ago (1 child) They portray a mythical creature. Take your meds. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago I honestly don't know why modern society gives a fuck about what colour someone's skin is. It does not matter, unless, say, you need a police report to catch a criminal, or an Amber alert, or a missing person, as usual examples. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago* (19 children) Like they literally exist in Greece today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_Greeks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Greeks Ignorance isnβt a sin, but youβre not even trying. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 19 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (17 children) Did you read the articles? Guess not. These small communities are direct descendants of the ones from ancient Greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (15 children) Ah, my bad. So itβs possible for Greeks to have travelled All the way to Ethiopia in ancient times and have populations that survived to this day, but not the other way around? Interesting way of thinking. Here you go then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avato permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 15 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (13 children) Ever heard of the term βgenetic admixtureβ and population dispersion / cultural assimilation? Letβs disregard Herodotusβ description of Colchians for now since itβs disputed. Here is an example of an ethically African population living in present-day Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Abkhazians Not to mention all the ethnic groups displaced during the population exchange during the Greco-Turkish war in the 1920s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 0 points 9 months ago (12 children) This conversation is so weird. We're specifically talking about Ancient Greece and again and again you share stuff that isn't about Ancient Greece? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 29 points 9 months ago (4 children) Like Aethiopians that are literally in the Illiad? Maybe Homer was woke too. /s There were some black people in the Mediterranean in ancient times. Egypt even had dynasties led by black people. Europeans didn't find about black people suddenly in the 14th century. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] TachyonTele@piefed.social 4 points 9 months ago (1 child) They portray a mythical creature. Take your meds. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago I honestly don't know why modern society gives a fuck about what colour someone's skin is. It does not matter, unless, say, you need a police report to catch a criminal, or an Amber alert, or a missing person, as usual examples. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] TachyonTele@piefed.social 4 points 9 months ago (1 child) They portray a mythical creature. Take your meds. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[β] TachyonTele@piefed.social 4 points 9 months ago (1 child) They portray a mythical creature. Take your meds. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago I honestly don't know why modern society gives a fuck about what colour someone's skin is. It does not matter, unless, say, you need a police report to catch a criminal, or an Amber alert, or a missing person, as usual examples. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago* (19 children) Like they literally exist in Greece today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_Greeks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Greeks Ignorance isnβt a sin, but youβre not even trying. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 19 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (17 children) Did you read the articles? Guess not. These small communities are direct descendants of the ones from ancient Greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (15 children) Ah, my bad. So itβs possible for Greeks to have travelled All the way to Ethiopia in ancient times and have populations that survived to this day, but not the other way around? Interesting way of thinking. Here you go then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avato permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 15 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (13 children) Ever heard of the term βgenetic admixtureβ and population dispersion / cultural assimilation? Letβs disregard Herodotusβ description of Colchians for now since itβs disputed. Here is an example of an ethically African population living in present-day Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Abkhazians Not to mention all the ethnic groups displaced during the population exchange during the Greco-Turkish war in the 1920s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 0 points 9 months ago (12 children) This conversation is so weird. We're specifically talking about Ancient Greece and again and again you share stuff that isn't about Ancient Greece? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (17 children) Did you read the articles? Guess not. These small communities are direct descendants of the ones from ancient Greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (15 children) Ah, my bad. So itβs possible for Greeks to have travelled All the way to Ethiopia in ancient times and have populations that survived to this day, but not the other way around? Interesting way of thinking. Here you go then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avato permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 15 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (13 children) Ever heard of the term βgenetic admixtureβ and population dispersion / cultural assimilation? Letβs disregard Herodotusβ description of Colchians for now since itβs disputed. Here is an example of an ethically African population living in present-day Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Abkhazians Not to mention all the ethnic groups displaced during the population exchange during the Greco-Turkish war in the 1920s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 0 points 9 months ago (12 children) This conversation is so weird. We're specifically talking about Ancient Greece and again and again you share stuff that isn't about Ancient Greece? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (17 children) Did you read the articles? Guess not. These small communities are direct descendants of the ones from ancient Greece. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (15 children) Ah, my bad. So itβs possible for Greeks to have travelled All the way to Ethiopia in ancient times and have populations that survived to this day, but not the other way around? Interesting way of thinking. Here you go then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avato permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 15 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (13 children) Ever heard of the term βgenetic admixtureβ and population dispersion / cultural assimilation? Letβs disregard Herodotusβ description of Colchians for now since itβs disputed. Here is an example of an ethically African population living in present-day Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Abkhazians Not to mention all the ethnic groups displaced during the population exchange during the Greco-Turkish war in the 1920s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 0 points 9 months ago (12 children) This conversation is so weird. We're specifically talking about Ancient Greece and again and again you share stuff that isn't about Ancient Greece? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (15 children) Ah, my bad. So itβs possible for Greeks to have travelled All the way to Ethiopia in ancient times and have populations that survived to this day, but not the other way around? Interesting way of thinking. Here you go then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avato permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 15 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (13 children) Ever heard of the term βgenetic admixtureβ and population dispersion / cultural assimilation? Letβs disregard Herodotusβ description of Colchians for now since itβs disputed. Here is an example of an ethically African population living in present-day Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Abkhazians Not to mention all the ethnic groups displaced during the population exchange during the Greco-Turkish war in the 1920s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 0 points 9 months ago (12 children) This conversation is so weird. We're specifically talking about Ancient Greece and again and again you share stuff that isn't about Ancient Greece? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (15 children) Ah, my bad. So itβs possible for Greeks to have travelled All the way to Ethiopia in ancient times and have populations that survived to this day, but not the other way around? Interesting way of thinking. Here you go then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avato permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 15 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (13 children) Ever heard of the term βgenetic admixtureβ and population dispersion / cultural assimilation? Letβs disregard Herodotusβ description of Colchians for now since itβs disputed. Here is an example of an ethically African population living in present-day Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Abkhazians Not to mention all the ethnic groups displaced during the population exchange during the Greco-Turkish war in the 1920s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 0 points 9 months ago (12 children) This conversation is so weird. We're specifically talking about Ancient Greece and again and again you share stuff that isn't about Ancient Greece? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (13 children) Ever heard of the term βgenetic admixtureβ and population dispersion / cultural assimilation? Letβs disregard Herodotusβ description of Colchians for now since itβs disputed. Here is an example of an ethically African population living in present-day Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Abkhazians Not to mention all the ethnic groups displaced during the population exchange during the Greco-Turkish war in the 1920s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 0 points 9 months ago (12 children) This conversation is so weird. We're specifically talking about Ancient Greece and again and again you share stuff that isn't about Ancient Greece? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] voodooattack@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (13 children) Ever heard of the term βgenetic admixtureβ and population dispersion / cultural assimilation? Letβs disregard Herodotusβ description of Colchians for now since itβs disputed. Here is an example of an ethically African population living in present-day Eastern Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Abkhazians Not to mention all the ethnic groups displaced during the population exchange during the Greco-Turkish war in the 1920s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 0 points 9 months ago (12 children) This conversation is so weird. We're specifically talking about Ancient Greece and again and again you share stuff that isn't about Ancient Greece? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Saapas@piefed.zip 0 points 9 months ago (12 children) This conversation is so weird. We're specifically talking about Ancient Greece and again and again you share stuff that isn't about Ancient Greece? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (11 children) bro theres plenty of sources stop being ignorant and start trying also yall are wrong. they were mostly people of colour somewhere between the two with some who were very white or black. we dont have much data on this because they frankly did not care about whether someone was white or black or anywhere in between. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (9 children) Thereβs plenty of links and sources in this one. Not quite Wikipedia quality in my opinion, but still, one quick search. You a clearly not looking if I could find one in 5(ish) seconds, while you demand sources. I would like you to give source(s) for your opinion now. While it is more of an article about if they were racist, it does explore their skin tone. They were not white, nor were they black; they were somewhere in between. https://lucas.leeds.ac.uk/article/skin-colour-in-ancient-greece/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (7 children) Itβs in there. I saw it. Takes a minute to find permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children) Just a min Iβll go find I was probably a bit tired while reading it and misinterpreted ! those but idk this is a pointless argument anyways and Iβll add more when I have the energy, youβll have to remind me though permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (4 children) This pic didnβt fit in other comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) [disengage] I have more points, im just too tired for this permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Saapas@piefed.zip 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) That is fine, I was just hoping to see something actually address the original claimΒ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Camille_Jamal@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago Fair, sorry! permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Snowclone@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (3 children) they weren't white either. and black Africans were well known to all of Africa and the Mediterranean FAR further back than written history. Greeks aren't even white, as far as you want to use "white" as some kind of identification, it's useless other than as a racist concept to harm other people, but the most generous inclusions are pretty fucking difficult to include Greeks in. dark skin, woolly hair, blunt noses, a language distinctly outside European language roots. you got nothing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Snowclone@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Sorry, man, I thought this was about that film and the actors in it, and their ethnicity. my bad. didn't realize you were having a no context argument unrelated to this entire fucking thread. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] Snowclone@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Sorry, man, I thought this was about that film and the actors in it, and their ethnicity. my bad. didn't realize you were having a no context argument unrelated to this entire fucking thread. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[β] Snowclone@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Sorry, man, I thought this was about that film and the actors in it, and their ethnicity. my bad. didn't realize you were having a no context argument unrelated to this entire fucking thread. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[β] NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (3 children) βHow dare this work of fiction not be my interpretation of historically accurate?!β permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) And my complaint is that that is a stupid fucking childβs complaint. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[β] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [β] NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) And my complaint is that that is a stupid fucking childβs complaint. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[β] NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) And my complaint is that that is a stupid fucking childβs complaint. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
