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[–] 115 points 1 year ago (59 children)

I love AOC, but she will lose.

The American people have shown that they would rather have a convicted felon, rapist, fascist pedophile than a highly qualified woman.

It's stupid, but it's reality.

A woman candidate is a non starter.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    In all likelihood, yes, she will lose.

    But she should still run for the same reasons Bernie ran. Change the discourse and prevent unfettered ratcheting of the Overton window; force Democrats to respond to her challenge.

    If she doesn't run, we all lose. Winning isn't quite everything.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If the dems lose in 2028, assuming there is an election, the fascists will consolidate power and the U.S. will be a dictatorship for 40 years.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Exactly. The Primary process is about getting your policies in the platform as much as it is getting you candidate(s) the nomination. She should run, a "standard neoliberal" should run, a corporatist should run etc.... the process is allowed to be messy.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    To be fair, Clinton and Harris and the platform were not particularly exciting, and they played by the old rules.

    Misogyny may have been a contributing factor, but not being bold, exciting, or authentic sure as hell didn’t help.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    maybe let the people who actually vote for the party decide who they prefer as candidates, rather than having the gerontocracy alone dictate that choice

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago

    maybe let the people who actually vote for the party decide who they prefer as candidates

    Those people said "Clinton" and then "Biden". Both over Bernie, who was far more charismatic than both and with a fucking spotless record, unlike both.

    Not sure that the primary voters'll be delivering a progressive savior unless the demographics of who votes in Dem primaries changes radically.

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  • [–] 135 points 1 year ago (26 children)

    Unlike Kamala and Clinton she actually believes in something, and not just the Dems' very rich corporate donors.

    look at Zohran Mamdani in New York. He's a Muslim, foreign born, socialist. Plenty of things that by the same logic would make him loose. But he won the primary and odds are he'll Winn the mayor position.

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  • [–] 60 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    NYC does not extrapolate out to the US, or things would look very different these days.

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  • [–] 55 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    The issue is we've never actually tried to run a populist left candidate. So everyone saying, "it'll never work!" have no real bases for that statement. (the closest we've ever been was Sanders, and the DNC ensured that he was not going to be on the ballot.)

    A TRUE LEFT POPULIST WILL WIN! in my opinion

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    We actually did, his name was Franklin D. Roosevelt.

    Sure if we hold him up to today's standards not a progressive by any means, but he campaigned on working class issues and helped steer the country out of the depression. He created virtually all our modern safety nets or their predecessors.

    He was so popular a president that Congress amended the constitution to ensure no other president could have more than 2 terms. He was so popular congress was afraid it threatened the power of their branch of government.

    Running on and actually accomplishing worker centric policy works.

    And to fend of the inevitable yes he was not that progressive by today's measures and had a mountain of flaws. But his accomplishments were revolutionary for the country in his time.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I don't think running another center right candidate like we have since FDR will work. There's way more evidence that Americans want far left policies. Problem is that Americans are soooooooo politically uneducated it's scary

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Not according to election results?!

    When choices are far right and center right, center left and far left voters just stay home.

    And no. Educated people vote left at a much higher rate!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    No I'm saying just because you have coke and diet coke as options doesn't mean you have to drink one. Even more so when you can see water is an option but for some reason everyone demands you must drink diet coke because coke is less healthy.

    I didn't say uneducated. I said politically uneducated Americans (mostly center right and far right) think American tax money going to improve America is somehow communist. They think the government doing anything is an encroachment on freedoms. (while simultaneously deciding what other individuals can and cannot do to their own body)

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    I didnt say 'it'll never work!!', I said NYC <> the US. You can't compare the two and say "See, it works" when he isn't even elected yet, and its in a city that is absolutely further left than democrats on the national scale.

    I would love to see it work. One mayoral hopeful in a friendly city is not a reasonable comparison though.

    Edit: feel free to show me a single example somewhere red. I'd love it.

    When that happens, yeah, that'd be a good example.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    To bolster your point, a true progressive ran in 2018 in west Virginia- Paula Swearengin. She challenged Joe Manchin in the primary and lost 70-30.

    She then won the Democratic primary in 2020 for Senate and went on to lose in the general 70/27 (other votes to the libertarian.)

    People really need to understand that while Zohran and AOC are great there isn't some kind of silver bullet with progressivism across the country.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    How do we know that? In super deep red areas it's a uphill battle. But the most left wing president we've ran since FDR was Carter and I'd say he's more neoliberal/pure centrist than progressive/left. Once again, when you only run center and more right candidates; the more center candidates losing isn't really a sign America wants only right politics. It just means the more left wing voter stays home on elections.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don't know? Results?

    I want more progressive policies. Run em. But just don't be surprised if they get slaughtered.

    I think more than progressive policies people want younger people.

    But to Anyone down voting, great. I simply presented raw facts.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    It's not just policy, it's energy.

    Becoming a recognized name that sticks in people's heads is the biggest battle — this is usually the incumbent advantage: this was Manchin's advantage over Paula Jean Swearengin; but it was also Cuomo's advantage over Zohran Mamdani... and Cuomo lost. So there's another way to make yourself known: being disruptive.

    I loathe MAGA. They are assholes, but that's how they took over. That's what gets them covered in the news, they do constant theater saying asshole things. Literally everyone knows who Marjorie Taylor Greene is, whether they're into politics or not. Many MAGA politicians nowadays you know first from the podcast circuit. Yes they have an ecosystem but that doesn't mean we can't do guerrilla campaigning. After all, Mamdani still won, right?

    Now I'm not saying we need progressives to be assholes. But they should be more performative — loudmouths even: get up in people's faces, speak confidently and provocatively into the camera, tell people your values without them asking. Do things that aren't necessarily stunts, but that get labeled as stunts.

    Mamdani has done a bunch of this stuff, from telling Cuomo how to spell his name, to his full day walking through Manhattan and interacting with people, to how easily he answers even the hardest questions — I mean, you probably already know how good he is at this stuff and how easy he makes it look, so it might be tempting to think you can't replicate his success because of how uniquely talented he is, but let me give you another example:

    Kat Abughazaleh (YouTuber and investigative journalist for Mother Jones and Media Matters, currently running for Congress) has done arguably even more with her campaign: she's using campaign money for mutual aid (anyone can walk into their office and get free stuff except for ICE), feeding the homeless, Pride and Drag Queen Story Hour; she gave bigots the finger on camera and doubled down; she did a campaign event in a comedy club and turned it into a TED-style stand-up presentation about "General" Michael Flynn wanting to sell your blood. Her campaign slogan as a Democrat is "What if we didn't suck"! She started in single digits and now she's single digits away from first place. Watch her explain it though, to get a sense of the energy. (All the other stuff is on her channel too, I highly recommend the Flynn one btw!)

    You have to get creative and work the outrage media space, it's the only way. Get eyes on you and stand up for your values, loudly!

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    (the closest we’ve ever been was Sanders, and the DNC ensured that he was not going to be on the ballot.)

    Ah, yes, when the DNC forged millions of votes to make Sanders lose. Twice.

    Fuck's sake. Show up for the primaries next time, goddamn you.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I love when people use the results of the ratfucking to try to prove there was no ratfucking

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I love when people use the results of the ratfucking to try to prove there was no ratfucking

    Oh, great, we're back to the "Every poll was forged in a massive media conspiracy to cover the DNC's vote forgery" hours, it must be 2016 or 2020 after Super Tuesday.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    You could say also they’d rather select that than a qualified “person”. Should no opposition ever run again? Or is it clear that she was not chosen because of her gender? Maybe so, but that feels to me like it completely overlooks that there could be anything about her personality or positions responsible.

    I’m not comfortable saying AOC or any other woman is a non-starter because other women have failed. A lot of people have failed before and at some point perhaps one will be selected. I think she would be a good choice, and more appealing to many than Kamala, I suspect.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago

    Harris and Clinton both had major structural issues that went beyond their gender. I'm not ignoring the reality that women face a greater uphill battle--they need to be downright perfect in order to even get fair consideration--but I don't think that the fact that they are women was the only factor. I'm not even positive that it would be a deciding factor against someone who isn't Trump. His particular brand of politics really only works for him, somehow.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Losing the nomination would not be the end for AOC. But as a champion for the "Democratic Socialist" wind of the Democrats there's really not a better candidate to speak at the primaries and ensure that even in a primary loss the eventual winner adds parts their goals to the administrations goals.

    This is why the "Christian Conservatives" always run a few candidates in the Republican party, and why they've always got a spot in the Republican party platform.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The fact that Harris got as close as she did with so little time proves that she didn't lose because she's a woman. She lost because her policies sucked. Run someone who is honest and trying to help the people and I'd bet they do well, man, woman, or otherwise (OK, maybe a trans candidate actually couldn't win for now).

    The people saying those two lost because they're women are ignorant. They lost because they were shitty candidates. More men have lost than women, and no one says it's because they were men. It's just an easy excuse to ignore that people don't like corporate ass kissers who fuck over the average person to help the rich.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Another factor which IMHO led to her lose was that she didn't primary. So all the anger against Biden mostly transferred onto her. His blinding support to genocide, his greediness for the presidency, his support for big businesses, him breaking the railway workers strike just eroded any goodwill he did have.

    He did good things but optics of these didn't let good deeds to shine. They did cast a shadow over Kamala's campaign too.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Maybe people didn't vote for Clinton and Harris because both are complicit in war crimes?

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    After doing weeks of phone banking and door knocking, my read is that it was the economy and being unwilling to break the mould. They were more of the same and they were uninspiring.

    It was so rare that I would run into people who wanted to talk about foreign policy.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Are we forgetting that even as a corporate puppet establishment Dems AND a woman, Clinton got like ~4 million more votes than the Dipshit did. People DID vote for her. It's just our broken as fuck since 1929 electoral college that prevented that from counting.

    /#UncapTheHouse

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    You're a fool if you think that's the reason why.

    The average American voter doesn't give a shit about brown people dying in the Middle East.

    It's only about your football team winning, oh and women are too "emotional".

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Not a single one of them has ever been able to answer the question of "Even if you believe that, how does allowing Trump return to power make it any better or advance your position?"

    Cause it's not about the one person you are arguing with but the hundreds of thousands who won't say anything and vote against all that anyways.
    That one person didn't allow trump to come to power they just raised a voice for why they believe all the silent voters are voting the way they do and standing up for it to be heard by someone that will hopefully listen.

    I'm willing to bet that Obama was a fluke

    If the Democrat party puts forward a woman or minority in 2028, especially after 4 years of Trump stoking racial tensions, they're going to lose.

    Racist and sexist because you believe other people are doesn't make you any less.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    No you are just the person who thinks black people winning office positions is a fluke cause they could never do that properly.

    I'm not gonna argue with you further cause you are so up your own butt and think somehow you are the only person breathing fresh air.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago

    You are correct.

    Anyone downvoting you is just ignoring reality.

    There's a reason Trump has run 3 times and only lost once and it was to a man. A significant portion of this country in the right geographical areas will never vote for a woman to be president. And that includes a ton of women. And half of the country wants to burn AOC at the stake for being too liberal.

    She can't win the Electoral College.

    You want to get Bernied again? Vote for AOC.

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