I dunno (piefed.cdn.blahaj.zone)
 
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[+] 9 points 11 months ago (58 children)
  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago (57 children)

    Yeah I know that. But I was feeling confused as to why it was here. That's why I was feeling trolled, because it made me doubt basic math for being posted in a memes community.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (52 children)

    They did the joke wrong. To do it right you need to use the ÷ symbol. Because people never use that after they learn fractions, people treat things like a + b ÷ c + d as

    a + b
    -----
    c + d
    

    Or (a + b) ÷ (c + d) when they should be treating it as a + (b ÷ c) + d.

    That's the most common one of these "troll math" tricks. Because notating as

    a + b + d
        -
        c
    

    Is much more common and useful. So people get used to grouping everything around the division operator as if they're in parentheses.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (30 children)

    Or
    12 / 2(6)
    And trying to argue this is 36.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Well, now you might be running into syntax issues instead of PEMDAS issues depending on what they're confused about. If it's 12 over 2*6, it's 1. If it's 12 ÷ 2 x 6, it's 36.

    A lot of people try a bunch of funky stuff to represent fractions in text form (like mixing spaces and no spaces) when they should just be treating it like a programmer has to, and use parenthesis if it's a complex fraction in basic text form.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (20 children)

    Now that's a good troll math thing because it gets really deep into the weeds of mathematical notation. There isn't one true order of operations that is objectively correct, and on top of that, that's hardly the way most people would write that. As in, if you wrote that by hand, you wouldn't use the / symbol. You'd either use ÷ or a proper fraction.

    It's a good candidate for nerd sniping.

    Personally, I'd call that 36 as written given the context you're saying it in, instead of calling it 1. But I'd say it's ambiguous and you should notate in a way to avoid ambiguities. Especially if you're in the camp of multiplication like a(b) being different from ab and/or a × b.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (18 children)

    Please read this section of Wikipedia which talks about these topics better than I could. It shows that there is ambiguity in the order of operations and that for especially niche cases there is not a universally accepted order of operations when dealing with mixed division and multiplication. It addresses everything you've mentioned.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations#Mixed_division_and_multiplication

    There is no universal convention for interpreting an expression containing both division denoted by '÷' and multiplication denoted by '×'. Proposed conventions include assigning the operations equal precedence and evaluating them from left to right, or equivalently treating division as multiplication by the reciprocal and then evaluating in any order;[10] evaluating all multiplications first followed by divisions from left to right; or eschewing such expressions and instead always disambiguating them by explicit parentheses.[11]

    Beyond primary education, the symbol '÷' for division is seldom used, but is replaced by the use of algebraic fractions,[12] typically written vertically with the numerator stacked above the denominator – which makes grouping explicit and unambiguous – but sometimes written inline using the slash or solidus symbol '/'.[13]

    Multiplication denoted by juxtaposition (also known as implied multiplication) creates a visual unit and is often given higher precedence than most other operations. In academic literature, when inline fractions are combined with implied multiplication without explicit parentheses, the multiplication is conventionally interpreted as having higher precedence than division, so that e.g. 1 / 2n is interpreted to mean 1 / (2 · n) rather than (1 / 2) · n.[2][10][14][15] For instance, the manuscript submission instructions for the Physical Review journals directly state that multiplication has precedence over division,[16] and this is also the convention observed in physics textbooks such as the Course of Theoretical Physics by Landau and Lifshitz[c] and mathematics textbooks such as Concrete Mathematics by Graham, Knuth, and Patashnik.[17] However, some authors recommend against expressions such as a / bc, preferring the explicit use of parenthesis a / (bc).[3]

    More complicated cases are more ambiguous. For instance, the notation 1 / 2π(a + b) could plausibly mean either 1 / [2π · (a + b)] or [1 / (2π)] · (a + b).[18] Sometimes interpretation depends on context. The Physical Review submission instructions recommend against expressions of the form a / b / c; more explicit expressions (a / b) / c or a / (b / c) are unambiguous.[16]

    Image of two calculators getting different answers 6÷2(1+2) is interpreted as 6÷(2×(1+2)) by a fx-82MS (upper), and (6÷2)×(1+2) by a TI-83 Plus calculator (lower), respectively.

    This ambiguity has been the subject of Internet memes such as "8 ÷ 2(2 + 2)", for which there are two conflicting interpretations: 8 ÷ [2 · (2 + 2)] = 1 and (8 ÷ 2) · (2 + 2) = 16.[15][19] Mathematics education researcher Hung-Hsi Wu points out that "one never gets a computation of this type in real life", and calls such contrived examples "a kind of Gotcha! parlor game designed to trap an unsuspecting person by phrasing it in terms of a set of unreasonably convoluted rules".[12]

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (16 children)

    If you believe the article is incorrect, submit your corrections to Wikipedia instead of telling me.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago (15 children)

    If you believe the article is incorrect, submit your corrections to Wikipedia

    You know they've rejected corrections by actual Maths Professors right? Just look for Rick Norwood in the talk section. Everyone who knows Maths knows Wikipedia is wrong, and looks in the right place to begin with - Maths textbooks

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (14 children)

    Again, if you have a problem with Wikipedia, take it up with Wikipedia.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (12 children)

    Take it up with them if you have a problem with them.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    Take it up with them if you have a problem with them

    I see you're not even reading what I said. No wonder you don't know how to do Maths...

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (10 children)

    I did read everything you said and I do know how to do math. I hope you are able to enact the change you want to see in Wikipedia and the article. Good luck.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    I haven't ignored anything you said. I'm telling you that if you have a problem with those that you should contact them to fix them.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    It's funny that you define "ignore" as "not doing what you tell someone to" because by that definition you've been ignoring me too. Go edit the article if you feel this strongly.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    It’s funny that you define “ignore” as “not doing what you tell someone to”

    Nope, I didn't.

    because by that definition you’ve been ignoring me too

    I'm ignoring the person failing to cite Maths textbooks, yes, that's correct.

    Go edit the article if you feel this strongly

    Go read what I said about what happens when ACTUAL MATHS PROFESSORS have tried to do EXACTLY THAT 🙄

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Go tell Wikipedia about that, not me. It's a community you can join. You very clearly feel very strongly about it. Talking to me about it isn't going to change anything.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    Go tell Wikipedia about that, not me

    I'm telling you, the person pretending that it's mathematically valid information

    It’s a community you can join

    Yep, and be defeated, just like the Maths Professor Rick Norwood was, repeatedly.

    You very clearly feel very strongly about it.

    Maths textbooks, yes, which you keep ignoring

    Talking to me about it isn’t going to change anything

    And you talking about it isn't going to change that you are wrong

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)
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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    The P in PEMDAS means to solve everything within parentheses first; there is no "distribution" step or rule that says multiplying without a visible operator other than parentheses comes first. So yes, 36 is valid here. It's mostly because PEMDAS never shows up in the same context as this sort of multiplication or large fractions

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago* (5 children)

    Are you under the impression that atomizing your opponents statements and making a comment about each part individually without addressing the actual point (how those facts fit together) is a good debate tactic? Because it seems like all you've done is confuse yourself about what I was saying and make arguments that don't address it. Never mind that some of those micro-rebuttals aren't even correct.

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  • [–] -2 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    addressing the actual point (how those facts fit together)

    I did address the actual point - see Maths textbooks

    all you’ve done is confuse yourself

    I'm not confused at all. I'm the one who knows the difference between Distribution and Multiplication.

    what I was saying

    You lied about there being no such thing as "the Distribution step" (Brackets), proven wrong by the textbooks

    make arguments that don’t address it.

    Textbooks talking about The Distributive Law totally addresses your lie that no such step exists.

    Never mind that some of those micro-rebuttals aren’t even correct

    You think Maths textbooks aren't correct?? 😂

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    I have said why this style of debate is bad in greater detail here: https://lemmy.world/post/39377635/21030374

    But to make a pointless effort to address your actual point, yes distribution exists, no it is not a step in PE(MD)(AS). Again, you have not understood my point because you categorically fail to engage with any argument. I don't think you even understand what it means to do so. I will not respond further to either thread.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

    I have said why this style of debate is bad in greater detail here: https://lemmy.world/post/39377635/21030374

    Which I debunked here

    no it is not a step in PE(MD)(AS)

    So... you're saying the "P" step in PEMDAS isn't a step in PEMDAS?? This is hilarious given you were just talking about contradictions 😂

    Again, you have not understood my point

    Maybe because saying the "P" step in PEMDAS isn't a step in PEMDAS makes no sense at all 😂

    you categorically fail to engage with any argument.

    No, I comprehensively debunked all of your points and deflections. 😂

    I don’t think you even understand what it means to do so

    says person who keeps avoiding the textbook screenshots and worked examples proving them wrong

    I will not respond further to either thread

    Yay! Don't let the door hit you on the way out 😂

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    Parentheses means evaluating the things inside the parentheses you nimrod

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago

    Parentheses means evaluating the things inside the parentheses you nimrod

    Only if you're still in Elementary school. How old are you anyway? Here's a high school Algebra book, you know, after students have been taught The Distributive Law...

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Treat a + b/c + d as a + b/(c + d) I can almost understand, I was guilty of doing that in school with multiplication, but auto-parenthesising the first part is really crazy take, imo

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (17 children)

    Because people never use that after they learn fractions,

    Yes they do, because not every division is a fraction

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (16 children)
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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (14 children)

    Take it up with Berkeley then.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (12 children)
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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    I cannot stress this enough. If you have a problem with that, contact the author or Berkeley, not me.

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  • [–] -2 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    I cannot stress this enough. If you have a problem with that, contact the author or Berkeley, not me

    I cannot stress this enough - look in Maths textbooks, not random University blogs 😂

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] -2 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    Tell them, not me

    You're the one commenting without reading Maths textbooks

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    You can stop humoring this broken robot. Especially when the context is 'yeah I already said this textbook is wrong, but I am better than you because you need to read this textbook.'

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    They seem to believe that and on the 8th day God made the one true objective order of operations that all humans use and agree on.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago* (2 children)

    Except for that time the definition of division changed 130 years ago. Which is not a rule! It's notation, or syntax, or possibly sometimes a rule. Whichever one lets them sneer hardest.

    I tried explaining RPN to them a year ago. They still insist there's parentheses in it. Today they called it an "app."

    Dogmatic patience vampire is still trying to bait me into further wasted effort.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Wowww. Insisting that they're good at math. I distinctly remember learning that RPN doesn't need parentheses in college.

    reverse Polish calculators do not need expressions to be parenthesized

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Polish_notation

    But, you know, anyone can edit Wikipedia. Someone probably put that there who hasn't opened a math textbook.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Oh of course. The sky isn't blue unless that's written in a maths textbook.

    And if you look up and see stars, it's still blue, because it's written in a maths textbook! Are you saying a teacher could be wrong?!, smug emoji, crying emoji, roll-eyes emoji?

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