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[+] 187 points 1 year ago* (63 children)
  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago (28 children)

    I think there is a distinction to be made between being a monopoly and doing anti-competitive behavior.

    Steam hasn't done any anti-competitive behavior that I am aware of, but they do have enough market power to be considered a monopoly. Consider how companies like EA and Activision tried to maintain competing platforms but caved because those platforms were not viable compared to Steam. That's monopoly power.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    theres basically one anti conpetitive measure they hold primarily, and its the one that states the listing price of a game must be the same on all platforms policy. stops devs from having a lower listing price on other platforms.

    other than that its usually other platforms shooting their selves.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    This “most favored nation” clause in contracts is huge! It means that even if another store takes half of Steam’s cut (say, 15% vs 30%), the game can’t be sold for less, meaning other rival stores can never compete on price. In other words, Steam drives up prices for games economy-wide. Amazon does something similar, and this was part of the basis the FTC’s antitrust lawsuit against them.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Say I sold a game for $10 on Steam and GameStoria. With the 30% you suggest I would take home $7 from Steam and $8.50 from GameStoria. I make more with a competitor who is willing to take less and of their instead wanted to charge more, Steam would be more profitable.. The consumer doesn't see anything but a $10 game.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Steam doesn't prevent anyone from selling their game at whatever price they want. They only prevent them from selling it through THEIR distribution platform at a lower price than it can be purchased directly from Steam. IE they cannot sell steam keys for less than the steam list price. If they want to distribute themselves they can.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    Failing to make a product that doesn't suck shit does not make a monopoly for your competitor.

    In fact, Steam is de facto not a monopoly because of the very existence of GOG. EA and Activision tried to break in to this arena but failed to provide a product that actually switched people off of steam, because they failed to provide a comparable experience to steam. GOG did, and they're doing fine.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    If they do anti-competitive behaviour then that would make them a monopoly.

    "Steam is so popular because they're good not because they're a monopoly"

    "Oh yeah? Well what if Steam was a monopoly? They would be a monopoly then right!"

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (10 children)

    By this logic Google isn’t a search monopoly because DuckDuckGo exists, despite Google buying default placement in Safari, Firefox, Chrome, etc to make sure no other search provider can compete, with their bribe to Apple alone totaling $20 billion a year to maintain their search dominance. What do you think monopoly power is if not that?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Can you describe where Steam has done anything even approaching that, ever?

    EA and Activision stores didn't fail because Steam bought them out and bullied them out of the market, they failed because they were trash products. Steam doesn't buy "default placement" in anything. They just have a good product that people want to use over alternatives.

    Point out a situation in which Steam has acted anti-competitive and I might agree that you have a point, but I can't think of any situations to call out here.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Um, there is more than one type of anticompetitive practice? Amazon uses predatory pricing to drive companies out of business, Microsoft uses tying to sell Teams, Google uses self-preferencing for their own services in search results, Facebook acquired Instagram rather than compete with them, etc.

    None of which are related to Steam nor has Steam done anything resembling any of these examples to my knowledge.

    One of Valve’s favorite anticompetitive cudgels is requiring “most favored nation” clauses in their contracts, prohibiting devs from selling for less on other storefronts (which Amazon also has used).

    Valve prohibits people from selling steam keys for less on other storefronts which I think is perfectly reasonable. You can list your game on Steam for $20 and distribute it on Itch for $5 or even free and Steam has zero problem with this, so long as you aren't distributing steam keys via that storefront. This is to try and prevent a developer from leveraging Steam for advertisement purposes but making all their actual sales off-platform.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Whether something is a monopoly or not is independent of anti-competitive practices. It's about market power.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    If there's a genuinely good product that's popular because it's good. There's no need to step in and give shittier products more share in the market.

    The point in breaking up monopolies is to be more fair for consumers. If you want to say they're technically a monopoly because they have a large share of the market then fine. But I don't see that as a bad thing until it starts abusing its power.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Videos games aren't like food or housing. If you want to buy a game you can look up all the different sites selling it and buy from which ever one you think is best.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    You're using a different definition of monopoly from what I'm using. To quote Wikipedia:

    In economics, a monopoly is a single seller. In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge overly high prices, which is associated with unfair price raises.

    I'm using the latter of those definitions. I don't think it's particularly useful to only consider it a monopoly when there are literally no competitors. I think it is useful to consider it a monopoly when it has dominant market power. Steam's estimated 75-80% market share is dominant market power.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    but they do have enough market power to be considered a monopoly

    Bullshit. Being the most popular platform does not automatically make a monopoly, this is armchair lawyer nonsense.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    It's true that I am not a lawyer, so feel free to not take what I say as what the law says. I think that the law certainly should consider Steam to be a monopoly with its level of market power, even if it doesn't currently.

    From what I have heard from actual lawyers, monopolies are not currently illegal under US law anyways. They're only illegal when combined with anticompetitive practices. That's my best understanding as a non-lawyer, anyways.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Seriously. Part of the reason they're even so popular is because they aren't actively pursuing profit maxxing/enshittification business practices to corner the market and consolidate market share like every other one of these blood sucking cretins. They really are one of the extremely short list of corporations that ACTUALLY win in the marketplace because their product really is just that good. Running the steam deck with Linux, contributing to the development of Wine/Proton, and telling Microsoft to kick rocks has made me a Gaben fanboy for life. If Steam was the ONLY way you could purchase PC games, I'd honestly be fine with that, as long as Valve remains a private company under the iron fist of Mister Newell.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Remaining a privately held company is really the only protection from enshittification. Not a guarantee, mind you.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Gabe Newell is a man with a red button on his desk that, if pressed, will immediately grant him 11 figures to distribute as he pleases. It's labeled "sell Valve to Microsoft/go public". Newell hasn't pressed the button. Newell and his employees are satisfied with "making shitloads of money" and don't need to "make more shitloads than last year, forever".

    I can reasonably say that Newell probably won't press that button during his lifetime. Similarly, I'd trust anyone with that button to hold onto it no matter what, because "if it's getting pressed, it should be me pressing it."

    Once Newell dies, many bets are off. That's a really, really tempting button to press. There are very few humans likely to not press it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Yep, exactly.

    They don't have a board of investors demanding LINE GO UP FASTER, the way that say, MSFT did, demanding their games division hit a 30% profit margin for the last 5 years, and then I guess being surprised that that level of short term thinking blew it all up.

    But, on the flip side... who the fuck knows what's gonna happen when Gabe either passes the torch or quits.

    Hooray capitalism, lol.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Well they are certainly the exception, not the rule. I'll take it, but we definitely got cosmically lucky to have steam exist in this timeline the way it does. 99/100 times it's a soulless shit factory that's entirely reflective of the AAA industry as a whole.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    Words don't matter. Do well and have a platform that most prefer? You're a monopoly. People don't realize that to be a monopoly you must be the only source and actively prevent access to or other sources of the same product. How many of those using the term monopoly regarding Steam have GOG Galaxy, Epic, Battle.net, and etc. installed on their machines, ya think.

    Being the best does not a monopoly make!

    Edit: Further, and speaking of Epic, I never heard of Steam paying devs to pull their games from other platforms for exclusivity deals.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Il Epic had free cloud saves and more social aspects they would be a much more appealing option, especially because they are much friendlier towards indie devs since they demand a much lower service fee. Steam is just the best for consumers right now

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (22 children)

    Steam does force the sellers on their platform to not give better discounts elsewhere. So basically if you see a game that’s 20% off on steam and it is ATL, you won’t find it 30% off anywhere else.

    Not necessarily a monopoly but definitely not allowing competitive pricing.

    Now that I think about it, it’s probably why Epic has to go with the “timed exclusive” approach instead of just giving you a bigger discount.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Not actually true. They only require price parity for steam keys. Basically don't sell steam copies anywhere cheaper than on steam. Any other copy you can sell for whatever price.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    But the key price is the same, they giving you a discount. They can't change the price of 100$ to 80$ without giving a 20% discount.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago* (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    They can set retail price to $1000 for all I care. As long as the actual sale price is $10 for instance is all that matters.

    It does matters because is how price parity works, promotions has a beginning and end date, it's not based on the lowest price at a time but in the consistency of the price.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Steam does require price parity, and the fact that Arc Raiders were cheaper at some point doesn't prove otherwise. Promotions and discounts are acceptable; the goal is for the price to be consistent.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Jesus Christ. You are ignoring the actual meaning of price parity and focusing on the meaning of the phrase "Basically don’t sell steam copies anywhere cheaper than on steam." which is correct for a basic summary of the policy.

    You ignoring real sales prices and just fixating on some imaginary price outcomes where sales prices aren’t cheaper.

    No you dumb fuck, I never say on this stupid thread that the sales price aren't cheaper, what you see to not understand is that SALES price is not what the Steam policy care, I said in my first response, they can change the price IF they give a discount.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Not true. I just checked the first game currently discounted I know on GOG's front page: Ghost Runner. It's at -75% (7.49€) on GOG but full price (29.99€) on Steam.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    They have a functional monopoly on game launchers, but it isn’t illegal to have a monopoly — it’s only illegal to use that monopoly for anti-competitive actions.

    A monopoly in law doesn’t mean total (100%) market control; it means having the power to control prices or exclude competition. Courts often refer to this as monopoly power.

    A monopoly could exist with as little as 50% of the market, or even lower. Steam has around 70–80%, which is easily enough to be considered a monopoly. However, you could argue that despite their large market share, they can’t truly control the market, since it’s their goodwill and consumer-friendly behavior that earned them that share in the first place — and if they ever tried to abuse it, people might go elsewhere.

    Personally, I don’t really believe that. Considering your entire library is tied to their platform, they could pull all kinds of shady tactics if they wanted to. But it’s an argument.

    As far as I’m concerned, Steam is the least evil of the major corporations. I can overlook the secret gambling ring and possible dark-money smuggling complicity because they seem to be a net benefit to consumers, and the harm mostly falls on those complicit in the scheme — as well as on China and Russia.

    Edit, fixed spelling.

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