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But THIS time, we'd get it right! (media.piefed.ca)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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Curious about how this goes but not masochistic enough to enable comment notifications...

Hope some enjoy!

But THIS time, we'd get it right!
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[–] 5 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

No, because it would form into a dominance hierarchy. It’s the iron law of oligarchy, and communism does not have any mechanisms to prevent its formation. Unless humans evolve beyond their own nature, “anarchocommunism” is not in the realm of possibility.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Oh you're right, I have total faith in the "iron law" created by someone who went on to join Italy's National Fascist Party

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    That would be a genetic fallacy if you are basing validity on origin instead of content. Would you prefer the social dominance theory? It’s broader in scale but still explains the inevitability of hierarchy and concentration of power.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Yes you know all your vocab words. These are just philosophical theories that have plenty of detractors. They aren't true just by virtue of their existence. And I think the political party of the source is relevant when it's a political theory. It says a lot about the conclusions that theory leads to, and when it leads to fascist Italy then clearly something went wrong

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    We aren’t talking normative philosophy or metaphysics. The iron law and SDT are based on observable phenomena supported by empirical evidence. I’m not going to accept an Agrippa trilemma argument where nothing can be proven absolutely true. I understand these concepts about hierarchy may be uncomfortable to one’s ideological fantasy, but it’s not productive to minimize these things because they are uncomfortable.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Just because I don't think those theories are true doesn't mean I think they couldn't be proven true. Anarchism is also a political theory based on observable phenomena supported by empirical evidence. It is very contradictory to the theories you bring up which means they can't all be true, even though they're all published theories. We could do a big experiment to figure it out though. We'd just need to first get to a communist society, then we can see if it can sustain itself or if hierarchies naturally dominate without outside influence. I'm willing to be proven wrong, are you?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Anarchism is not feasible on a large scale, most places in the world will tend towards hierarchy. There are certain necessary conditions for Anarchism to be sustainable long-term, such as the Zomia region in SE Asia due to geography. That’s assuming these tribes are non-hierarchical, I haven’t looked that far into it.

    stateless societies like "Zomia" have successfully repelled states using location, specific production methods, and cultural resistance to states.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asian_Massif#Zomia

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    So it's working, because of that area's natural resistance to outside influence. Sounds like our experiment is going to be very enlightening

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    C’est quoi cette niaiserie? The exception does not make the rule. If you can’t accept human tendency to form hierarchies, it leads to fatal errors if attempting to create an egalitarian society. Can the majority of people live in isolated, mountainous regions living under pre-agrarian civilization conditions? No. It’s only possible small-scale under specific conditions, and even that region is slowly transforming into hierarchical structures on the fringes because of cultural transmission with the outside world.

    Zomia is the biggest remaining area of earth whose inhabitants have not been completely absorbed by nation-states, although that time is coming to an end.

    https://www.zomiacollective.com/zomia

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    This feels like circular logic. There's an innate tendency that humans can't possibly avoid because stateless society is impossible on a large scale, and communism is impossible because of humanities fundamental need for hierarchies.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    That's the first time I've ever seen a "law" called an "iron law", which is kind of wild for a law of political science. Kinda like they had insufficient evidence and had to resort to PR instead, like "look, it's an iron law, you have to believe it".

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