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my face when someones f*ckass child is allowed to do things in public i would have gotten my ass beaten for
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[–] 64 points 1 year ago (73 children)
  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Doesn't help that people judge 2 year old parents when their child is crying. Not like they could hold a debate with someone who can not comprehend the concept of self control.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (11 children)

    People also don't get how different children are and how much neuro diversity is out there. Comments below say to remove the child from the venue or keep them at home. It's been years and I've hardly left the house for social enjoyment. My kid finally gets excited about going to the cinema, so we go,and he ends up having difficulty regulating himself there......I guess I better scoop him up and fuck off back to the cave we crawled out of.

    Managing children is difficult, and if a child is dedicated to their course of action, then you can't win. You can never win a battle of wills against a young child. A child has infinite energy, infinite time and a single minded focus. They've got nowhere else to be nothing better to do.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I was always told that I’d be more charitable about this kind of thing once I had kids.

    No idea where anyone got that idea. After becoming a parent I’m WAY more judgy about bad parenting.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is the unfortunate truth. If someone has "easier" children they become even more judgemental of "difficult" children. They take it as a skill issue as if their expert parenting was all that mattered and thus other parents are failures.

    If you had that "difficult" child with the set of social circumstances as that family, then you might have struggled too. Withhold that judgement. Most are trying their best. Sometimes you might even see me "doing nothing" about my out of control child.....but that's because I'm trying to regulate myself before I lose my shit; just need a moment.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    As one of those neurodivergent kids, my mom explicitly laid all the blame on me whenever she felt embarrassed in public. I was removed from activities countless times without any clear understanding of why - all I knew was I wasn't allowed to do fun things. There was no accommodation for sensory issues, no space provided for me to self-regulate, no understanding that I was having a difficult time and needed support - just labels thrown at me for "being difficult", as if by merely existing, I was a problem.

    Every child deserves to participate in enriching activities regardless of their neurotype. By removing neurodiverse kids (and not returning after they calm down) or outright keeping them away from such events, they may internalize the idea that who they are is not acceptable. Parents, there are resources available today that didn't exist in the 90s. There is no reason to raise your neurodiverse kid the way we used to be raised. If you don't know what to do with your kid and you haven't already done so, get help. Please.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    100%.

    We have a ND kid who has the standard AuDHD diagnosis, and we do our best to allow them to participate in activities, and they're getting a lot better at self regulation since we've been able to get them into therapy/OT/various other things that I did t get a chance to have when I was that young.

    It's hard, but just stopping and explaining things to kids goes so far, even if they can't internalize it in the moment, those lessons build up and give them the base they need to participate in a world that has no empathy for the ND.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago*

    My kid finally gets excited about going to the cinema, so we go,and he ends up having difficulty regulating himself there......I guess I better scoop him up and fuck off back to the cave we crawled out of.

    If they are doing something really disruptive like crying for extended periods of time just remove them from the setting for long enough to regulate themselves and go back in. Keeping them in a setting where they can't regulate themselves for extended periods of time is counterproductive. I stepped out into the hall with my klddo to get away from the loud noise and bright screen so she could get herself under control a lot of times, and eventually she figured out how to regulate herself in those same situations.

    Now if people are shitty because the kiddo is doing regular kid things or because they were disruptive for a short period of time then they can go eat a turd.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (47 children)

    I understand but also not my problem? If you are too tired to deal with your children maybe keep them at home. If you are going to bring a child to a public place you got to be prepare and willing to educate them. Your children are special bundles of joy for You, and you only. People are not ok in having to deal with an unhinged savage child because parenting is hard. People take the "it takes a village" wrong. Not everyone you see is on your village.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    You can look around and see that the world is not ok on you imposing your misbihaved child on everyone.

    I was once a child, correct, and I couldn't leave my table in a restaurant, that was not even a question. I had to learn to behave otherwise I would be grounded at home. My father left the table more than once in a restaurant to take my brother to be grounded in the car. And came back once it was understood.

    Limits are healthy and if it's tok hard you can always gibe them to social services or not fucking having them.

    Just look around a little. Nobody else cares about you baby or you.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You think the judgment is being leveled at the KIDS? No, no, no… nobody’s judging kids for acting out. They’re kids.

    Kids aren’t the problem. Bad parents are the problem.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I am a parent. My kid knows that some things aren’t okay to do in public and especially not in the direction of people who are trying to live their own lives. Teaching courtesy is not complicated.

    Your third paragraph, from beginning to end, is INSANE and you’re telling on yourself quite a bit there.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Thank you for representing a normal parent reaction here. I too think this user comes off unhinged. It also seems to me like they think all their parenting shortcomings are someone else's fault. If no one else's, those people silently suffering in the public spaces they share with their screaming kids.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (27 children)

    That's a lot of anger you're spitting just because someone doesn't want to hear screaming children. My siblings and I were never allowed to scream in public.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    What you don't understand (or pretend not to) is that you're the one being judged, not the kids. It seems obvious from this chain that your kids are out of control and you get judged for it. I can think of no other reason you'd act this way.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

    I think the point of contention is that the user you debate is under the (right) assumption that when a child cries in public, this is just a small snapshot out of all the time the parents took them to any public place. A child crying is not a bug, it's an inherent feature. They sometimes just do that, they don't even know themselves, so it's not the parents fault that their mini-human isn't behaving like a fucking Gucci bag. Everything volvoxvsmarla said is true, children learn through trial an error and yes, you need to sometimes take the brunt of this process, I'm sorry little one. When children don't learn how to behave in (for example) supermarkets because you banned them, then you get teenagers who didn't learn to behave. You can't pass the problem on forever. I'm a teacher and it really fucking shows when kids never learned how to exist in a public place.

    BTW., this is not an excuse for parents who evidently don't give a fuck or even worse, motivate their children to be brats so they entertain themselves. Scum of the earth. But it's perfectly possible for parents to try their hardest and still fail sometimes.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I can tell you a specific scenario I take issue with. At the grocery store the other day, a child screamed at the top of its lungs all over the store. The parent never seemed to notice or care, but people everywhere were looking at each other, all clearly bothered. I'm sorry but that's not my problem, that's their shit to work out and they clearly don't give a shit about others. Shitty parenting, 100% worthy of judgement.

    We don't have to assume that everyone bothered by kids at all hates kids or has no tolerance for their annoyances. OP did that, and took out what seems obvious to me as parental stress on users ITT. So I don't really have much capacity left to empathize with them in particular.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Yes this is the kind of excuse needed to give up trying and let the world bear the consequences. Thanks for your valuable input.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Neglectful parenting is worthy of judgement. What I take an issue with is that what you observed was a situation - it was a snapshot of a whole day, of a whole life that these people lead. Is the issue that they didn't care, that they didn't try to console the kid? How often did you, as an adult, get mad and calmed down after someone said "calm down"? Are you just bothered that they didn't remove the kid from the situation for your convenience, as well as for their own embarrassment asap? There can be so many reasons why the kid screamed (didn't get a piece of candy, didn't get to throw over cans of beans - which you wohld also not like, probably and understandably -, was told to calm down, had a fight with a sibling, hurt themselves, couldn't get a booger out), why the parents didn't care (did they not care, did you see them after they had already tried to calm the kid down, talk to them, walk them through everything, do they try not to give more attention to something that was already talked about, or, god forbid, might they just be absolutely exhausted after the 5th tantrum with no reason in a row), why they didn't leave (great idea to leave behind a full trolley with products for the workers to put back and go home with no groceries after having already spent time and energy to go to the store and have the shopping almost completed, also cool lesson for the kid that it can just yell long enough if they don't like being somewhere so that they can leave. Works great in schools and hospitals too). But you saw that and decided the kid is feral and the parents are awful human beings that should have no right to a kid.

    You both say that's not your problem and they have to work it out, yet you are absolutely making it your problem and demand they work it out in a way that you find suiting.

    I see so many people who think that if you are just loving and caring to a child and work them through their emotions and all they will be just reasoned to calm down. Man, this isn't even how it works for adults, with developed brains. You guys don't just expect too much of parents but also of kids. They cannot reason themselves out of these situations just as their arms are simply to short to wipe their own butts for the first three years.

    And you might think you only judge the parents and not the kids, but the kids do feel your disdain. They feel your lack of compassion, understanding, and companionship. They learn so fast that the world is full of people who don't like them. I'm not even going to start with the parents who are being judged no matter what they do. They are judged because their kid is their own person, that has a personality, and if that isn't a pleasant personality, well fuck them. And if their kid is pleasant, then they have been too controlling and demanding and were too strict and helicoptered them into obedience.

    If you, however, have friends or relatives that you know and see regularly and can make a more sophisticated guess on their parenting style, that might be another issue. Still a high horse to judge from, especially when you don't have kids, but at least you have more than one point in time to make assumptions from.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    You were not allowed to but I can guarantee that you were still screaming in public.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Hmm my mother says I was quiet and I observed normal amounts of fussiness from my other siblings that was far less than screaming at the top of their lungs. If they had done that, they would have been shushed, comforted, talked to, or taken somewhere else because my parents took responsibility for their own decisions and for what their children did. Instead of pretending it's hopeless and that whatever impulse we had was fine.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    My son was, too. I didn’t raise him strictly (I was a hippie mother, raised in the 70s), but gradually acclimatised him through smaller interactions (small groups to larger, to regional to public), because I had that luxury. Lots of parents over the past 10 years were deprived of that, and it’s been exceptionally difficult to get a child acclimatised to an increasingly hostile world.

    People have been far less patient in public – which is entirely understandable, given the circumstances – so many parents and other caregivers (teachers, counsellors, etc) who are trying their best can’t help but be defensive when they hear negativity towards children online, because I’d wager everyone encounters people who are excessively put out by the slightest transgression of a child in their proximity.

    It may not be the way the majority react, nor how you react, but it happens regularly enough to become exhausting.

    So, in these conversations, I feel like many people are responding to children who are clearly being publicly misparented, and then there are many parents who are thinking of the times someone overreacted to a social faux pas by their child.

    I feel like people are misdirecting their anger here.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I think you're dead on actually. The person I responded to is so defensive because they've probably been talked to about it before. No matter how awful it's been I never have done that. And if they realized that they as a parent are used to the annoyance, but others aren't, it actually takes restraint not to at least glare. So when that commenter got so pissed, I assume their child is poorly behaved enough for the parent to get told semi-often

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    Right, and if their child does only occasionally act out (as literally all children do at least a few times in their life), they might assume a commenter is that one guy who is overly put out over a minor social infraction, because just like you’re picturing the stand-out moments you’ve seen when it was bad, so are they. But their stand-out has been someone confronting you because your* eldest started stacking boxes in the aisle whilst you were tending to the baby for 30 seconds.

    We’re all thinking of our own extremes and are kinda talking past each other. It seems that, unlike some conversations lately, everyone is kinda right, but it also seems that we need more empathy towards the fact that raising young children has been more societally difficult lately, and kids need less hostility to become emotionally healthy adults.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Thing is, I've never shown any hostility and I don't see how agreeing with "it's not my problem though" suggests I do. However someone ranting starting with "fuck off" makes me think they suck as a parent.

    I show my empathy by putting up with kids everywhere I go. Parents can show their empathy by literally just not ignoring bad behavior. Which in other comments I clarified is the only thing I actually have issues with. The entire store should not be filled with shrill screams while the parent flat out ignores it for 10 minutes. Not too much to ask.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Right, you haven’t. That’s my point.

    You’re reacting to the worst parenting you’ve seen in public, but they’re thinking of the worst experiences they’ve had, too – which was people overreacting to relatively small transgressions.

    Everyone is talking about a completely different set of people than who they’re talking to. Both of those different sets of people are terrible: the parents who haven’t even tried to teach their children, and also the people who overreact when a child steps out of bounds. You are neither of these, and it looks like neither is your interlocutor.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    Every child screams in public at some point? That's normal development. You and I did too. They may just be excited.

    Of course if a child is screaming constantly then the parents need to intervene. But expecting children to be seen but not heard is unrealistic by any standard.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    Not really. There are kids louder than others. And while there may be some internal aspects to that a lot of that have to do with education. Specially as they grow and education starts becoming more a defining factor.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Society norms have to be bilateral, and convenient for every member of the society.

    One member of society cannot fuck around not expecting to, eventually, find out.

    This is why we have laws, norms and social customs. So we can live in a society.

    If members of society feel that they cannot longer live next to other members is when society breaks, and, you like it or not, the social pact gets broken.

    You cannot force members of a society to live en the minimum common suffering denominator. To lower everyone standards of living to the one provided by the most annoying member of the society. That's a highway to the society giving the big F to that member.

    It should be the contrary, society should try to live to the standard of the less annoyance. To avoid bother the most sensible member of the group.

    It's a everyone loses vs everyone wins situation. We should aim for the later.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Your children are special bundles of joy for You, and you only.

    Those snotrags are in charge of funding our retirements excuse me!

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    They're mad because you're right and they have to deal with screaming brats all day because they chose to and you didn't.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    exactly. They are mad because it's NOT about the kids. Kids will be kids and thats why they have PARENTS. the Parents are the fucking lazy people that are "too tired" but keep having children becuase "oh my god it takes a vilage" Fuck off go raise your child

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