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[–] 239 points 5 months ago (4 children)

The AI generated image is such an eye sore.

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  • [–] 61 points 5 months ago

    I was going to write something about Gordon Freeman and Resonance cascade failure. And then I saw that it was AI generated, and that explains a lot.

    At least they disclosed that it's ai.

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  • [–] 59 points 5 months ago*

    This news is two years old and is from the garbage pile that is timesofindia. It doesn't deserve to be posted in a tech community.

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  • [–] 39 points 5 months ago

    Isn't the Times of India not reputable? I seem to recall some shady shit from them, including I think Russian sponsored anti vaccine propaganda aimed at poor countries.

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  • [–] 26 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    This is not how it looks. It's also not a artifical sun.

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  • [–] 24 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    The power of the sun, in the palm of my hand.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago

    Tanning beds will never be the same...

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  • [–] 22 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Currently we still don't know whether it's possible to generate more power than you need to maintain the fusion.

    ITER is the European project that should test that. It still is an experimental reactor and won't generate power.

    Several other reactors are currently being built, but only recently they started building ones that in theory could run for a longer time than a few minutes.

    But nobody knows if it will be useful.

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  • [–] 16 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I’ve seen this headline in different ways for the last 20 years.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago

    Something will have to power the billionaires' sealed private luxury ecosystems.

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  • [+] 33 points 5 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] 16 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    Can't we get just one article that doesn't have comments about the U.S.? The article has nothing to do with the country.

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  • [+] -14 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    To be self-denominated as the "greatest country in the world" yeah, it Jas everything to do with the US of A.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    Really? I think we're reading different articles then bcz my understanding was that this article is about a Korean institution and their research into Fusion Energy.

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  • [–] -3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    And how the US is just guzzling oil and doing nothing about curving that, yeah, that's what it is.

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  • [–] 61 points 5 months ago (54 children)

    artificial sun

    You can just say fusion reactor

    This development by the Korea Institute of Fusion Energy (KFE) is another move towards achieving clean fusion energy, whose ability to generate unlimited amounts of electricity with little to no carbon emission is promising.

    The article, like so many others concerning nuclear technology, refused to address the unit cost of energy.

    Why is building a large, complex, and temperamental fusion engine more economical than churning out an equivalent number of wind turbines or solar panels? The article doesn't say

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  • [–] 101 points 5 months ago (12 children)

    For the same reason someone would have asked "why is building a large, complex and hard to produce solar panel more economical than churning out an equivalent number of coal plants?" decades ago.

    It's improving the tech, which could eventually far and away outpaced every other energy producer. Maybe not now, but in the future. Some are just gung-ho about trying to produce a bunch when they're not quite ready.

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  • [+] -19 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    why is building a large, complex and hard to produce solar panel

    Solar engines have historically been simple and easy to produce relative to coal and gas engines. We've had industrial solar heating technology since the 19th century, even. Sort of the joke of fossil fuel technology, in that it's been a consequence of heavy R&D investment and industrial build out as much by choice as by any engineering advantage.

    It’s improving the tech, which could eventually far and away outpaced every other energy producer.

    It's been a pop science empty promise for decades. We were talking about fusion technology in the 1960s like it was just around the corner. Yes, there's an enormous amount of output in fusion technology. But it requires even more energy input. What's more - as the article downplays but is forced to concede - it is highly unstable and difficult to sustain, even at a super-sized laboratory setting.

    This is a far cry from fission which can be achieved practically by accident (see the Chicago Pile-1) and is comparatively straightforward to control via mechanical methods.

    Even in the event you manage to produce something approaching stable fusion at the size-scale necessary for industrial deployment, there's still no reason to believe the technology would be cheaper per watt than the indirect capture of an already running supermassive fusion system (ie, the Sun). In that case, it wouldn't outpace every other energy producer for the same reason conventional nuclear power hasn't.

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  • [–] 28 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    There's a good reason why it's been talked about since the 60s but never happened:

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago

    IIRC that chart only shows US Government investment / spending. A lot of other countries, such as South Korea, are spending on this and even here in the United States large sums are being spent on it by Venture Capitalists.

    The "actual funding" line is wildly out of date since there's several Fusion Companies that have spent more than that each in the past few years.

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  • [+] -6 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    I mean, that's certainly some napkin math.

    But $3-9B is pretty cheap by modern corporate standards. Does this mean OpenAI will have a working fusion engine some time in the next ten years?

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    If they spent real money (not paper passing around deals between companies) over a decade and had tens of thousands of scientists and engineers and institutional knowledge and partnerships with academia in order to do it properly, yes they could.

    But we both know they don't have any of those things, so no practically they couldn't.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    If they devoted billions of dollars per year to it and nothing else, maybe.

    Keep in mind that OpenAI still hasn't made any profit, their entire valuation is based on hype that will be exploited to steal money via the ipo, and then the Altar will beg Trump for a bailout to prevent a bankruptcy.

    Altman and Musk both tried to get their companies into Nasdaq and the S&P 500

    They really pushed, because retirement funds are required to buy shares of the the entire index, and if any of the companies in that fund have sudden bankruptcy issues, the government is more likely to step in to save the company. Theoretically, this saves the retirement funds. It never has, but that's how saving the company is sold.

    Anyway the Indexes refused to change their rules so the bailout will have to come from bribing Trump.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I saw a talk from someone working in the field a few years back. The "fusion is only 10 years away" had a small proviso "if fully funded". The actual funding was barely enough to keep the lights on.

    That has now changed. It's gotten close enough that private investment has decided it's worth investing in. I believe the only really big problem left is the wall material. The neutron flux transmutes the elements making it up. This makes it difficult to maintain a hard vacuum, since the wall can start leaking and/or outgassing, forcing a shutdown to replace them. On a minor plus side, if you dope the walls with mercury, it transmutes to gold, in commercially viable amounts!

    Fusion has several advantages over fission. The biggest is the impossibility of a meltdown. The very difficulty in balancing the reactor means that it shuts down fast and mostly clean. This would let them be placed far closer to population centers. They could provide a base load supply, in the way nuclear could/should have.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    On a minor plus side, if you dope the walls with mercury, it transmutes to gold, in commercially viable amounts!

    There's literally a startup promising to exploit this. Although, how they're going to get a commercially visible fusion reactor started remains to be seen

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  • [–] 21 points 5 months ago (14 children)

    Technological progress.

    Need sun for solar, so won’t work well for space when you get further out, and no wind in space.

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  • [+] -9 points 5 months ago (12 children)
  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago* (11 children)

    Can it be used to power a turbine? Or just propulsion like a sail, because what if we want to go towards the sun…?

    It also has diminishing returns in relation to distance to the sun.

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  • [–] -4 points 5 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (9 children)

    In space…? Because that requires moving one part while the others stationary…. The friction from generating power would spin the rest of the satellite, or would need to expend power to resist it.

    Windmills have used sails as fins for long time lol, its nothing new, im trying to get you think critically here.

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  • [–] -4 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    In space…? Because that requires moving one part while the others stationary….

    Or moving one part opposite the direction of another, to create resistance.

    Windmills have used sails as fins for long time lol, its nothing new, im trying to get you think critically here.

    There's plenty of conversation to be had about efficiency, heat venting, gross productivity. But "you can't capture energy from another moving body" is something billards disproved several centuries ago.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    Just because you can capture it doesn’t mean it’s useful or beneficial.

    Not much science could be done with a constantly spinning satellite. And spinning stuff in space does some weird shit, we already know this.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Not much science could be done with a constantly spinning satellite

    Virtually all of science has been performed on a constantly spinning satellite.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    Does context just not exist to you?

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  • [+] 1 point 5 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (4 children)

    My god are you twelve? Using someone’s random Lemmy server address as an insult. I’m sure you know what people think of yours… but it makes no difference to here. Again the context eh?

    Fucking lol.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Using someone’s random Lemmy server address as an insult

    You're new here, aren't you?

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

    No, I just can’t believe people like you haven’t been banned off this place yet. You’re exhausting. And looking at your comment count, there’s no way you can be making any conversations in good faith.

    You’re just an absolutely pathetic troll, you make the other ones look decent.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (1 child)

    Do you understand how Federation even works?

    Christ. Go back to Reddit with this shit

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago*

    Yes I do, it’s frustrating that the mods of Lemmy.world do nothing and this crap bleeds everywhere. And the admins don’t care, since curtailing it would tank their statistics.

    You can only report the same user to individual comms so many times lol.

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  • [–] 27 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    You can just say fusion reactor

    The Times of India is a rag that literally accepts bribes for positive coverage; sensationalist garbage is their bread and butter.

    But it gets worse: this story is over two years out-of-date.

    The KSTAR Research Center at the Korea Institute of Fusion Energy (KFE) announced on the 20th that during the '2023 KSTAR Plasma Campaign' conducted from December of last year to February of this year [2024], it achieved a 48-second operation of ultra-high-temperature plasma at an ion temperature of 100 million degrees and a record 102-second operation in high-confinement mode (H-mode).

    This happened back in 2024. Here's a paper.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    (Not my field. The following is armchair speculation.)

    Why is [fusion] more economical than [solar/wind]

    TLDR — It’s not. For distributed/residential, bulk power generation, and light-duty transportation, solar has already won so decisively that fusion is not likely to catch up this century. But those aren’t usually the target applications.

    TMK, Fusion offers most of the known advantages of fission (smaller footprint, superior energy density + capacity, output that’s weather-independent and geography-agnostic, etc.) but with significantly better safety and waste profiles.

    Its versatility as a thermal source enables many industrial applications requiring temperatures difficult or impossible to achieve via electrification alone.

    The reaction itself is directly applicable to neutron production.

    There’s some even more far flung applications like outer planetary and deepspace space travel.

    And others. All to say, it’s for niche and future applications PV can’t touch.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago

    Its versatility as a thermal source enables many industrial applications requiring temperatures difficult or impossible to achieve via electrification alone.

    That's fair. I guess if you really need a spicy blowtorch...

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    It doesn't.

    Fusion isn't as bad as fission or fossil fuel. If they can get it to work. The reactor needs to run continuously (for days) and the energy output needs to be positive. Then it would have a huge impact.

    Every energy source as its drawbacks. I.e. Solar panels and wind have the recycling of compound materials issue - it's all glued together. And the environmental impact of source materials production, i.e. neodymium. Mining, refining,...

    Some are worse than others. But none is or will be impact free in terms of sustainability or environmental destruction.

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  • [+] -12 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    Fusion isn’t as bad as fission or fossil fuel.

    To date, terrestrial fusion has been a net-negative energy system. That's strictly worse than fission or fossil.

    Every energy source as its drawbacks. I.e. Solar panels and wind have the recycling of compound materials issue - it’s all glued together. And the environmental impact of source materials production, i.e. neodymium. Mining, refining,…

    Do you think we're getting terrestrial fusion without mining or materials compositing? What do you think fusion reactors and their attendant facilities are made out of?

    We're getting into reactionary FUD about wind turbines when we start waxing poetic about the environmental impact of big fan blades and dynamos (which are just as critical for coal and gas plants, btw). At some point, you're still just converting mechanical energy to electrical energy, no matter what system you're proposing. All of that will require industrial metals and conductors.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago*

    Fusion isn’t as bad as fission or fossil fuel. To date, terrestrial fusion has been a net-negative energy system. That's strictly worse than fission or fossil.

    My mistake. I did not specify in what regard. I had the waste in mind. Fusion waste is radioactive for a few decades. Fuel wise, there is an abundance of Deuterium, like a gram of it in every bucket of ocean water give or take. Tritium? That's the harder part.

    You are right. It doesn't work yet. And it will be too late to solve the current energy crisis. If they get it working at all. But I see no harm in trying.

    Your remaining statements: I did not intend to say that solar and wind power are bad, but they are not flawless (again: sustainability and sourcing).

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    Fusion reactors are in prototype experimental stage, of course they use more energy than the output for 102 seconds. Obviously, that's not the goal.

    Write a letter to ITER and tell all those PhDs they are stupid.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    A single solar panel is basically useless. You need a huge field of them per small city, and by the time you do have your huge fields of wind and solar, you then need giant grid batteries, and you still often fall short, which means that to be safe you need to double or triple your solar and wind build out.

    Which is why most solar and wind projects are backed up with methane burning generators.

    Nuclear on the other hand, takes up a tiny fraction of the space and outputs orders of magnitude more power, safer and cleaner than any other form of energy.

    South Korea doesn't have a lot of land mass for solar, they do however have competent engineers and scientists.

    Fun fact, most of the fearmongering around nuclear has been paid for by oil companies, starting with Hermann J. Muller working for the Rockefeller Foundation, to Robert O. Anderson, CEO of ARCO giving $200K to a man to start an anti-nuclear environmentalist organization called Friends of the Earth. The Rockefeller Foundation directly funded Greenpeace up until just a few years ago.

    As for Fusion, yeah, we can sustain a reaction by feeding energy in, and sometimes, we can observe more energy out than in, but we have absolutely zero ways to capture that energy.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Solar actually overtook nuclear as least-killy-per-gigawatt about a year (maybe even two, now) ago, although obviously killing people isn't the only bad thing a system of power generation can do.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    It's not hard to overtake nuclear when we're shutting nuclear down. Thankfully that trend is reversing, because if we had a full nuclear build out, we wouldn't really need anything else.

    Especially SMRs, those are quite amazing, well, amazing for something that just heats water to make steam to drive a turbine.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

    The obvious advantages would be less land use, great for smaller nations, and on demand power without the need to build back-up batteries.

    Plus those are the immediate benefits who knows what we could do with that level of power generation. Maybe we could even make better space craft if the technology advances enough

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    You still need to boil water and turn a turbine with fusion, don’t you? Not something that works well in a space craft. Could the plasma be used in propulsion directly somehow?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Because there's currently only one place that should theoretically be able to create one that works at scale to become energy positive, thanks to a novel way of making the electromagnets used to contain the plasma under enough pressure. As per usual, a beneficial reactor tech is still "five years out". We do keep inching closer though.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Yeah, fusion reactors are nothing new, as for why it's because they are not self sustaining and release less radiation, the problem with renewable energy is the availability and instability, that's why most countries don't allow more than a certain percentage of renewable energy into the grid.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Wind and solar can't get us free of CO2 yet.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    This is the problem, this idea of 100% carbon free or "whelp, might as well give up and burn coal".

    We will always need buffers to grids of solar and wind power, they point is we are reducing outputs significantly, aiming for a range the planet can deal with.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Funny for an ecologist to admit that you don't care about climate change if nuclear power is can be ended.

    For your interest, it's at least 20 years that renewables do absolutely nothing for CO2 emissions. Meanwhile nuclear power is carbon free since the 70's.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)

    "100 million degrees centigrade" sounds like they are trying to over compensate for the lack of a great leader like Kim Jong Un

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Seems like maybe they shouldn't sit and stand so damn close to it?

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    So... Probably just 10 or 15 years right....? Right .. ?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    So you can build unlimited data centers

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Let me guess, they gonna boil water with it

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Wow it's pretty cool that it can maintain magnetic confinement with that giant window cut out of the containment vessel.

    I'm not sure that lab coats and hard hats will protect against the x-ray black-body radiation though.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Man people on lemmy fucking hate technology, even if it has nothing to do with AI.

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