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[–] 43 points 5 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 26 points 5 months ago

    I hate to feel like this… but we are doomed.

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  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago (22 children)

    Jesus... OK so I get this has gone on for a long time. However, I feel with advances in tech and tools, 700 is probably way more than that used to get years ago before this better tools. Maybe they should stop when a limit is reached? 100 years ago there's no way it would've been as many.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (21 children)

    I think the answer lies in how sustainable is the population after modern culls, how humanely is it done and is all the meat eaten by locals.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago* (20 children)

    how humanely is it done

    You can't "humanely" murder a living, sentient being with emotions and the capacity to feel fear and pain who doesn't want to die. (Along with their family in the case of the Grind.)

    and is all the meat eaten by locals.

    You know, I've never seen "but your honor, I ate the entire body" used as a mitigating factor at a murder trial, but you do you, boo.

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  • [–] 19 points 5 months ago* (4 children)

    In this context "humanely" refers to killing them with as little suffering as possible, generally meaning to do so as quickly and painlessly as possible so the animal does not need to live in pain any longer than necessary before dying.

    It does seem strange to me to do this with whales, but I also eat meat, so I'm in no real place to judge.

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  • [+] -11 points 5 months ago* (3 children)

    any longer than necessary

    "Any longer than necessary" is literally any suffering in this context because it's wholly superfluous. Even on that note, if I walked outside today and were killed by a skilled marksman, I probably wouldn't feel a single thing; that's still not "humane" because it still didn't need to happen.

    but I also eat meat, so I’m in no real place to judge.

    No, I really think you are and that meat eaters resign themselves too quickly to this attitude to resolve the cognitive dissonance and avoid feeling hypocritical. I'm vegan and haven't used animal products for years, but I didn't drop everything one day. I thought "huh, you know, killing cows and pigs for no real reason seems kind of fucked up." This extended to chickens and then extended to fish as I increasingly realized I was using the same excuses. I look back and realize how hypocritical I was being at each stage, but it still made me work toward change.

    Never putting yourself in a place to judge is putting yourself in a place where you're perpetually stuck.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    No, I really think you are and that meat eaters resign themselves too quickly to this attitude to resolve the cognitive dissonance and avoid feeling hypocritical.

    Oh no, I recognize the hypocrisy, I just enjoy eating meat and I don't care enough to stop. I would be willing to switch to plant based alternatives that offer similar eating experiences at comparable pricing, but we aren't there yet, although I do like the beyond ground beef, it's just too expensive for me on a personal level.

    Basically, I'll stop when there are viable alternatives in taste, texture and price. Don't really care about the moral arguments tbh. I've accepted that in this aspect of life I am a bad person.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (13 children)

    So you are entirely unaware that a large part of organic evolution on this planet has proceeded by species predation. Or are you aware of it but are simply sliding the definition of words to a disgusting degree to make woke points. Let us be clear what you are saying, animal husbandry for meat production is in your mind correctly defined as murder. So a man murdering a child is equivalent in your view to a man eating a steak, you are so willing to make your self righteous claims that you would allow the severity of child murder to be diminished.

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  • [–] -5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (12 children)

    So you are entirely unaware that a large part of organic evolution on this planet has proceeded by species predation.

    A large part of organic evolution on this planet has proceeded by rape. Why do I care when considering human ethics? This appeal to nature is always flimsily brought out, and it's always obviously fallacious.

    Or are you aware of it but are simply sliding the definition of words to a disgusting degree to make woke points.

    Oops, you dropped the w-word; I'm sorry nobody here can take you seriously anymore, although the rest of your comment is just strawmanning garbage not worth addressing in the first place.


    Edit: I guess Lemmy doesn't find it even a little strange that they're siding with an ideology that power over others justifies cruelty and that opposition to that is "woke".

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    But you cannot answer it can you.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago* (10 children)

    What are you even talking about? The fact that you're calling it "woke" tells me that there's no productive conversation to be had with you. You're saying in obvious bad-faith that calling the intentional killing of a living, sentient being for pleasure "murder" is equating killing e.g. a cow with killing a human child, but that's obviously ridiculous; there are degrees of severity to morally wrong actions.

    You do this all the time; everyone does this all the time. If I see somebody kick a harmless dog, I'd call that "abuse"; you wouldn't come up and start lecturing me about how "woke" I'm being because I'm diminishing human victims of abuse who are brutally beaten, starved, etc. by their family members.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (9 children)

    I phrased my reply that way precisely because you are using emotive human terms incorrectly to illicit a response but you cannot see it. Animals mating without human formalised consent is not rape and culling or predating wild animals or humanely slaughtering livestock is not murder, at least not in the sense you are trying to force. They are human terms and not applicable, also why did it take you so long to tell us you are vegan and have much higher developed sensibilities than the rest of us.

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  • [–] -3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (8 children)

    also why did it take you so long to tell us you are vegan

    "How do you know someone's vegan? It'll come up organically and we'll still berate them for saying it anyway because the whole 'they'll tell you' thing was always a bad-faith thought-terminating cliché."

    I don't think I really care to be lectured about how to use language from someone who unironically throws around the word "woke".


    Edit: By the way, just curious about applying "emotive human terms" and where the boundaries are: why did dairy farmers and animal researchers call artificial insemination chutes "rape racks"? Where was their compunction then? Is it only problematic when terms like "rape" aren't used for "humorous" alliteration?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (5 children)

    They were wrong, like you are.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    No, it sounds to me like they just got embarrassed and stopped being honest about it.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    But your hearing and comprehension are demonstrably poor, probably because you are malnourished.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

    probably because you are malnourished.

    So you're just trying to pivot to nutrition as a smokescreen because you know you look bad. You can always tell someone hasn't touched nutritional literature in the last 20 years when they throw out rhetoric like this.

    I'm sorry that I'm not malnourished; I'm just over here enjoying my ~25% lowered risk of ischemic heart disease.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Still managed to work it in though didn't you, how many people that interact with you know you are vegan? Up around the 100 percent mark I would guess. Is that why you are vegan, to supplement your impoverished personality in the same way your unnatural diet needs to be supplemented. Be more powerful if your conviction was known only to you and you didn't use it for girl guide badges.

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  • [–] 16 points 5 months ago

    It's interesting to me that nowhere in the article and really nowhere in the comments does anyone raise the question of why do the Faroe Islanders do these hunts in the first place?

    Obviously people living close to the sea have always gotten large portions of their diet from seafood, so are they actually preserving and eating all of the whale/dolphin meat they are harvesting?

    If so then it doesn't seem to me like a question of should the hunt be banned, unless we also want to discuss banning all other forms of hunting and animal husbandry.
    It seems instead that we should be asking if they are doing it less humanely than other forms of hunting or animal husbandry, and if so what can be done to reduce the whales' suffering?

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago
    [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Compare Head-Smashed-In Buffalo Jump.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    But Faroe islands are not part of Britain?

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  • [+] -6 points 5 months ago (9 children)

    It's the same story every year. And it's a bunch of pearl clutching second grade journalism, if you ask me.

    These are animals that have lived free, beautiful lives in their natural habitats. Then they are killed and eaten, with no deliberate cruelty involved. Circle of life.

    If we want to reduce animal cruelty, look towards the massive scale of factory farming, not at the 700 animals that are hunted by a small indigenous community.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (6 children)

    If we want to reduce animal cruelty, look towards the massive scale of factory farming

    How about not rounding up hundreds of highly intelligent beings and their families to murder them for no reason. And don't give me your whataboutist bullshit about "muh factory farms"; I don't use those either. 9 times out of 10, the people I see citing factory farms in cases like this deliberately use factory farms all the time and simply want an excuse for inaction. Shit like this needs to end too and can trivially end.

    These are animals that have lived free, beautiful lives in their natural habitats.

    So are you, so come here. We'll just chase you into an alley, put a hook through your nose, and cut your spine; no deliberate cruelty involved (besides the deliberate, brutal, totally superfluous murder).

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago

    Wow that is one extremely aggressive response to what I thought was a relatively sensible comment. I'm sorry if I upset you.

    It's not whatsboutism, it's a question of scale. Attention is a finite resource, and I think you should place it where it matters most.

    There is a post-colonial dimension to Grindadráp that is rarely mentioned by the media. And that matters more to me personally than the lives of the whales.

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  • [+] -8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    How about not rounding up hundreds of highly intelligent beings and their families to murder them for no reason.

    If they're so intelligent, why do they let themselves be rounded up to be murdered year after year?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    1: the Brits there aren't exactly indigenous

    2: ranching is sustainable for the species, since we're also breeding / protecting them for food. Mass hunting isn't the same as we're not protecting or ensuring the reproduction of the whale population.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago

    Wow, there are a lot of pieces of fucking shit on this thread.

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  • 47 comments in c/world view that post
    [–] 73 points 5 months ago* (13 children)

    Before opening the article:

    "Well I eat meat so I don't really have the moral high ground here."

    “Every year, to the horror of the rest of the world, hundreds of whales and dolphins are chased into bays on the Faroe Islands and massacred in barbaric ways with metal hooks, which are driven into the stranded mammals’ blowholes before their spines are cut,” she said in a statement shared with The Independent.

    “The animals cry out in pain. Whole families are slaughtered, and some animals are seen swimming around in their family members’ blood for hours

    Yeah...fuck those people. Some cultures are just worse than others.

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  • [–] 16 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Agreed

    In principle I'm not against eating meat. It's what humans have done forever, it's what all hunters animals have done for billions of years

    If you're going to eat animals, though, first make sure the animals have a nice life on green pastures after which it's just lights out. Why the fuck do we torture these poor animals without limit before eating them? It's fucked up.

    Second: if you want to eat farm animals, that's one thing. Eating wild animals from highly strained ecosystems is just plain stupid.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago

    Just to be clear,

    Why the fuck do we torture these poor animals without limit before eating them?

    That's factory farming, not traditional whale hunting.

    Eating wild animals from highly strained ecosystems is just plain stupid.

    They've done this for centuries, this is not what is straining the ecosystem.

    I don't think it's ethical to eat meat, just wanted these things to be clear.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    Some cultures are just worse than others.

    Hmm, do you think "good cultures" should interfere with "bad cultures" and stop them from their barbaric practices, teaching them the enlightened ways of the good cultures?

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago* (3 children)

    Yes. Fuck the prime directive, it's monstrous and evil, and a way for non-interventionists to feel proud of themselves while washing their hands off problems they could easily solve, sanctimonious bastards that they are.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Fair - how much does this idea overlap with colonialism in your mind? Usually we refer to colonialism as intervention for the sake of extraction, but it was/is often motivated through intervention for the sake of morals.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    Colonialism isn't motivated by morals, colonialism is stealing other people's land for its resources (most of the time; and sometimes the people were the resources being stolen) or strategic importance, or because it's there, or because everyone else was doing it and not having colonies looked weak, or because it was a nigh uninhabitable far away place were you could dump any undesirables you wanted to forget about.

    Morals were merely an excuse or justification, never the real reason.

    More often than not colonialism didn't even consider the native cultures (or the natives themselves, except possibly as a nuisance or, unless they were the resource being stolen, and then they weren't considered as a culture or people, they were considered as product), they were irrelevant. Maybe some missionaries tried to teach them religion, so they could go to hell for their sins, and very occasionally some scholar categorised and described the cultural artifacts being stolen or destroyed, but that was never the driving force.

    When I say fuck the prime directive I'm not talking about colonialism. I'm not talking about destroying cultures, or stealing their lands. The Faroese wouldn't be any less Faroese if they couldn't torture whales. They'd still have the rest of their culture, their language, their history, and, unlike with colonialism, their land and their lives. The “harm” to them would be minimal, and the world a less cruel and monstrous place.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Thanks for the elaboration.

    What might be a practical way to do it? The Faroese currently have a colonial overlord, Denmark, should they send police or armed forces to stop the slaughter by force? Or should the international community try with sanctions first?

    Should we also intervene in e.g. cruel factory farming in other countries like the U.K. or France? Or at least stop the torturing of geese to make foie gras?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    Not if the bad cultures are indigenous and have been doing it for long enough. Nothing wrong with hunting endangered species if your culture is endangered.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    The primary species being hunted, pilot whales, according to the IUCN is least concern (the lowest rating) and they consider the hunts sustainable: https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/9250/50356171 The dolphin species aren’t endangered, either.

    If you object to this on the basis that they’re intelligent that’s fine, but I also hope you don’t eat pork, since pigs are also highly intelligent (and for factory farmed, they lived and died in far worse conditions).

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    Yeah...fuck those people. Some cultures are just worse than others.

    Factory farms are still way worse, because of the permanent confinement in cramped cages full of shit, the cruel treatment for their whole lives, and the insane scale. It's like this event happening every second.

    Just look at the Dominion documentary and compare it to this. We're the worse culture.

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  • [–] 21 points 5 months ago (29 children)

    WTF why are there children watching this?

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  • [–] 41 points 5 months ago (18 children)

    Because they’re going to be eating it later, and this is less fucked up than how factory farmed animals live and die. The whaling that occurs in the Faroe Islands is non commercial, unlike the whaling done by Japan, Norway, Iceland, and South Korea.

    If you eat meat you’re just paying someone else to do the same thing out of your sight 🤷‍♂️ Especially for something like pork, which similarly involves killing a highly intelligent animal. I didn’t grow up whaling, but I did grow up with family members who hunted and fished, and I think it was good for me to see in real terms where meat comes from and participate in processing it.

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  • [–] 17 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    One shit thing doesn't make other shit things less shittier.

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  • [–] 11 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    No but if you feel angry at this animal cruelty you can use that to fuel your change away from the cruelty you inflict on animals yourself

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

    You’re not going to like this but it’s okay to put more value on certain animals over others. Like, for instance, I value my cats more than any human stranger. If I had to choose who gets slaughtered, it’s going to be you not my cat. Just like I value my partner more than all of you combined.

    So you’re oversimplifying this shit thinking you’re proving a point, but really you’re just assuming people won’t tell you the real truth.

    People don’t value all animals the same. I feed my animals the factory scraps, too. 5000 chickens are worth less to me than one random cat let alone my own cat. That’s the way it works. So come up with a real argument.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    You're not going to like this but it's okay for people to want to make a difference. Some people actually give a shit about not causing unnecessary suffering and you not giving a shit doesn't mean that they aren't justified in trying to improve animal welfare.

    So you’re oversimplifying this shit thinking you’re proving a point, but really you’re just assuming people won’t tell you the real truth.

    Thinking for anyone/anything other than the things that personally affect you or the arbitrary things you happen to care about is called basic human empathy. But apparently to some people that's the fundamental weakness of western civilization.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago* (6 children)

    Personally I find dolphins, whales (and also primates, corvids and parrots) more intelligent, sentient even.

    That's why I'm particularly furious about their murder.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    That’s not incompatible with my statement

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    In my case it's incompatible. I don't feel the same about cattle, unfortunately. And I can't force myself to feel it.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Have you watched any footage of how cows and pigs are killed? I used to hold your opinion but seeing them struggle for their life against all odds lit a flame in me.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (2 children)

    I suspect it's cruel and awful and avoid watching it 😔
    I know I should become vegetarian

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Sure, feel free to go try to convince indigenous people to give up part of their way of life if that’s not ethically fraught to you. I’m not going to do it because if you care about animal suffering this isn’t even a drop in the ocean compared to factory farming. Effort is finite, I’m spending mine on the creatures living in factory farms, not the ocean.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    How about we just don't murder any animal or human? The Faroese can easily get by without killing thousands of whales they just do it because they can

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    ‘They’re just bad and evil and do it for no reason’ would get you failed in an ethnic studies class. If you want to stop it from happening you need to understand the cultural background and significance. Cultures do change, but using colonial influence to force change isn’t the way to do it.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    So you wouldnt try to stop a rape from happening if that was entrenched in a culture? Murder is bad and there are no reasons for animals to still get killed today.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    You’re making up hypotheticals like any of this is happening in a vacuum. Eating a whale isn’t raping a person (or even an animal as you yourself acknowledge when you call it murder), it’s part of survival for many indigenous peoples living on remote islands. Are you paying to replace all that lost protein, fat, and calories? Do you have any idea how expensive it is to ship it there? Unless you’re dedicating yourself to radically altering the foods available to the people living there, you have no right to criticize how they feed themselves.

    It is goofy to fixate on indigenous peoples engaging in sustainable hunts as long as factory farming exists, absolute waste of time. I can’t help but wonder if people freak out so hard about it because they feel like there’s a higher chance of coercing minorities.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    Probably because it's part of their culture. I personally don't agree with it, whales and other sea life should be protected, but I understand that it's important to include children in their culture. And also most of the world is very far removed from how meat gets to the table, people would probably be a bit more responsible about their consumption if they were involved in how the sausages get made.

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  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    This is just me questioning 'culture' : I saw a video of an Israeli child, not more than 7 years old in one of those chat platforms that matches people around the world for 5 minutes chat, and she was matched with an adult that greeted her and said he is Palestinian. The child immediately punched the camera. Is this culture? Is there a difference between the whale killing and this? I think maybe the concept of culture being this unchangeable thing that transcends humanity and empathy should be questioned, specially in how society is evolving ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Is this culture?

    Yeah, unfortunately it is. But there's a difference between traditions and ingrained cultural racism.

    Is there a difference between the whale killing and this?

    Is there a difference between continuation of traditional practices of food sourcing and culturally acceptable racism? Yes, definitely. Does that make culling whales morally acceptable? Of course not.

    I think maybe the concept of culture being this unchangeable thing that transcends humanity and empathy

    I never said that, though I can see how what I said could be perceived that way.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (5 children)

    but I understand that it's important to include children in their culture

    in that culture?

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Yes in that culture, preferably after stopping the cull.

    Some communities survive an entire year on a single whale hunt. Look, I understand why you're so incensed, it's horrific. But it's pretty privileged to judge other cultures by your personal standards and morals.

    For what it's worth, you seem to be completely ignoring the fact that I've been saying this whole time that it SHOULD BE STOPPED. But to say that without knowing if those whales may be the only main food source for an entire community is pretty ignorant.

    Check yourself. You can be disgusted and angry and disappointed with this and still understand that it may be a requirement for the survival of these people.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    it may be a requirement for the survival of these people.

    It's hard to believe in this, considering that it's Faroe Islands (Denmark), not some primitive tribals which have no other means to get food.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Faroese cuisine is generally dominated by the use of animal products, as only about 2% of the 1,393 km2 of land on the islands is at all suitable for arable crops.[28] As a result, during the winter months, the Faroe Islanders traditionally eat mostly salted or dried food, including mutton, fish, seabirds and the meat and blubber from sea mammals

    The really easy to find wiki article on the topic.

    The distance from the Faroe Islands to Denmark is approximately 1,356 kilometers (about 842 miles).

    So I imagine it is probably quite expensive to import food. They do, they import quite a lot but that's not a solution. You're being very ignorant....and frankly I'm done with this argument. Especially since I've been saying that I think it should be ended, and you're very clearly just arguing for the sake of arguing.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (1 child)

    Faroese cuisine is generally dominated by the use of animal products

    Yeah. And that's why they need to cull dolphins and whales once a year?

    It sounds more like a tradition than necessity.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Armed with MY opinion, I can rule the world!

    Well done you with the all seeing eye.

    Let's get Trump to invade the Faroes and install truth justice and the American way!

    Get McDonalds established quickly so they do not need to cull.

    I wonder if the islanders will be so exploited as American workers with minimal wage and the exploitative tipping culture?

    Over to you All Seeing Eye!

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  • [–] 15 points 5 months ago
    [–] 11 points 5 months ago
    [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    You can't call that hunting.

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