I like Librewolf
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These are all just chrome and firefox with extra steps.
They're not "run on Chromium" like apps run on Windows. They use Chromium as their integral part. Better analogy would be taking Windows, uninstalling some but not all pre-installed apps, adding a bunch of bells and whistles to it, and saying that you've made an OS that is an alternative to Windows.
Exactly. Calling Chromium-based browsers "Chrome with extra steps" might not be exactly accurate, but it conveys the truth of the matter pretty accurately
You linked a marketing page. It says "it's a layer", sure. They conveniently omitted that other "layers" they mention - UI and synchronization between devices - aren't even close to be comparable in complexity with engine.
Like that one guy in your school project, slacking off for a month, and then coming in hot with writing a page out of 30, and getting equal share of the credit.
Have you... read it?
The use of the word layer is very clearly intended to imply its one component of many.
Like if you crotchet your own steering wheel cover then is the car just a layer in your amazing unique transportation device?
ahem every linux distribution ahem
The majority are soft forks - compiling chromium with some flags, patches, presents, and add-ons.
Good analogy, what happens if Microsoft decided tomorrow that windows was no longer a profitable venture and stopped maintaining it?
Relying on Chrome and Firefox for alternatives to Chrome and Firefox is still an issue. Especially with Mozilla, if they folded the community would not have the resources to maintain Firefox.
When Google will discontinue Chromium as an opensource project (notice that I didn't say if), all those browsers will survive for half a year and then die due to lack of compliance and security updates. Chromium is incredibly complicated, web protocols are even more complicated, none of that is good, and people are rapidly losing the ability to maintain complicated projects due to LLM-induced mass psychoses.
The fact that the engine can in theory be forked now doesn't add much.
For you? Depend on your budget and how many people you employ.
I'm saying, both basically and extensively, that if you're using Chromium as your engine, you don't get to then turn around and tell that your product is a solution to a corporate world and you're the alternative of evil Google, or whatever the basic spiel of all this endless ad posts here.
Building an engine is complicated, forking and continuing Google product is more complicated, I get it. Chromium-based products can be good, and I bet most of them are better than Chrome (but then again, hitting your pinky toe at night when you go to pee is also better than Chrome, so low bar). But "the alternative to Google tyranny" they aren't. You need to at least fork the engine, support it independently, and substantially alter it, even to be considered one.
So again. My solution as a browser builder is to ask "how much money I have, and how much people I employ", and additionally, what's my actual point of doing it, what am I trying to achieve.
I kind of assumed you would reply with a lack of understanding of the resources it takes to maintain those engines and keep them complaint with web standards.
It's still a problem. I didnt say we had other options right now. But pretending it's not a problem isn't going to fix it. Do you really want to rely on those companies for your browser engines? Mozilla is at least an alternative to Google, but a tenuous one. And Microsoft taking over development of either of those isn't an improvement.
You forgot
- Harang people on the internet for talking about it.
I think 'we' as people who value controlling the software we view the world through should advocate and help fund more alternatives. And that starts by raising awareness. I don't think fighting with people who point out the issue is a constructive use of anyone's time.
itβs highly unlikely that they will just stop
It's like you never heard of Google and their practices.
Microsoft (for example) will take over
If that happen, they fail dramatically, because they already demonstrated how good are they at making a browser, so good they threw away everything the second chromium got on their horizon. And since maintaining other people's convoluted bullshit is more complicated than your own, their chances will be even lower.
Gecko would die the minute mozilla said they weren't going to maintain it.
No one is going to pick it up.
Pedantry isn't really an argument, its just pedandtry. Those engines rely almost entirely on the resources provided by Google and Mozilla's development of their broswers. Open source is all well and good, but those engines are not primarily maintained by the community, they're maintained by employees at Google and Mozilla.
how many of these alternatives are firefox forks and how many of them are chrome forks?
Do we still consider Pale Moon a Firefox fork?
Except duck, all the ones I know are Firefox forks.
Duck AFAIK is neither
Librewolf is the only answer
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf Where's @Vivaldi ?
In the trash where it belongs.
@the_riviera_kid @marc_eu I'm curious and suspicious. Why would Vivaldi be left out of this list, and why would someone call it trash? I'm using Vivaldi, and it seems like a very good choice to me.Not looking for a fight, but would like to know.
I'm guessing it was left off the list because it's not open source but honestly I was just making a joke.
Me personally: its chromium based, and doesn't it have an email client?
I wouldnt call it trash necessarily but... its not my thing.
@fizzle got ya. I don't use the email client, but I think they do have onevivaldi.com/features/mail/There's a lot of Chromium browsers listed here. I get that someone might choose Water/LibreFox instead. I don't get why Vivaldi would be left out of the options.
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf Waterfox, of course : No Mozilla A.I. bullshit but still account Sync through all my browsers. π
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf Why is Waterfox - a Firefox fork that removes telemetry tracking - less secure than Firefox itself?There's no rhyme or reason to the ordering of this list.
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf duckduckgo
Good old Firefox straight from their apt repo, that way I get security patches/bug fixes in a timely fashion without the need to be rebased/rebuild by a third party.
Thankfully they have added the AI switch which made me come back again.
( FYI: You have added the lemmy.world community of firefox not the official account on mastodon.social which is why its now showing up here https://lemmy.world/post/47155266 kinda cool that it works but also a bit confusing :) )
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf I've been using Firefox again for the past year. It is on all my platforms. And most importantly the Android version also supports uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger. Although, some websites will not behave properly.Most browsers I have tried out do way to much feature wise (looking at you, Vivaldi). This leads to having to expand too much time/energy configuring them. Because I just need basic features and don't want to speed hours turning everything off.
@Tutanota @firefox @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf Librewolf for desk computer. Waterfox for android
What is about Ladybird Browser? @Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf
I love PaleMoon, but can't really daily drive it. Mostly just use Waterfox and Firefox. Waterfox is fantastic and fixes pretty much every issue I've ever had with Firefox.
Do search engine browsers like DuckDuckGo or Ecosia have anything to offer? From my experience they're just Firefox but worse. Has anything changed recently?
Aren't most of those just chrome in a hooded jacket?
Most of them actually are Firefox in a hooded jacket.
@TutanotaLibrewolf and #IronFox for me.@firefox @duckduckgo@botsin.space @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf Yeah, Librewolf & Palemoon
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf Vivaldi !
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf Helium ?
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf european-alternatives.eu/altereuropean-alternatives.eu/alter
@Tutanota The freenetbrowser script sets up a dedicated profile for icecat, waterfox or firefox that uses Hyphanet as SOCKS5 proxy to ensure that no unsafe access can sneak through.github.com/hyphanet/browser/blWe should investigate adding librewolf and zenbrowser to the list of browsers to select as base for the profile but need to test first that the automated profile setup works for them.@firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @librewolf
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf @librewolf and @Vivaldi are my favorites.
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf please help me, is Brave not a feasible alternative?Loved Vanadium when using Graphene
I could swear Icecat went unmaintained like a decade ago, but after looking it up just now it seems like I hallucinated that.
You forgot to mention in your list GNU Icecat, though the logo is there. From the list I favour also LibreWolf and the Torproject, though some others are wonderful like Otter, Helium, Qutebrowser, surf or Nyxt.
@Tutanota @torproject @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @Freenet @librewolf Been using Duck Duck Go for years.
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf librewolf.net/The best alternative under Linux !
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo@botsin.space @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf Love Zen. Iβd also add @quicheindustries iOS and Kagiβs Orion browser is really nice. Been using that quite a bit recently.
@Tutanota @firefox @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf no veo Vivaldi.
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf Iβve used several of these, lots of good ones. Currently, Iβm using @Vivaldi and really like it.
@Tutanota @firefox @duckduckgo @puffin @Waterfox @ecosia @palemoon @zenbrowser @mullvadnet @torproject @Freenet @librewolf Vivaldi!
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