As an American who uses the 24-hour time, so many people use 12-hour I basically still use 12-hour.

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[–] 95 points 5 months ago (9 children)

Military grade is defined as the lowest quality required to be used by the military, often resulting in the cheapest product that is still suitable for military use.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Not quite. It's anything that meets the minimum for the military. This, for most normal items, means getting the job done and lasting long enough, with an emphasis on low cost and bulk production. The result is "military grade" usually being the absolute worst that still works.

    As someone that outdoors a lot, this shit is great for many items. If I base camp, all my water containers are military, and I have 120mm ammo boxes for food and stuff because animals, water, and air can't get in. Heavy and inconvenient as hell, but cheap af and works well—that's military crap for you.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    ...absolutely zero people that have been in the US military agree with your assessment. Doesn't matter the branch or MOS.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    That's not an assumption lol. Literally what 810 is.

    Shit to get the job done. If it didn't work for you, it did for 9 others, so it worked and the job was done.

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  • [–] -4 points 5 months ago

    Hahahaha.... no. It is the lowest quality highest expense piece of shit from a company that spent most of its money during the bid bribing those running the bid. Sorry not 'bribing,' simply giving gifts, dinners, and event invites.

    Every single Harbor Freight tool is the same quality, and in many cases come from the exact same production line, as tools sold to the military that have a 100x mark up. This isn't even a controversial fact. This is something every single service member that was a mechanic knows. The military pays $115 for a single hammer that will break exactly as fast as a $5 special. But the $115 hammer was made by a company that was made in Congressman Fuckwitzberg's district and paid off the board members reviewing their app more than other brands.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    I always saw it as "a ton of money is thrown at R-D on this one specific thing to make it do that ken specific thing really well"

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 5 months ago

    It is, but a lot of people think it high-quality. I believe the saying goes "an engineer isn't someone who can make something work, it's someone that can make something barely work." Idk, I'm going into welding, not my expertise.

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  • [–] 36 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    The US military also uses loads of metric things. "Real Americans" won't touch those, either. Apart from 9mm guns and ammo.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 58 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    I call it “computer time” because I’m tired of people I’m talking with thinking its something to do with the military.

    “UTC motherfucker! Do you speak it?!”

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  • [–] 28 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    When I was a civilian, everyone called it military time, because only the US military used it.

    When I joined the US military, they called it International Time, because the rest of the world used it and we were just meeting international standards so there's no confusion with our global allies.

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  • [–] 18 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    Its just called time.

    How many hours does it take the earth to spin? 24? Nah lets split it up into 2 12s because our people can't count higher.. And then lets make it have confusing AM PM tags depending on if its one or the other

    Like fuck off you gonna have the 60 mins of the hour also be split into 4 so you dont have to count that high??

    24h clock Is the norm

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  • [–] 18 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I've used it since I was 12 🤷

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  • [–] 11 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Something that's been growing on me, but that I'm still unsure of, is 24-hour time that goes beyond 24 to reference the next day. I was in Japan recently, and there were many restaurants that would write their opening hours as, for example, 18:00 - 25:30, to represent that they are open until 01:30 the next day. Was confusing at first, but makes maths easier and means that intervals of time never count backwards! From memory, OpenStreetMap use this system, too.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Japanese people that understand 24h notation‽ In my experience with language exchange I've always had the issue that language exchange partners didn't understand 24h notation at all!

    I also can't remember seeing this notation on opening times in my visits there, but maybe I haven't been paying close attention…

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    This comment is actually really interesting to me, because I was quite excited about all the 24hr time I saw over there, and remember 12hr being used pretty much only in text clearly intended for (english-speaking) foreigners. Not that I doubt your own experience at all, of course, but it did make me wonder where the difference comes from, and also if I'm just going crazy bc you seem to have more experience than I do. Couldn't find anything on regional differences from a cursory search, but FWIW, Wikipedia says that both are used pretty interchangeably, but does have a section on the specific phenomenon I'm talking about

    Times past midnight can also be counted past the 24 hour mark, usually when the associated activity spans across midnight. For example, bars or clubs may advertise as being open until "30時" (i.e. 6 am) (See ja:30時間制)

    Via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_and_time_notation_in_Japan

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    American consumers will buy anything. Why hasn't anyone developed a military clock for proud American households?

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  • [–] 19 points 5 months ago

    Don't forget the klick. Most of them are not buying that either.

    The people in all the countries that have no problem counting off another dozen past twelve don't always do that though. If you meet your friend at 15:00 most people will revert to "at 3" in their language. And they might "go to bed at 11." Economy of language and context clues. So colloquially the am/pm crowd and the 24h folks aren't far apart at all.

    And any person claiming that it's too difficult to add or subtract twelve from at maximum a low two-digit integer ought to have their passport revoked.

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I believe its roots have more to do with the railways than with the military. I have never called it military time to be honest.

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  • [–] 17 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    12-hour would only be somewhat decent if there wasn't noon/midnight confusion.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago* (7 children)

    If you see a working clock say 12:00 and it's sunny outside and you're not above a certain latitude: it's noon

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    What if someone tells you something is gonna happen at 12?

    For example: you can turn in your assignments until 12 tomorrow.

    That confusion could lead to you failing your assignment if they meant noon and you thought midnight.

    Time is not only for the present, it's for the past and future too. You can't look at the sky in the past/future.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    What if somebody says to meet at 12:30 AM? I would think that's an half hour past noon. Yet it often goes 11am -> 12pm -> 12:30pm -> 1pm. Absolute madness.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    I agree with you up to the :30 part. 12:00am vs pm is nonsensical and seems like it could go either way.

    But AM/PM means before noon/after noon, so 12:30 AM is unambiguously before the current day's noon, and 12:30 PM is definitely after the day's noon.

    For determining 12:00AM VS PM I use the law of lease surprise. Basically it would be weirder for 12:01AM to be proceeded by 12:00PM since it would make sense for AM/PM to flip with the hour. Is this scientifically rigorous? Should we need this much philosophy to determine the current time: no, Hence the only real solution is to 24 hour time

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Well since it goes like this 11:59am, noon 12:01pm and 11:59pm, midnight, 12:01am you have your am and pm figuring wrong.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    I find the 12-hour practical for daily life. But I put my phone on 24 hour time when I’m traveling and find that to be helpful.

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  • [+] 23 points 5 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 41 points 5 months ago

    In ancient times, people did not have the concept of a "civil day"; they viewed day and night as separate things which alternated.

    The Assyrians divided the day into six equal parts, and the night into six equal parts, called ush. But because sunrise and sunset move around over the course of the year, the lengths of day and night vary, and thus one ush during the day would not be the same length as an ush at night except around the equinoxes.

    The Babylonians divided ushes in two to make hours, because it was easier to do astronomy in 12s than 6es. This resulted in 12 hours in a day and 12 hours at night, but daytime hours were still different lengths to nighttime hours, and the lengths of hours still varied over the course of the year.

    The Greeks partially adopted the Babylonian system; they divided the day into 12 hours but the night was divided into four watches. The Romans copied the Greek system, but later went full Babylonian with 12 hours at night as well. (I feel like this coïncided with the rise of Christianity, but I have no evidence). The Romans introduced the concept of the civil day beginning at midnight (which the Chinese independently came up with), and over time, this led to the idea of 12 hours from midnight to noon, and 12 hours from noon to midnight. That idea postdates Rome, however; Roman hours were reckoned from sunrise to sunset and sunset to sunrise.

    Assyrian astronomical knowledge seems to have reached China via India, as traditional Chinese timekeeping divides the civil day into 12 shi. Ancient shi were like Assyrian ushes; they were either 1/6 of a day or 1/6 of a night. Originally, midnight and noon fell in the middle of a shi, but this was changed to shi starting at midnight to make administration and astronomy easier. This system of variable-length shi continued to be used in Japan until about the Meiji Restoration.

    Fixed-length hours are the result of analogue clocks, which are impractical to design to change the lengths of hours with the seasons (but not impossible; the wskusei clock is an ingenious Japanese clock from the 17th century that does exactly that). China had reliable, accurate water clocks by the Tang dynasty, while Europeans developed circular mechsnical clocks in the late Middle Ages. In neither case was it practical to make something as clever as the wakusei clock, so analogue clocks were marked the mean length of a shi or an hour as a reasonable approximation. Since there are 12 hours from midnight to noon and 12 from noon to midnight, that led to the 12-hour time system we know today.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    Am American, use 24 hour time. It's only called military time here.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    I'm American, but a software engineer, 24 hour clock for me! Totally understand I'm an outlier.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago

    I be taking naps on accident like once a week. I need to know if I'm waking up at 8am or 8pm

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    Only an American would think that the 24-hour clock has anything to do with the military in the first place.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    why are 24 hours military grade?

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  • [–] -5 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Psst, confused American, let me give you a secret: Nobody uses the 24-hour clock in speech, we.just write with that and call 13:00 "1 PM" or something like that in our local language.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    I wasn't confused before, but now I am. If you have to do the conversion to 12 hour to speak, what's the point?

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  • [–] -3 points 5 months ago

    I'm not american and I too prefer the 12 hour clock. 24 hour clock has never been intuitive for me. I always have to put in brain power to convert it in my head.

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