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[–] 18 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)

Could you please link the precise source?

When searching this, I found the figure doesn't match the numbers from IHME https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/malnutrition-death-rates?tab=table&tableSearch=France

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  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    The image is misinformation. It’s Niger on top with 25.2.

    France is actually at 2.7.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/malnutrition-death-rates

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    The small subtitle holds the important part:

    deaths by protein-energy

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    WTF is going on in France?

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  • I don't know but if i had to guess it would be what is happening in ancient colonies still attached to France, like i think Mayotte was or is going through a big supplies and water shortage. That or the number are somehow wrong (like calculated differently from country to country)

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  • 47 comments in c/memes@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 35 points 6 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 66 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)

    Be aware, very old people die from this as a secondary cause from a primary of Alzheimer's and other dementias. They just stop eating. It's a misleading statistic to use to identify poverty based malnutrition. It's a very common diagnosis in terminal patients. And the way US billing works, getting the most diagnosis codes recorded is important for reimbursement. It's likely the cause for this disparity.

    Edit: yeah 2015 is when ICD-10 adoption and cms billing changes went into play. And then the rate quadrupled. This is an artifact of the US's dumb private/public insurance model for end of life as more people gamed the system for reimbursement. The spread of billing practices over time.

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Why is France also an outlier?

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Ah, thanks. I figured that, like the US, it was some kind of other policy that had a side effect of artificially skewing the numbers.

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  • [–] 24 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago

    Vietnam undefeated

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago

    Yeah, but those are poor people, so 🤷‍♂️

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  • [–] [S] 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)

    I see that some people try to attribute this to older population and/or Alzheimer, but even by those metrics the countries above are pretty close and wouldn't justify such a big gap:

    As for the reliability of data, it's from a peer reviewed study by an American university. If they had a way to make the China data look worse, I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago*

    You wouldn't expect more (or less) primary causes if more secondary causes were reported in multifactorial deaths. I'd imagine the fact that in the US CMS adopted ICD-10 in 2015 and the rapid rise after would make that obvious enough. Unless you believe there's some pre-COVID etiology for malnutrition that explains the jump I'm not seeing.

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

    You’re mixing two population averages, so you need a weighted calculation.

    Let’s approximate first: France has about 67 million people out of roughly 447 million in the European Union, so ≈15% French and 85% non-French.

    We set up:

    Overall EU rate = weighted average 1.7=0.15⋅8+0.85⋅x

    Solve:

    1.7=1.2+0.85x 0.5=0.85x x≈0.59

    So, among non-French Europeans, the rate is roughly 0.6 per 100,000.

    That’s substantially lower than both the French rate (8) and the EU average (1.7), which makes sense given how high the French figure is relative to the rest. Also this is pretty much what I read for Vietnam in this chart.

    thanks France, for ruining our numbers!

    Edit: somewhere in this thread someone from France gives a perfectly good reason and connects the high starvation rate to assisted suicide. Which shines it's light on another problem but very well explains and justifies the "starvation rate" - making this graph/comparison even more absurd.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 6 months ago

    Dunno what you're trying to prove here, apart from "removing an outlier from the data makes the data closer to the average", which is pretty obvious.

    But you can clearly see that the graph shows Europe, not EU, so using your same calculation with the population of Europe, which is 745 million and excluding France, the result is 1.13.

    Also I don't see any indication that OurWorldInData is using an average of countries (which would be stupid). Considering their jobs are statistics, they probably know how to aggregate per population, aka a weighted average.

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  • [+] 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    "Data from authoritarian countries is less reliable"

    Uh-oh.

    Please tell me, which countries/peninsulae on the graph are authoritarian, and which are not.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Authoritarian (Bad Guys) ((Not white))

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Also being white is a weird definition. The Chinese, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese have a very white color of skin. Slavic people too have a white skin. But in both cases, they are not considered white.

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  • [–] 22 points 6 months ago

    Data from authoritarian countries is less reliable

    Part of the ideology of white-supremacy, is that proximity to whiteness means trustworthiness and authenticity, and distance from it means untrustworthiness.

    So white supremacists think only the western countries (and their allies like South Korea, Japan, and other US military base countries) data and educational institutions can be trusted, while the numbers coming from any country opposed to them must inherently be a lie.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Best anti-capitalist argument.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    When they counted, they counted hundreds of thousands! We didn't count therefore the number is zero, well done! The good and simple people of Starvation Land can sleep easy knowing that no one ever starves in Starvation Land

    /s

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (7 children)

    Isn't malnutrition also englobe stuff as too much food and bad food ? Pretty sure a big portion of thoses are fat Americans that kill themself with food

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Putting the blame on individuals is wrong. Obesity is a result of endless advertising and poor regulation due to capitalism.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (4 children)

    Yep exactly like tobaco, even more so with tobaco.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    So you think the main responsable isnt the ppl putting food in their mouth ? Or lighting a cig ?

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    No it's not. Evidently you have never had a popper addiction, I haven't either but at least I've actually talked and listened to people to have. You can't just decide to stop smoking or stop eating, it's hard. If you could why would people willingly become overweight?

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    i had. It s hard but the main responsable was me.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Oh interesting, I apologies. And I will change my opinion slightly, individuals do hold responsibility for their actions and they can make personal changes (wow I can't believe I wasn't saying that before). ALTHOUGH a persons views and personality are a result of there experiences. Highly alienated individuals who are bombarded with ads for junk food are more suceptibal to become addicted. So naturally that is why we see the US having higher levels of obesity. The government/rich people need to be blamed for this.

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  • [+] -10 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [+] -6 points 6 months ago

    So you consider France a communist country ? I dont get it

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  • [+] -9 points 6 months ago* (4 children)

    There is no information on how the data is collected. Perhaps China labels the deaths as heart failure or some other cause of death.

    And like the other comments states, these numbers needs to be weighted for population.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 6 months ago* (2 children)

    I don't have access to the source data since you need to register, but I would assume that OurWorldInData knows to aggregate Europe per population, and not just average the values per country. France is not the only outlier, there's also Norway and probably some others I haven't seen

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    That fucking makes me curious as I am a Norwegian and hunger and malnutrition is not visible. But 5 in 100000 in Norway with 5.6 million totalt population is 280 people. But it all depends how deaths are reported. In Norway the norm is old age homes, run by the local municipality and there has been discussion how the food served is not the best. And how the residents doesn't eat enough. Also you need more flavour to make food palatable for the elderly as you loose your sense of taste as you get older.

    How anyone can have infant malnutrition on Norway is beyond me. You have mandatory visita to health station at 1, 3, 6 and 12 months (and 2 and 3 years) with consultation from physician and nurses. They weigh and measure and vaccinate. We got state sponsored prescription for hypoallergenic baby formula, so actual malnutrition should be caught. But I know that some immigrant communities and "alternative medicine" doesn't trust the system so they might be the numbers.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago

    Ok, looked into the data and saw that there were practically zero until 2011 and a steady rise to 5/100000 annually for Norway. That is equal to 280 people a year.

    Looked at national newspapers and found that following numbers: Between 2017 and 2021 860 people had malnutrition and starvation as main cause of death. 3790 had starvation as one of several causes if death.

    These are all gearateic patients in hospital or assistes living. If you stop eating or drinking you will worsen existing conditions and also be more susceptible to new afflictions. Because of increased awareness to this in Norway, doctors writing cause of death has started registering more cases.

    As I said as long as the numbers is just presented and not quality assured and explained it's like discussing apples and pears. There is a problem with geariatric patients not starvation in Norway.

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