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[–] 8 points 6 months ago (5 children)

Graeber also liked to point out that Shia Islam is quite anarchistic and anti-state authority.

And also that markets divorced from state power lacked a lot of the coercive power they have in the modern Anglo-European unity of state and capital.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I whish that would still be the case today :<

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    How is Shia Islam anarchistic? It's basically Muslim Catholicism.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    A strong belief in separation of government from society, and traditionally opposed to unity of state and religion too.

    Islam as a whole, prior to Peak Colonialism (which obviously led to some serious cultural and social restructuring) Islam was big on society-religion being apart from government and power. Leave government alone and ignore it as much as you can to live well within society - Sharia as a social code for getting along, with more wiggle-room and freedom compared to medieval laws from governments or local elite.

    Debt , pp. 220-225 has a lot more of Graeber on the matter and we can both check the bibliography for more in depth reading.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    After reading some of the comments I thought of looking up if Graeber had actually said this quote. It looks like he did. In an interview in 2012: David Graeber: Beholden | Rebecca Solnit and David Graeber on anarchism as a problem-solving tool, the return of debtors' prisons, and why communism is ingrained in capitalism. The full paragraph goes like that:

    For example, the notion that anything that money touches, or that commerce touches, or that exchanges trade, is capitalism, and if you introduce any element of that into what might seem to be a non-capitalist situation, then suddenly that is part of capitalism. One of the things I discovered while writing this is that, to the contrary, markets and state power have always been deeply intertwined. And one of the facts that I discovered while researching, which I didn’t know at all before I started writing, is that free market ideology—does anyone know where it first comes from? It comes from medieval Islam, and specifically, Shari’a. Because Shari’a provided this commercial law that is independent from the state.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    Point being?

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Islam has mandatory wealth tax (zakat) that can only be given to the poor/needy. It also forbids neo-liberalization of commodities ie betting is not allowed, crypto is not allowed etc. anything that does not have a material being can not be sold or bought. Then there is stuff about forbidding interest on loan. Then stuff about poor people getting to paradise before rich which lead to early adopters donating almost all of their wealth.

    None of this feels free-market-capitalisty.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Zakat is probably the most progressive thing from within that system for its time, but note that banning interest doesn't automatically make it better in that regard — shariah-compliant options still need to manage risk and they do that by simply charging higher upfront (compared to interest options), amongst other means.

    Metaphysically, poor people have also had the religion weaponized against them by saying that they are poor because of their actions or those of their forefathers, etc, and that this is divine judgment. It was essentially used to justify the riches of the rich.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    i'd be surprised if graeber actually said this

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    islamophobia is cool again, i see

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I read this more as making fun of alt righters who are deeply islamophobic while also supporting free market ideology.

    Pretty much ever religion is full of bad stuff that should not be relevant today but if you said free market is christian then those idiots would use it to reinforce their believes.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    I think religious law is bad, whether it's islamic or jewish or christian or any other religion's. I don't criticize islam as much as other religions these days, because there's brutal islamophobia in the west, and where I live especially. But still, no gods, no masters, and that includes islam.

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  • [–] [S] 11 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Serious question. How is this islamophobic?

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago* (3 children)

    this is meant to be against capital, yes? since this an anarchy comm? and the argument it's making is that capitalism is a product of sharia law, yes? and sharia law is law as derived from the qu'ran, yes?

    so, the reason it's giving to be against capital is "it comes from islam", yes? at least that's the only way i can find to interpret this.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    It is meant to be against capital because it comes from the brutal medieval era. Thats at least my interpretation of it

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago

    the medieval period may have been brutal in europe, but next door, the islamic golden age was happening at that time, involving huge advances & development in medicine, mathematics, philosophy, art, etc between the 8th and 14th/15th centuries.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago

    If "islamophobia" meant simply being scared of and/or hostile toward Islam itself and not Muslims and/or Arabs in general, then you'd have a point here, but that isn't what's happening.

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