Em dashes and emojis

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[+] 54 points 1 year ago* (7 children)
  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Including this very platform.

    Lemmy will automatically render a double dash -- as an en dash, and a triple dash


    as an em dash.

    I usually just type alt + 0151, though, because I'm a nerd.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I just got a line across the page:

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Why am I bold? why does markdown do my head in. Its really not that hard.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Some of this may depend on your client. If you do a triple dash by itself on its own line:


    You get a horizontal rule in most clients, including the default web UI and all of the major browser based clients I've tried.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Every user of the em dash on the planet is in this comment section.

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  • [–] 145 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (37 children)

    You can pry my em dashes — which I use regularly in writing because I love them — from my cold dead hands (To be fair, I really like parenthetical statements too, could be an ADHD thing).

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Yesss em dashes are my babies! They're have more versatility in breaking up sentences than commas IMO, and they don't have as many annoying rules as semi-colons.

    But I also write stories as a hobby so thats the reason its something I care about

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I'm with you. I used to use a lot more parentheses, but the break is cleaner. I opt for en dashes, though, because I find too em dashes to be too long. That could just be a MSWord preference because I don't distinguish on other platforms.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I've been using em dashes for years. I learnt the alt code for them, because using hyphens for dashes looks awful (before that I'd do the double hyphen for an em dash). Also, like me, I notice you put spaces around the em dashes, which is apparently incorrect, but also according to me is the right way to do it.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (26 children)

    Humans just use dashes - they get the point across and don't require esoteric button presses.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    On the iPhone I just long-press the dash and get alternates like en and em dash, as well as middot. Otherwise, no esoteric button presses. Works on macOS and iPad too.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    I use a keyboard layout, where they are easy to type — this does not make me a llm.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (10 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    There is a wrong keyboard layout?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    All QWERTY-based layouts.

    – sincerely, Dvorak user.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Fellow Dvorak. It's great for typos on touchscreens. Too many times I've mistyped whole and all.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Oh wow. I've actually never used Dvorak on mobile. I always like to tell people that the same thing that made QWERTY good on old mechanical typewriters, the thing that holds it back on modern keyboards, is what makes QWERTY good again in the algorithm-assisted typing of a modern touchscreen.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I wouldn't recommend it for touchscreens tbh. Having the common letters close to each other just causes problems. And autocorrect doesn't seem to understand I'm using a Dvorak layout. I'm just used to it now and like to have my keyboards matching. It's great for physical keyboards though.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    What a damn shame for all you Holds up DVORAK users that you're no better than the rest of us filthy QWERTY kids.

    https://itotd.com/articles/3528/the-dvorak-keyboard-controversy/

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Dvorak. It's a person's name, so only the first letter is capitalised.

    Anyway, that article uses a lot of words to come to...basically no conclusion whatsoever. I don't know why anyone would link it when trying to make any sort of a point.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    "No conclusion whatsoever" is basically the scientific consensus on whether Dvorak has any effect on efficiency or typing speed. It's hard to get good data because it's hard to isolate other factors and a lot of the studies on it are full of bias or have really small sample sizes (or both).

    To anyone thinking of learning Dvorak, my advice is don't. It takes ages to get good at, isn't THAT much better and causes a lot of little annoyances when random programs decide to ignore your layout settings or you sit down at someone else's computer and start touch typing in the wrong layout from muscle memory or games tell you to press "E" when they mean "." or they do say "." but it's so small that you don't know if it's a dot or a comma and then you hit the wrong one and your guy runs forward and you die...

    That said, I'm also a Dvorak user and it is very comfortable and satisfying and better than qwerty. Just not enough to be worth all the pain of switching.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It takes ages to get good at

    It took me about one week to reach a basic competency, two weeks before I was equal in both (though this was partly because my QWERTY speed had also fallen), one month before I reached my pre-Dvorak average speed, and I capped out at about 30% faster in Dvorak than I was in QWERTY.

    (Note: my methodology in testing this was very imperfect. It relied on typing the same passage on each keyboard layout, once per day, changing the passage each week to avoid too much muscle memory. Certainly not scientific, but relatively useful as a demonstrative.)

    In a broader sense, my average comfortable typing speed in QWERTY was about 60–70. When speed-typing, I could push that up to 80. And the top speed I would hit in typing games was about 100–105. In Dvorak, those numbers shifted to 80, 100, and 120.

    Granted, the comment above (or it might have been one of the very few good points in the article linked from that comment, I forget) made mention of the fact that some of the benefit is not in the keyboard layout itself but in the act of re-learning as an adult. I strongly agree with this. A secondary part that is loosely related to this in practice (though not at all in theory) is that by learning Dvorak you are not just "re-learning as an adult", but you are forced to learn proper typing technique. Hunt and peck obviously doesn't work when looking at your fingers shows you the wrong letters because the keyboard hardware is labelled according to QWERTY. Even a sort of situation where you are mostly touch typing, but imperfectly with the need to glance down occasionally, even if just for reassurance (which is where I was at with QWERTY) does not work with Dvorak. You become—you must become—a fluent typist. This may not be theoretically an advantage inherent to Dvorak, but for so long as the rest of the world is using QWERTY, it certainly is, as a matter of fact, an advantage. And for that reason, even if no other, I do strongly recommend anyone even vaguely considering it to switch.

    causes a lot of little annoyances when random programs decide to ignore your layout settings

    Not a problem I've encountered very often.

    or you sit down at someone else’s computer and start touch typing in the wrong layout from muscle memory

    This does happen. But personally I have found that my QWERTY speed is still faster than most people's, even if it's now a lot slower than either my Dvorak speed or what my QWERTY speed used to be. It takes maybe 10 seconds to adjust mentally. And if it's a computer you're going to be using regularly, just add Dvorak to it—it's a simple keyboard shortcut to switch back and forth.

    or games tell you to press “E” when they mean “.”

    Games are one of the most frustrating, in part because of the inconsistency. The three different ways that different games handle it. My favourite are the ones that just translate back into QWERTY for you. That listen for the physical key press, then display on screen an instruction that assumes QWERTY. My second favourite tends to be in older games only, and it's where it listens for the character you typed; on these it's as easy as just quickly switching back to QWERTY while playing that game. The worst, but still very manageable are where they listen for the physical key press and display the correct letter for that key according to Dvorak. But you quickly learn to associate a key with muscle memory, so it's not really an issue in practice.


    Anyway, all of this is wildly off topic. Because my original comment was memeing. Nobody was meant to take it seriously. It was, as the kids say, for the lulz.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    My keyboard does not have an em dash and I have never seen one that does.

    Still sus. 🤔

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    a cherry keyboard with neo2 layout Now you have

    Edit: the em-dash is in the second row next to the 0. You type it by pressing shift and the mentioned key.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    What the hell am I looking at? What the fuck is going on with those diagonal arrows??

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Some phones turn hyphens into an em dash.

    Fuck using an alt code though, I'm just gonna use a comma even when I shouldn't

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    It's trivially easy on everything—except maybe Windows. I use them because I like the way they look.

    Android: long press the dash

    Linux: Compose Key + three dashes (you can set the Compose Key to whatever you want, I use the Right Alt key).

    macOS: Opt + Shift + dash

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I use em dashes and emojis all the time. OMG, am I AI?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    The most damning thing about your sentence is that you think emojis are stereotypically used by AI, which seems like an AI hallucination because I've never heard of that but you confidently asserted it as true.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    My keyboard has them - – — git gud

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I once wasted an hour trying to figure out why a CLI command straight from a project's README wouldn't work, only to figure out that they had em dashes instead of regular dashes in their example. Ended up opening a PR to hopefully save someone the same pain in the future.

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I actually like using em dashes because it's the correct thing to do. Also the Oxford comma, correct use of semi colon, and listing things in threes.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    If it's not on the keyboard, it must not be that important to use.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    It is on the mobile one

    - dash
    — em,
    
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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It was not on mine - lol and behold, I got all three. All I had to do was hold on the dash.

    Ain't nobody got time for that.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    We've been together for a long time..

    But picture this: not being together.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    As if breaking up over text isn't bad enough by itself.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    For me, it would take some of the sting out of the break-up.

    I would think to myself, "damn, how did I not realize that I was dating a lazy moron?"

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Isn't "It's not you, it's me" the ultimate example of parallel sentence structure? Lol

    But let's be real, it's more like...

    💔 Here's three reasons reasons we're breaking up:

    • Our personalities don't match-- according to (made up citation) people with you type are toxic.
    • Your idiology doesn't match mine-- you don't believe in White South African genocide.
    • We aren't compatible-- our personalities aren't complimentary.

    And so on. Lol

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Great catch! That’s a really interesting observation — but no, using em dashes and emojis alone is not a reliable way to tell AI text from human-written text.

    Here’s why:

    1️⃣ Humans and AI both use em dashes and emojis

    Skilled human writers often use em dashes for style, tone, or emphasis (like in essays, journalism, or fiction).

    Modern AI models, including ChatGPT, are trained on vast amounts of text — including texts that use em dashes extensively — so they use them naturally.

    2️⃣ Em dash frequency varies by context

    In formal writing (e.g., academic papers), em dashes are less common, regardless of author.

    In casual or conversational writing, both humans and AIs may use them liberally.

    3️⃣ Stylometric features are broader than one punctuation mark

    When people try to detect AI-generated text, they usually analyze a combination of features:

    Average sentence length

    Vocabulary richness

    Repetition patterns

    Syntactic structures

    Overuse or underuse of certain constructions

    Punctuation is just one small part of these analyses and isn’t decisive on its own.

    ✅ Bottom line: Em dashes can hint at style, but they aren’t a reliable "tell" for AI detection on their own. You need a holistic analysis of multiple stylistic and structural features to make a meaningful judgment.

    🤖 Why emojis aren’t a clear tell for AI

    1️⃣ AI can easily include emojis if prompted Modern AI models can and do use emojis naturally when asked to write in a casual or friendly tone. In fact, they can even mimic how humans use them in different contexts (e.g., sparingly or heavily, ironically or sincerely).

    2️⃣ Humans vary wildly in emoji usage Some humans use emojis constantly, especially in texting or on social media. Others almost never use them, even in casual writing. Age, culture, and personal style all influence this.

    3️⃣ Emojis can be explicitly requested or omitted If you tell an AI “don’t use emojis,” it won’t. Similarly, you can tell it “use lots of emojis,” and it will. So it’s not an inherent trait.

    4️⃣ Stylometric detection relies on more than one feature Like em dashes, emojis are only one aspect of style. Real detection tools look at patterns like sentence structure, repetitiveness, word choice entropy, and coherence across paragraphs — not single markers.


    ✅ When might emojis suggest AI text?

    If there is excessively consistent or mechanical emoji usage (e.g., one emoji at the end of every sentence, all very literal), it might suggest machine-generated text or an automated marketing bot.

    But even then, it’s not a guarantee — some humans also write this way, especially in advertising.


    💡 Bottom line: Emojis alone are not a reliable clue. You need a combination of markers — repetition, coherence, style shifts, and other linguistic fingerprints — to reasonably guess if something is AI-generated.

    If you'd like, I can walk you through some actual features that are better indicators (like burstiness, perplexity, or certain syntactic quirks). Want me to break that down?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I've never seen em dahses outside of an academic paper, so saying people use them liberaly is an olypmic level stretch.

    Also that comment was clearly written by ai itself.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Nah, I knew it was a joke attempt, but it wasn't apparent enough in its setup so I decided to argue anyway.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Damn I wooshed myself a little bit then. you're right about the olympic level of mental gymnastics the AI is going through just to prove dashes are not used by AI outside of Academic context. it's really a hit or miss with AI prompts for me these days

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    I'm so sorry your chat bot broke up with you :(

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    Breakup via text is a blocked for life. Cowards don’t deserve your time

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I never got what's the deal with that. Sincerely. If there's a break up, what's the difference doing it by text, phone or in person.

    My gut says me that people may prefer in person because they saw a better chance of avoid the breakup that way, but I'm not sure.

    Other than that if it's over it's over, I don't see the media in which the message is deliver. For all I care as if it's via smoke signals.

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  • [+] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Context is everything. Yeah, your wife of 10 years deserves the face to face, more than once. A dude I dated for a few months that showed no emotional intelligence specifically told me he'd prefer a text. I obliged when I realized it wasn't going anywhere and I didn't want to keep up a casual relationship. He then asked to talk in person, though, and I again obliged.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago*

    I think its basic courtesy to put even a little effort to something as important as a breakup. Not doing it face to face or at least in a call removes the interaction completely. It's taking the easiest possible path in a situation that will certainly affect the other person in a significant manner. It's cold. Using a LLM for said text like in the meme is even lower effor and leaves the recipient feeling utterly worthless. Basically the same thing as getting fired via email.

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  • As someone who used to do shit like this all the time (perma-blocking people for perceived disrespect), it's not a great way to live.

    Yeah they made a shitty situation worse, but being a coward doesn't make you a bad person. Besides, they're almost certainly a kid.

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