The worst and most stupid bit is this:

Speaking to crowds on Wednesday, vice president JD Vance said US allies are "suffering from this, frankly, more than we are."

He claimed this was because they had "focused on a lot of green energy scams and they're hurting a lot more than we are."

Vance continued:"As much as we've got to focus on getting these gas prices down, the reality is overseas they're feeling it far worse than we did because we've taken the steps to protect our energy economy.

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[–] 142 points 7 months ago (10 children)

Ironically investing in renewable energy and EVs is how Europe can increase its energy independence. It's not like they can pump that oil from their ground.

I imagine this war will speed up this conversion even more.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    This is what I've been saying as well. For ages now. However I was listening to pre election political debate with parties on TV and everybody just kept talking about oil, oil and oil. Nobody even mentioned alternatives or anything else at all. And we even have a prime minister coming straight from electric energy distributor. So I'm not putting too much fate here.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    One of the biggest advantages to EVs is that they can can get their power from anywhere. And even if the current power generation is from fossil fuels, as that changes so does the overall carbon "usage" of the vehicles.

    The difference is also striking when you just look at energy conversion from the fuel source in the vehicle. That EV is around 85% efficient overall at turning that electricity from the wall to movement. For a gas car, you're looking at between 12-30% of the energy in the fuel tank being converted.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    The main difference is that a modern battery has an energy density of about 0.7 MJ/kg or 700 kJ/kg, whereas gasoline has an energy density of about 45.7 MJ/kg. So, you need to pack in a lot more batteries to allow an electric car to go a meaningful distance. And, you're hauling around all that extra weight all the time, even when the batteries are nearly empty.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    The weight of the fuel tank is dwarfed by the weight of the engine, which can go from 100 (petrol kei car) to 300 (diesel) kg. The battery packs on modern EVs are still heavier, usually in the 200 - 400 kg range, but the difference isn't as stark as fuel density alone might suggest.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Apparently an average fuel tank can hold somewhere between 40 and 80 litres. So, that's up to (0.75 * 80 = 60) 60 kg of fuel, which can supply 2.74 GJ of energy. If you wanted 2.74 GJ of batteries in your car, it would weigh about 4000 kg. That's double the weight of an F150, or basically the weight of a F350, engine, fuel tank, wheels, etc. included.

    Now, of course, nobody puts that much battery capacity into a car or truck.

    The point is, it's not an apples to oranges comparison when you talk about the energy efficiency of an EV vs. a ICE car. ICE cars are inefficient, but carry around a very energy dense fuel source and can go hundreds, sometimes thousands of km without needing to stop. EVs have much more efficient engines, but have to drag around really heavy batteries that aren't very energy dense. Their range is very constrained because if you wanted to match the range of an ICE car you'd have to almost double the weight of the car in batteries alone.

    Personally, I like mass transit and bikes. But, if I had to own a car I'd get an electric one. Still, I know that the major drawback to electric cars is that battery energy density sucks compared to gasoline.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    The point is, it's not an apples to oranges comparison when you talk about the energy efficiency of an EV vs. a ICE car.

    Energy efficiency does matter because even if you are burning diesel to generate electricity, you can make power stations a lot more efficient than car engines. So shifting from ICE cars to EVs would reduce fuel use even in the absence of green electricity.

    ICE cars are inefficient, but carry around a very energy dense fuel source and can go hundreds, sometimes thousands of km without needing to stop. EVs have much more efficient engines, but have to drag around really heavy batteries that aren't very energy dense.

    This is true, but like I said, the difference isn't huge. An ICE car's fuel + engine would be in the 100 - 400kg range, while an EV's batteries + motor would be in the 200 - 500kg range. An additional 10% or so of weight is bad, but is outweighed by the at least fourfold increase in efficiency.

    60 kg of fuel, which can supply 2.74 GJ of energy

    'Contain', not 'can supply' 2.74 GJ of energy. At 20% efficiency, you'd need a 800kg battery to match.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    I was referring to what he said. He said that Europe has those problems because it prioritized renewable energy and EVs instead (what he implied) pumping oil (or that snake actually meant Europe getting its security by purchasing oil from Russia, which is the complete opposite of security)

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  • [–] 101 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    Why are they allies when spoken to and treated like this?

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  • [–] 21 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    This is a great question that I'm kinda raging about.

    I'm Australian. Our fuel prices have increased by almost 50%. Inflation for this year is projected to be 5%.

    This is a ridiculous, unnecessary war, serving the interests of a despot we have had no business in supporting.

    I imagine that our Prime Minister would say, we were USA allies for 100 years before Trump, and will be for 100 years after he's gone. It's true that our alliance runs deep. The current AUKUS agreement concerns building submarines in partnership over several decades.

    However, I'm peeved that our Prime Minister is tip toeing around avoiding saying anything mean about the pedo in chief. Trump has thrown us all under the bus for his own reasons, and absolutely deserves to be called out.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Believe it or not there was a time before Trump.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    And some day not too long from now, there will be a time after Trump. He has an insane amount of health conditions, and he's the least popular president in living memory right now.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago

    The question is if that will actually make a difference for the allies. They have shown how unstable they are, and that they are one bad president away from causing chaos for the whole fucking world. I'd hope there will have to be fundamental changes before that sentiment changes.

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  • [+] 176 points 7 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 44 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    What's worse is that people actually believe him.

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  • [–] 53 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    He missed his calling. He should be living in a trailer park with a yard full of weeds, broken toys and dog shit, a police record and a restraining order from his ex-wife.

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  • [–] 44 points 7 months ago* (7 children)

    Other aspects are already addressed in the comments, but this:

    He claimed this was because they had “focused on a lot of green energy scams and they’re hurting a lot more than we are.”

    It doesn't even make sense: US attacking Iran affects fossil fuel delivery; countries that focus more on green energies are more resilient to such crises, not less.

    In my EU country fuel prices rose noticeably ~12%. How much in the USA?

    And if JD refers to Germany's over-reliance in Russian gas (which isn't very green anyhow): That's the pot calling the kettle black. The US have already lifted sanctions on Russian oil amid this war.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    But isn't lifting sanctions on Iranian oil actually the smart thing to do? Get all the oil to market, to ameliorate the supply shock. Even though it looks horrible from a PR angle.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Does lifting sanctions on a country that you're at war with the smart thing to do? Literally helps to fund their enemy.

    Also:

    Energy analysts, including Brent Erickson, a managing principal at Obsidian Risk Advisors, have said the administration’s efforts to control prices would not have a meaningful impact until the strait is opened to vessels.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Does lifting sanctions on a country that you’re at war with the smart thing to do? Literally helps to fund their enemy.

    It is not a zero sum game. Letting the oil through, and thereby preventing the world market from a total tail spin, probably helps the US more than it helps Iran. So is on the surface surprising, but surprisingly rational on second look.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Its not enough to make a meaningful differece. Pulling all the levers still cant close the huge gap of the blocked straigt.

    The problem is that no matter how many of these strategic levers governments pull, they just can't replace the amount of oil that's stuck waiting to move through the strait.

    "Fifteen million barrels a day isn't easy to offset anywhere," says Dan Pickering, the chief investment officer with Pickering Energy Partners. "That's the total production in the United States, and we're the biggest producer in the world. There is no easy fix."

    Starting the war was a colossal fuck up that they cant fix except by ending it.

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  • [–] 81 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (12 children)

    For anyone who doesn’t know, the US is the largest oil producer in the world, more than double any other country. So that’s the reason prices aren’t going up as much as they may be elsewhere, but also what that means is that when we attack Iran us oil company stocks skyrocket. People pay more, billionaires reap, hedge funds reap, the military industrial complex reaps. War as a service.

    https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/War_economy

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Oil prices are pretty global. If you look at the prices for European oil (Brent crude) and US oil (West Texas Intermediate), then they are $14 apart. Which is not nothing, but WTI is still up by 63% from pre-war. That is still going to hurt the US economy, a lot.

    Also, in the US the oil price windfall is privatized, while the oil price pain is socialized. So the US will still feel almost the full pain.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    There is some fuckery in US price. Asia is $60/bbl higher. Rumors of US export controls seemed contradicted by WH on Friday, and somehow prices went down in US by $1. Possibility of US treasury heavily shorting US futures (in secret or with secret financial allies) to manipulate price. With no export controls, US price should be $4 lower than Brent, and $8-$10 lower than Asia.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Asia is $60/bbl higher.

    Asia get their oil through the Hormuz straight. Of course their oil price is higher.

    There probably isn't oil tankers enough in the world to equalize the supply between the US and Asia. Hence you should not expect the price to be perfectly equalized between the US and Asia.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    when I said that $10 is a normal limit for Asia premium, it is based on the shipping cost ($10) to get WTI to Asia. Brent crude premium is also high. That there may not be enough shipping capacity to pick up from US, while theoretically possible, the spread is so incredibly profitable that it shouldn't be $50 higher than normal profit, without every ship in the world lined up to make that profit.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    You surely need a lot of oil tankers to sail oil across the Pacific Ocean - because each voyage takes so long. And there needs to be export oil terminals in the US towards Asia, which I assume there isn't currently, because Asia was supplied by the Middle East.

    So a priory doesn't seem too surprising to me, that there is a price spread.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    You surely need a lot of oil tankers to sail oil across the Pacific Ocean - because each voyage takes so long.

    That is why the fair premium used to be $8 for asia (now $10) vs $4 for Europe. The entirety of the premium is to pay the shipping from one spot to the other.

    And there needs to be export oil terminals in the US towards Asia

    Everything is in TX and LA. There is not special Asian only valves or anything for shipping, and US has sold plenty of oil and LNG to Asia before.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Let's not forget all the Venezuelan oil that the execs said was to expensive to drill, higher price might just make it lucrative.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    We have tons of untapped oil fields easier to drill in the US that oil companies are sitting on, and we already get something like 1/3 of Venezuelan oil as is

    But we still need the oil from the middle east, we mix our heavier oil with theirs in the refining process. We're draining our reserves to keep the price low domestically, that and the statements that the strait will be reopened imminently is keeping the price relatively low... For now. Our economy is all speculation after all.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    We have tons of untapped oil fields

    But that is likely irrelevant for the timescale of this conflict, right? Surely the lead time for bringing new oil fields online is measured in years.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Nah, like a couple weeks. They ship in a team along with the equipment and then they go to town

    Something like deep water rigs can take years to build, but actually tapping a well is pretty quick. But then you can't just seal it back up - or at least humanity has never bothered to learn how to do so. So companies will sit on them for years to keep production steady, if the cost of oil falls they might move it to a sacrificial shell company and leave it leaking for tax payers to eventually clean up

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    However, for the corporations that have to use oil instead of sell it, profits get eaten up by oil price rises. So this isn't a simple benefit for billionaires. Some of them must be absolutely furious at Trump right now.

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  • [–] 39 points 7 months ago

    Yep, give loser MAGA some hope that they’re not the bottom of the barrel they really are.

    This all just plays into the kind of people they are. “You’re suffering, but look at how much worse that poor asshole over there is suffering. Don’t you feel great!?”

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  • [–] 38 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I cannot even begin to parse how he thought any of those words were a good idea, let alone in that order.

    This is genuinely one of the dumbest things I have ever heard a human being say. Not only is it ludicrously, hilariously wrong, but even if it wasn't, why would that be a good thing? Why would you want to proudly declare how much you fucked over your allies?! Does he know what the word "ally" means? Do any of them know?

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  • [–] 38 points 7 months ago
    [–] 29 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    What does it help him when others suffer more? So USA is still suffering, but less? Great for them... 

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  • [–] 30 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    That's the Republican's whole shtick "Vote for us, we'll make those people you don't like hurt worse than we make you hurt"

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    That's religions ultimate schtick: Suffering with the reward after you die. Enough zealots and fanatics and you can commit the worst atrocities the world has ever seen.

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    In Spain, for example, electricity prices remain low thanks to renewable energy. This guy is stupid.

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  • [–] 26 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    He so perfectly embodies the fascist ethos. You aren’t suffering, as long as others are suffering more.

    I can’t tell if he’s incredibly un-American, or very very American.

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  • [–] 26 points 7 months ago

    That's what allies usually look for, suffering.

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    This war is probably the most effective way to promote green energy. Similar to how Windows fucking up is the best way to promote Linux. People have to suffer before attempting different solutions 💀

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    It truly should be a learning experience. But I genuinely don't think Republicans in the US are capable of learning anything, especially not something as narratively inconvenient as this.

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Our infrastructure isn't completely built around cars. We have proper public transportation, walking and cycling infrastructure. The best in the world actually. I don't need gas or oil to cycle. And my electricity is made by windmills and solar panels.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I don’t need gas or oil to cycle.

    Well, technically, it really helps to have a teensy bit to lubricate your bicycle's bearings. But that's all.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    lol I’d love to hear them explain this green scam stuff

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    My father ran me through it one day. It involves Al Gore proposal to sell carbon tax credits.

    I think this was such a repellent thought to oil companies that they scorched the very thoughts around it.

    Too bad about that election.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    "We created an unnecessary serious problem, but it causes more grief for you than for us! So why don't you come help us fix it (at our direction of course)."

    Gee, can't guess why that might get some allies p.o.'d....

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  • [–] 35 points 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Wait, so the person who aligned himself with an obese orange painted child rapist and narcissistic pathological liar doesn't know what he's talking about? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

    I think I'm immediately going to go outside and smash up my solar panels, my battery system, and my heatpump. No, scratch that, I'll drive my electric car over everything.
    Then I'll go and import a massive Ford F1CUNT mobile and roll moles!!

    Or not. It's a tricky one...

    I mean, yesterday we ran our entire house for free, charged the car for free, and exported a few quid of electricity back in to the grid...but, yes, oil and gas is definitely better for me and the climate.
    Yes, I know not everyone can't do what we've done but the quicker everyone can get away from fossil fuels the better.

    So FUCK OFF, COUCH FUCKING PAEDO ENABLER!
    I hope you americans will hold this prick to account once the kiddie fiddling nonce finally dies.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago

    "allies" are more likely to have renewable power sources than the US...and functional, widespread public transport systems

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  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I'm pretty sure he thinks allies of the US are beta males that follow the US alpha male...

    Stupid toxic masculinity and their constant attempts to cover up their weakness and insecurities by pretending they are 'real men'. And 'real men' don't have empathy. So they behave like self serving pricks.

    Why do people vote baby brained bullies into positions of power?

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    I’m pretty sure he thinks allies of the US are beta males that follow the US alpha male…

    Vance said Trump was "America's Hitler". Before Vance realized that he could get power by supporting Trump.

    You seem to be using "he thinks" in the sense "Vance genuinely believes". I am not convinced Vance believes anything, his actions look like pure opportunism.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    No conservatives believe anything. They say and do whatever helps them in that moment and in the next moment they'll say and do the opposite as long as it helps them. They're animalistic, idiots who only react to things. There's no long term thinking, there's no layered thinking it's just "you think this is bad, so I'm going to say it's good"

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (1 child)
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