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When the Linux user hears an iOS user say they hate Windows (i.redd.it)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] 81 points 7 months ago (7 children)

IOS users hate Windows. Linux users hate Microsoft.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I don't hate Microsoft, I hate nonfree software. I happily use free software developed by Microsoft, eg VSCodium.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I even avoid that, because of their EEE past. Also because if I'm going to run something as heavy as VSCodium, I might as well run Jetbrains IDEs which I personally find more ergonomic. Nonfree software, sure, but I like them as a company generally.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I switched to Linux because I hate Windows. I also dislike Microsoft, but I would have tolerated them like I tolerate my health insurance company if they didn't make the UX increasingly terrible.

    I could have installed iOS but Linux is more reliable for gaming afaik, and iOS may start enshittifying at any moment.

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    • [–] 130 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Me being an iOS user and Linux user be like

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  • [–] 32 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    When I can finally get a Motorola Graphene phones, iOS is gone.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Idk if it’s going to be signed then. If it is and graphene passes at least some layers of the BS Play Integrity API, then it would be perfect

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    But I mean, really, it's all in what software you use. I used iOS with Linux for a while with KDE and KDE Connect along with Tailscale to connect the two with amazing results. Its not all bad. I like Android + Linux better, but iOS + Linux is definitely doable, at least it's not iOS + Windows.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    See, I like iOS because it integrates with my work laptop of a MacBook Pro. I don’t need to fiddle with my phone anymore and all texts just come through my laptop.

    But also, I like tinkering/programming stuff on my time. iOS just works for the most part.

    But it would be nice to not be giving money to corpo tech.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    I’m an iOS user too. I’d switch the day there’s a nice little Android smartphone that’s compatible with a Google-free OS (and by β€œlittle,” I mean under 5.8 inches, I don’t have giant hands).

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    [–] 49 points 7 months ago (15 children)

    Apple users are the OG Windows haters.

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    More like the OG "shiny is better" users

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    All those shiny Apple 2’s, Macintoshs, Quadra’s, LC’s etc. super shiny beige plastic

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (5 children)

    BSD was the OG windows haters. Apple was the OG ,"Let's license hardware/software and call it our own".

    remember where Darwin comes from.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    Apple has had operating systems long before OSX in 2001.

    Apple is just a few years younger than Unix

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  • [+] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yea β€˜68 for Unix, β€˜75 for MS, β€˜76 for Apple.

    But really it’s ~’80 for both really getting started

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Microsoft was '81 for acquiring DOS (and that's technically a lie, they didn't have the source code for several years later. but it's how they convinced IBM)

    both MS and Apple were living BASIC at this time. Basic is not a operating system, it's a pre-compiler environment. it's designed to let you run code directly without machine code. as assembler and C was not a thing or rather licensed yet.

    BSD specifically Netbsd exists as they were part of the invention of C code. BSD was ported from assembler/machine code to be portable with C.

    MSdos, which Microsoft acquired by buying Qdos (aka 86dos), was written by a developer who stole most of the code and copied the rest from a existing operating system (which I cannot recall at this time). both were In negotiations with IBM. just Microsoft lied through their teeth to get the contract and won.

    apple at the same time had fallen behind. the Lisa and apple II were still running a basic interpreter on top of ROMMON. Wozniak who wrote ROMMON and later large portions of apples next two OSes including OSx. kept pushing to get a actual Unix like Operating system on the device.

    however Steve jobs was cruel, and demanded no new changes... it's why Wolfenstein was nearly out before a true OS existed from Apple... Steve had a long history of trying to control advancement through forcing model version advancements with weaker hardware than the previous so you would be encouraged to upgrade.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    no?

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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Yes

    In the 90’s there entire mailing list and Apple paid advocates. Many in my generation used Apple computers in school and carried them forward, when I got to college there were Apple specific computer labs.

    I’ve been using Apple computers since 1980, Linux really didn’t become mainstream and usable until the late 90’s

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    Linux didn't exist until 1991. Though there may have been some people in the 80s who were used to Unixes running on workstations that thought that MS DOS and the Windows software was stupid. But who knows.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Yggdrasil was introduced in β€˜92, Debian and Slackware β€˜93 so it worked well enough in the early 90’s to be usable.

    I didn’t really install Linux until β€˜04ish so I have zero real world experience with early Linux, but it’s interesting to follow the Slackware forum on LQ to hear what the truly old school folks have to say.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    was plenty on the mailing lists and Berkley message boards to suggest they hated DOS at the time. mainly because it was being bundled with workstations despite all the effort to get it treated as a multi-user OS, when terminal sharing was still a thing and M$ still didn't have a solution.

    ~ I'm old...

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    • [–] 114 points 7 months ago (41 children)

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  • [–] 62 points 7 months ago (22 children)

    My bank has a website I can use to bank through, I dont even need an app.

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  • [–] 44 points 7 months ago (21 children)

    The whole issue with banking apps must seem strange to people in some countries, and make perfect sense to people in other countries. My whole country rely on a 2FA app made by the banks. It's in every aspect of society. Buying a bus ticket, booking a time for health care, doing taxes, applying for an apartment, signing contracts, all done with the same banking app. Only people with stallmanesque convictions manage without, with lots of effort. So far that app works on e/os/ and GrapheneOS, but not regular desktop Linux.

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  • [–] 56 points 7 months ago (17 children)

    Oh, that's a terrifying single point of failure.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I agree, and it's run by private companies who could just shut it down or use it in evil ways. Our government is maybe making a state owned solution, but it will take time.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    2FA is the opposite of a single point of failure though. In order to impersonate you someone has to have access to your authentication device and your master password. There are no passwords to remember or get leaked/stolen, and you still have traditional identification and a physical backup in the form of codes or an authentication device.

    In Sweden it's like a minute of your time to set up a new phone, or at worst a trip to the bank if you lost your authenticator.

    It also has a screen showing what information or authorization is being requested so that it's much harder to get scammed.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I think they meant that the single app by all banks can go down through backend crash, buggy/malicious app update, etc.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I guess, but I've gone without BankID for about month previously. (It was my own fault for procrastinating multiple things.) You don't need it; it's just very convenient.

    I'm having difficulty envisioning a malicious update. There's a lot of transparency and regulations.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Ah right, that makes sense. If it were like upi or pix, and had single point of failure, it would have been scary.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm not familiar with those and would be interested to learn what's bad about them.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Ah, no, sorry about the miscommunication.

    Upi is massive in India. Big to the point that not having access to it is more than an inconvenience, it will be like Microsoft going down.

    However, it is technically a protocol with federated servers and apps. Hence, there's no single point of failure.

    I meant to say if a crucial system with a single point of failure had no alternatives, it would have been scary.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I meant single point of failure as in, if the service gets interrupted you're locked out of alot of shit you need until it comes back up.

    The trade offs may be worth it, because overall that seems pretty useful.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    It's a pain in the ass if you don't have access for whatever reason, yeah. A lot of that could be alleviated by government policies though. I don't think it should be legal for public services to refer you to their website or app when you're asking for help in-person. There's also no laws against businesses refusing cash, and the banks keep removing ATMs, so it's getting harder to manage without relying on a phone. I like e-ID, but I don't like removing traditional human interaction. Kind of like how I love 5G cellphones and hate that they keep removing services like landlines and 2G. Low-tech is vital sometimes.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    This is terrible for disabled people.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    I'm having trouble imagining how this makes anything more difficult than a traditional password setup. Can you please explain?

    I know there's issues surrounding its use, but solving those issues involves changing other policies, not getting rid of e-identification. For example, allowing someone to access their medical records in person instead of demanding they use the website, a problem which would persist with a username and password.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I recently got back to my country. They have e-id. I opened an account. Got paid. My phone broke. Signing up to the app requires a computer with an e-id reader. I use it once every couple of years. It took me ages to find one. Only to realize the stupid browser extension wasn't working with linux. At the end I had to go to the stupid city hall. I'm disabled. I would rather use my personal passphrase. What seems easy to you may not be for everybody. I hate it here. Everything is bureaucratic, security first so that the already rich banker doesn't loose 20 euros to fraudster, nothing it adapted, everything is loud and complicated and annoying.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I hope I haven't given the impression that I don't take your experience seriously. I only ask questions to understand things better.

    Would having the option to use a personal passphrase in lieu of the usual e-id solve your problem entirely, or would further measures be needed?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Well it would help, but generally speaking, it's about cognitive load. Making things simple for people is nice for the commoner, but for an eldery or disabled people, it can be vital.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, I've noticed that the elderly here tend to opt for physical bus cards rather than using the app, and I often help them with bus times since all the signage has been phased out. I really think there ought to be more accessibility laws; it's not good for anyone if people are losing their independence.

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  • [+] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Many of the elderly don't know how to use their phones well, but most (from my experience, not actual data) can use BankID without issue because it's simple to use. Before BankID they used much fussier code-based authenticators, so I think most people old enough to remember that are happy for modern convenience.

    But a lot of web- and app-based services are less accessible for them. Finding out the bus times, navigating health services, and paying bills are often not available through traditional low-tech means. They also have the problem of not understanding why their old phone suddenly doesn't work anymore. (They just took down the 2G network, for instance, and BankID no longer supports Android 9 and lower, if I'm remembering the right version.)

    On most public transport nowadays it's impossible to buy a ticket while boarding, but there isn't so much as an automated ticket machine anywhere anymore. There are very nice customer service centers at central stations, but that doesn't help the people trying to get to the central station.

    There are a lot of problems, but I don't think BankID is causing the most egregious ones. It's a problem if you can't access online banking because you can't use the software to log in, but it's even more of a problem if you don't have the alternative of physical banking because society is cashless. It should be made more possible to live without digital services and smartphones even though I personally enjoy them.

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  • [–] 30 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Banks website works.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    On the subject of banks, some cuntey banks only provide two options: app and in-person visits. So if you live out of state and the app doesn’t work for you on your version of Android, you’re fucked

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Banks in my country don't even do in person anymore. I hate these fucks

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I'm disabled. Android and iOS have terrible accessibility. And so do banks

    Not surprising to see the genapos have bad take lmao

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    You make a lot of assumptions about me for someone who doesn’t know me.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    I do. I'm your daddy.

    You could call once in a while you know? Mum is worried about you

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    [–] 15 points 7 months ago (24 children)

    I feel kinda trapped into iOS. i have a whole ecosystem I've been invested in for ages. Plus if I leave my wife will crucify me. also bought this expensive ass phone and that's it for now.

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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Well yeah that's Apple's whole shtick, making anything only compatible with their own ecosystem with as much lock-in as possible. It's a genuinely drug dealer-like approach, they've even got "the first one's free" with cheap Ipads and Neo.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    What, Apple forbid developers to have their apps on multiple platforms?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    By the time they're done with the app publication process they're bankrupted

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    I feel kinda trapped into iOS. i have a whole ecosystem I’ve been invested in for ages.

    WE FUCKING WARNED YOU

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    We FuCkInG wArNeD yOu

    Bud I've been doin my best I don't need this.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, you're good. Some people are just bad at expressing themselves.

    We all understand the systems that they use to tie you into their walled garden.

    Escaping takes time and money now (and it isn't like PC hardware is cheap currently...). You can still get a cheap tower from whatever marketplace/craiglist service is popular where you live and setup a Linux server and do things that are compatible with your existing devices like pi-hole, Jellyfin, etc.

    I know a lot of programmers and sysadmins that use Apple laptops to interface with their Linux backend.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Stop shaming people for changing their mind or coming around to what you've been saying with this bullshit. BE more WELCOMING!

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (1 child)

    "I know everyone warned me walking in lava was a bad idea. but my wife, who is addicted to tiktok and lives beyond her means constantly, Insisted it's amazing. the best new trend. now I'm locked in...

    litterally, I'm locked in, the hospital won't let me leave as I have no legs. I'm stuck... I don't know what to do. ~ Sent from a iPhone"

    yes, please shame. shame is effective tool. it's the same tool that got people into using apple ecosystems in the first place.

    build up enough frustration, they will download their data to file, sell their devices and jump ship. while telling their wife to "please think beyond a check mark, or will I have to bail you out of jail when your smashing TVs in the shops because of a tiktok trend telling you to".

    it's hard to switch and go against the flow. the longer you wait, the harder it gets. till one day, you cannot leave at all.

    (most of this is a joke)

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  • [+] -1 points 7 months ago (5 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Fuck off you clown. You ain’t warn nobody.

    I have been hating on macs since the ipod took off, for the same reasons people are mad at enshittification and lack of control over your own hardware.

    No one listened, and here we are.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    This is the first I've heard you say anything on the topic, hmm curious

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    The difference with Linux is that instead of investing money into your ecosystem, you invest your time. What is worth more to you?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    with Linux, you invest your time once. with apple, android and M$ you invest your time, and your money after every patch and change.

    every new subscription fee, every added bug that's actually a "feature", every forced "upsell" for a "feature" they once offered but removed to put it behind a paywall, shove AI into it and host it from a "cloud" server 2000km away.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    I think people interpreted my comment differently than I expected. Most people are Linux users because they like tinkering with their computer. That takes time. Getting all your devices/accessories/accounts working on Linux that used to work on other OSes takes time because they probably don't have 1st party support. Otherwise you can use Android or Apple or whatever and just take what you get with less tinkering.

    I've been using the same pro Windows license that I got for free in college and have never paid Microsoft a dime. I don't know of any forced subscription fees. Paying for more cloud storage, etc. is a shitty practice but certainly not unique to MS.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    what year do you think it is?

    I am using my VR headset playing half-life alyx, while using my premium Logitech mouse, Elgato stream deck and streaming to YouTube.

    nothing has any issues. all of my messaging services have apps and just work "out of the box". setup took me maybe 20 minutes. most of it was just going to my phone for 2fa.

    only time this is ever a issue is obscure, windows only applications that use special hardware authentication like some old CAD software. or some silly editing software like Adobe cloud who intentionally block Linux. (also older adobe software is better anyways and works. Linux alternatives exist and work equally as good.)

    I remember how it was 5 & 10 years ago. struggling at each step. but it's not the case today. on the rare occasion I need to spend time diagnosing something, it's usually because the company behind it did something disgusting, that makes me want to stop using their services anyways.

    it's rarely ever hardware or software that doesn't use online services.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Just two years ago I switched back from popos to Windows for HDR (no mainline support at the time), Logitech gaming mouse/keyboard support (basic m/k functionality worked but the programmable keys were spotty), motherboard temperature monitoring SW (motherboard too new to get reliable values), and occasional instability or weird rendering in gaming (Nvidia).

    Linux works great for some scenarios. Development in Linux is great. But it depends on your use cases.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    one of the things I've been happy about in the last 24mo, is the HDR and NVIDIA support. until last year I was still using my old 2070 (non super) as I was waiting to upgrade.

    that became more and more rock solid on the open NVIDIA driver.

    when KDE put HDR into stable and then proton got HDR. now Firefox and Chrome. I've been in bliss. I don't even get this good of HDR support on windows and I still have that on a secure NVME for work lol

    there is 2 apps for modifying Logitech kbd controls. I don't use either, but I would take a look at some wikis if you try again. personally I just avoid logi for anything but mice and webcams. also avoid Razr for anything, backdoors in their drivers are just plain stupid.

    motherboard sensors I can get, I have a issue with mine with lmsensors, I'm a longtime Linux user so I can navigate to fix that with some dkms kernel modules... but I totally get how and why this would be a issue and full blame lmsensors for being too bloody slow mainlining sensors... license shenanigans are a pain.

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