top 74 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 71 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (33 children)

If this is true, the EU better be figuring out how to change that price calculus for them.

Which makes me doubt an open admission actually did happen, since China would understand the possibility for blowback.

  • source
  • hideshow 33 child comments
  • [–] [S] 34 points 1 year ago* (13 children)

    I used to joke that China wants to trade Ukraine for Taiwan, now it is very clear: you shut up about helping/recognizing/arming Taiwan and we keep a leash on russia...until next time...

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 13 child comments
  • [+] 8 points 1 year ago (12 children)
  • [–] [S] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Exactly, Taiwan made sure it was worth defending, but I fear that this will lose value over time. Besides you never know what stupid shit is going to come out of tramp's brain the day anything escalates.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [+] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Trade worth considering for Europe. Huh. So fuck the Taiwanese, if that's good for Europe?

    This kind of thinking by Westerners is why "multipolar world" as a concept is so popular.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    No. Multipolar means everyone can have multiple independently powerful allies/enemies. It means India, ASEAN, etc. being powerful enough to step in and help ROC when westerners decide to abandon it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    China is clearly responding to EU leaders like Kallas saying China is next.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihQTS1RC50A

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 18 child comments
  • [–] [S] 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    "Take on" is doing the heavy lifting in that whole video. It means dealing with all sorts of hybrid warfare on the part of China, like cyberattacks or funding Orban and far-right parties or taking on the cheap electric vehicles. It does not mean going to war with China. Even if you look at NATO's documents, it is referred to as a long-term challenge, not a direct threat.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Again, this is in the context of Obama's pivot to Asia. China sees what your saying as excuses and wants the EU to prove their not just following US orders. Which you've said over and over again they won't decouple so China doesn't believe them.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Well, things were slightly better before COVID, after that, the EU decided to derisk, because trust in China actually decreased across the board. In other words, the US is not as untrustworthy as China...yet.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Ok well we are talking in the context of if true then EU should x. Well it's only true if the EU continues to want to confront China. China is simply saying that's up to you

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    yeah...really puts the maga view of Europe of "pathetic freeloaders" into context...I just don't believe that leaving the US would make Europe safe. On the contrary. I actually fear a grand bargain to finally destroy liberal democracy between idiot dealmaker trump and rising power Xi. Their interests are aligned in this respect: as long as it exists anywhere, liberal democracy is a threat to their political projects.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Well, this puts us well out of the realm of is what China saying evil, it's not it's just telling the EU to choose. And instead into the realm of grand strategy of nations. I would love to continue the conversation, but this will be rife with opinions and wild inaccuracies. I don't agree with what your saying but for me to explain would be long, as well as I can't be sure I am right.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Maybe.

    To be clear this is an outlet for pro-Ukrainian propaganda with stories that have quite often never been verified or repeated. I get it, they're fighting a war for survival, but I still will take it with a grain of salt especially when it sounds unlikely.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Not maybe, Wang Yi literally said we cannot let Russia lose because the US will pivot to China. It's a not subtle way of saying if you guys keep talking about taking out China, we obviously won't help you.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    The second paragraph added some important context, if you skimmed over it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    Except even the president of Taiwan has already said he is willing to negotiate a merger. And the KMT is gaining in popularity, the pro-China party. Why would an invasion even be in the cards? Oh wait, you think that because you don't actually know what's going on in Taiwan at all but keep speaking for us.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Lol. In 2025 your propaganda bot should be able to scan conversations better than this one.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Lol let me guess instead of fact checking me you'll tell me I can't speak English and hang up

    https://youtu.be/JDR5itJtZU8

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Clearly, you can speak English quite well, just not understand it.

    I actually can respond to this, for the real people reading. KMT isn't pro-China, just more confrontation averse with them. These are the guys that fought Mao, right? And, they lost the last election handily to the radical anti-Chinese candidate. Not sure WTF is up with the claim about the president.

    But, we were never talking about Taiwan, and definitely not about the Uighur genocide.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    You brought up the second paragraph. You brought up Taiwan. I'm just calling KMT pro-China to be aggressive with you. But your actually right, I am surprised you knew even that much.

    Edit I accidentally hit send. Here's the merger talk

    https://youtu.be/QQCRmOPeHLM

    I mean to say knew that much about the kmt

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Oh, the second paragraph of my comment, not the article. Kyiv Independent is questionable as a source, basically.

    Sorry for calling you a bot.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Oh jeez my bad. Anyway I actually hope William lai negotiates with China. China is clearly trying to buy time now and drag out negotiations to let the KMT get more power. I'd rather William negotiate as I think he'll get a better deal.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    This does not seem likely.

    There has to exist a reason for Wang Yi opening some cards, but Kaja Kallas is not that reason. Wang Yi does not make uncoordinated statements and Kaja Kallas isn't attempting to achieve that either.

    Somewhere in the CCP political bureau, it was agreed that Wang Yi will send this public signal.

    The reason could be something in China, something in Russia, something in Europe or in the US. What is the reason? I don't know currently, but I'm not the only one solving this puzzle.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    As I said EU leaders, it's obviously not just Kallas. But really China's simply trying to create a rift with the US and EU. With Trump, they're hoping there's an opening. They don't really care if the EU supports China, they just hope they see the US as toxic. Which is why Wang Yi said China can't let Russia lose because USA will pivot to Asia, they want to make clear that is toxic thinking.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago

    Implying that the US could be too focused on Russia right now to help Taiwan defend against a Chinese invasion sounds like wishful thinking considering how little they are doing to help Ukraine.

  • source
  • [–] 173 points 1 year ago

    "Because that would be totally devastating to our plans for Taiwan."

    💩

  • source
  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] [S] 6 points 1 year ago

    True, they can demand Haishenwai and Outer Manchuria all the way to and including lake Baikal to help russia keep what it has stolen from Ukraine. Or else...geh fuck yourselves.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 64 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    That is a startlingly weak position for China to be in.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Not really startling. No big player other than Russia has ever been on China's side RE Taiwan.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I feel like Russian support is pretty much a rounding error when it comes to Chinese power.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I suspect the concern is that no one, including China itself knows how strong they would be in a military conflict, since they haven't been in an at scale conflict in living memory, using economic power instead to great effect.

    If they are really wanting to violently assert their view on Taiwan, they want global attention divided.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago

    Sure you can.

  • source
  • [–] 50 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    It still baffles me how people manage to justify China's position on Russia. Sure it's "geopolitics" but if you take a look at domestic propaganda in China itself it's certainly much more than that.

    Check out videos of what Ukrainians deal with while living in China - its down right disgusting how brainwashed Chinese are equating Zelenskyy to the likes of Hitler in Ukrainian's faces and thsse are just normal people in apolitical contexts like nurses in hospitals. It's absolute insanity.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [+] 30 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I lived and worked in China for a year (Shenzhen). There was a palpable sense of brainwashing and/or an overpowering air of unhealthy patriotism there. Which made it stranger for me as I had Chinese friends and coworkers that seemed like decent normal people, we went to bars and drank and joked together. But whenever the topic of China as a country and its policies came up, everyone had a similar change in attitude and unwavering loyalty to the government.

    I never felt that I was being targeted specifically, but I also never felt truly comfortable for a number of reasons. I’m glad I got to expand my horizons and experience a bit of what the country/city had to offer, I don’t think I would willingly go to live there again.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    This roughly aligns with my xperience, although if they really get to know you some will be more forthright about their politics. Many look longingly to what we have in the west.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    As a side note: there is speculation that China may be approaching a change of leader due to Xi experiencing health issues (not a change of leadership in the wider sense - the collegial system of the CCP is considered to be functioning).

    Thus, it may be impossible for the Chinese foreign minister to be fully confident of what China's policy will be in the future.

    Obviously, China views it as unacceptable for Russia (its ally and soon enough, practically its vassal) to all-out lose. (The easiest way to not lose, of course, is not starting a war, but that train is long gone and behind the hills.)

    Prolonging the war does not eliminate this risk well, however - exhaustion could spread in Russian society and morale could collapse despite the state spewing its propaganda, or the economy could collapse. So, simply propping up Russia by letting them buy the goods they shouldn't be getting is not a very elegant solution. Direct interference on behalf of Russia would lead to open hostility with the EU, which is currently ambivalent about China.

    What remains is nudging Russia to negotiate. But Putin is hard-headed and only willing to negotiate Ukraine's surrender, on terms which Ukrainians will laugh out of the door.

    As for the US being able to focus on China, well I guess they're a bit concerned about it, but given the mental and organizational capability of the current US leadership, I don't think Chinese analysts are particularly worried.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    I only see news relating to General Zhang Youxia and replacing Xi Jinping with Wang-Yi in Indian news sites, is this related to their recent renewed support for the Dalai Lama out of the blue?

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 23 points 1 year ago

    Hey well maybe that would have been a good consideration to make before tying themselves to the outcome by tacitly (and directly) supporting Russia for profit in the first place. When your fortune is dependent on the eradication of millions of people, by choice, you deserve to lose, and can go kick rocks for all I care. Slava Ukraine.

  • source
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    For now. Ideally they lose in a few years once China has a better position

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    U.S. President Donald Trump, who has not managed to broker a promised ceasefire between Moscow and Kyiv, has long viewed China as the United States' main adversary and is predominantly focused on relations between the two nations.

    Heys the only one that can negotiate a peace. On day one!

  • source
  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago

    Ahh, so Trump gets his orders from the Chinoruskie empire...

  • source
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    World War 3 foreshadowing for the next season of the This Crazy Fucking Timeline show

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (9 children)

    Well, we are currently teeing it up.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I think we're already in it. A world war, as I understand it, is basically just a situation where a variety of alliances and tensions build up until when a war erupts in one spot it rapidly spreads around to involve a large number of countries world-wide. That seems to be the case already, you can easily build a Pepe Silvia wall-of-crazy showing all the connections between Russia and China and Iran and Syria and Israel and Hungary and Ukraine and Belarus and the United States and Taiwan and on and on. The actual shooting pew pew warfare is still relatively confined (though bear in mind that literally a million Russian casualties have happened over a thousands-of-kilometers-long front line riddled with trenches and minefields, which is pretty significant) but all these countries are throwing their weight in on those fights and it's easy to imagine them branching out quite quickly when conditions change.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    You make a good point. I see it as the U.S. being in a Cold War type situation, but as you note, there are already regional conflicts. However, even during the Cold War the U.S. was involved in conflicts in Korea and Vietnam, where it saw itself as trying to stem the growth of Communism being spread by the Soviet Union.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    I think you've got an overly narrow view of "direct involvement." If I'm in a war with someone and a country tells me "here, take these weapons" and I say "you know I'm going to use these weapons to kill soldiers of the country I'm at war with" and they say "yes, we know. We actually have some specific conditions about how and where you can use these to kill them, and some satellite photos to help you target them" then I'd call that direct involvement. Flesh-and-blood soldiers are only one small part of a nation's military these days and not every part of a military needs to be involved for the military overall to be involved.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [+] -2 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I don't care about what international law says, this is what world war means as I understand it. I said that to begin with. International law is often even more nebulous and open to interpretation than most national law given there isn't really a universal framework for adjudicating it.

    I'd be curious for a citation, though. I looked for some and found way more instances where international courts and laws held that supplying weapons counted as being involved in a war than the contrary. For example:

    • The law of neutrality (Hague V & XIII of 1907) prohibits neutral states from furnishing “supplies of war” to any belligerent. Violating that duty strips a state of its neutral status and exposes it to lawful countermeasures by the aggrieved party.
    • Under state-responsibility rules (ILC Articles on State Responsibility, Art. 16), a state “aid[ing] or assist[ing]” another in committing an internationally wrongful act—armed force included—is complicit, provided it does so with knowledge of the circumstances.
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    TACO boy is playing right into the hands of Russia and China like a four year old wanting personal fame and profit.

  • source
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Short notice that kyivindependent.com is certainly not neutral on this.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    What Confucious say about rainchecks?

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Wang's reported comments suggest that Russia's war in Ukraine may serve China's strategic needs as focus is deviated away from Beijing's mounting preparation to launch its own eventual invasion into Taiwan.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    any sociological doctorates in here? What does it say about the state of the ruZZian war, when chinas FM weighs in on their vision for the war?

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [+] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] [S] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Before they invaded Ukraine the 2nd time they had a fearsome reputation militarily and they had some goodwill in Europe (misplaced, but they were seen as misunderstood, not fascists), they had surplus resources to help their allies in Syria, Iran, etc and their weapons sold all over the world, so they were not a vassal state of China, they had lots of options economically, politically, militarily and were free to move about money/spies/etc. Now they have much less options...but maybe tramp will give them some in exchange for nothing...

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›