I've seen several references to some sort of rift between the users of these instances today. What's happening?

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[–] 93 points 9 months ago (6 children)

I just want to add to the discussion that I think it's perfectly healthy if two instances don't like each other and/or have different outlooks - it's the beauty of the fediverse and having decentralisation that they don't have to agree on everything.

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  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    ml and other tankie instances are actual cess pits of dangerous misinformation, delusion and abusive cult activity

    actually bad for members and the wider world

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Obviously this is my opinion based off observations I've made, and not every user or sub in each instance falls under this generalization.

    Both instances have a lot of users, and they have ideological differences, so they inevitably butt heads. Depending on who you ask, ML mainly has socialists, communists, or tankies. World seems to be more centrist leaning to the left, but it seems to be accepting of a more varied range of political opinions. Considering a lot of Lemmy users came from Reddit, I think a comparison can be drawn. My opinion is that World users have an ideology similar to most of Reddit and seem more likely to have left Reddit because they took issue with specific Reddit admin policies. On the other hand, ML users would have had an ideology that was more fringe for Reddit, and while they may have had issues with Reddit admins as well, they seem more likely to have left Reddit because their views were not well accepted among Reddit's general population.

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  • [–] 64 points 9 months ago (16 children)

    The stereotype is that Lemmy.ml wants to play with Stalin's balls. Lemmy.world wants to play with, I don't know, Obama's balls? With Bernie, Bill Clinton, and Reagan watching from the corner?

    Something like that, anyway.

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  • [–] 39 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    World is after ML for being Stalinists and ML is after World for not being Stalinists hah

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    Wouldn't it be Leninists? Like the 'l' in 'ml'?

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    No, Leninism is different. Marxism-Leninism specifically was a creation of Stalin.

    Marxism–Leninism was developed from Bolshevism by Joseph Stalin in the 1920s based on his understanding and synthesis of classical Marxism and Leninism.

    When talking about Stalinism people often means not just that ideology but also the brutal way it was implemented and how the country was ruled

    Stalinism is the means of governing and Marxist–Leninist policies implemented in the Soviet Union (USSR) from 1927 to 1953 by Joseph Stalin. It included the creation of a one-party totalitarian police state, rapid industrialization, the theory of socialism in one country (until 1939), forced collectivization of agriculture, intensification of class conflict, a cult of personality,[1][2] and subordination of the interests of foreign communist parties to those of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, deemed by Stalinism to be the leading vanguard party of communist revolution at the time.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Marxism-Leninism was synthesized by Stalin, but like the name suggests, is over 90% Marx and Lenin. Stalinism is typically used coherently to describe the policies of the Stalin-Era of the USSR. Those calling Marxism-Leninism "Stalinism" typically are trying to use Stalin's name as a way to bash Marx and Lenin's theories and practice.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Not really sure why you're acting like it's unexpected to be corrected on a misconception.

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  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Clairvoyancy is just one of my many skills. Another prediction: this chain won't stop until I stop it because you want to have the last word. It sounds crazy but just wait and see

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I signed up for the developer's instance because fuck reddit, and I do dev work.

    Server choice had nothing to do with any political shit. I barely knew what federation was at the time. Lemmy immediately proved there are as many bandwagoning idiots as reddit here.

    I have nothing to say about world though, I don't use the platform that much.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I originally did this and ended up having to remake my account on .world. I just couldn't stand the negativity and constant fighting on .ml. I was able to find a non-ml alternative to every community I was subscribed to. YMMV but it was completely worth it for me

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago*

    The fediverse isn't going to be one all-encompassing thing like reddit. As time goes on, there will be different "sections" of the fediverse to accommodate people with different interests.

    Lemmy.world, being run by pussies, thinks that because they're the largest instance right now that they get to dictate the direction the fediverse goes in. As more people wake up to their censorship, more instances will sprout up to resist it.

    It's great that nobody is beholden to the decisions of either instance's admins. That's the beauty of the fediverse.

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  • [+] 28 points 9 months ago (23 children)
  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I get more of an impression that people in general do not understand what they believe. There's a lot of that in the post information era we live; its also an easy excuse to look down my nose at people of course lol.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I think this is pretty insightful. There also is no definitely right answer. Some people may view China as communistic and others may view them as a dictatorship.

    Considering they made more billionaires than the US this last year I think the communism thing is a bit of a stretch. At this point they are looking pretty fascist to me. Obviously ML isn't going to agree to that

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  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago

    Public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, and the working classes control the state in China, it's therefore socialist. Socialism isn't the absence of private property, it's the gradual transformation of capitalism into communism, and as such the growth of secondary and medium firms creates new billionaires in China. What happens over time though is that these firms, as they grow, are folded into the public sector.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    It's not even that. The specific brand of "communist" the ML admins stan is really just redfash, so all other leftists despise them, even as they insist their 100 year old dogma is the only correct philosophy.

    It's also not just that. Dessalines and Nutomic are just basic fucking assholes. Petty and power hungry, and occasionally transphobic, they spend more time banning users and making drama for stupid shit, than they spend writing code, and then have the audacity to guilt people for money.

    Dessalines in particular is so fucking cringe, he literally will not post outside of his shitty little fiefdom, because he cannot handle any internet where he doesn't have his little "I win" ban button.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    ML users aren't really communists though - they are leftist MAGAs who believe in alternative facts, only paying lip service to communist principles but not in a genuine manner. i.e. tankies.

    img

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago

    The overwhelming majority of practicing communists are Marxist-Leninists, and genuinely carry out Marxist principles. When this runs counter to liberal narratives, liberals assume communists must be brainwashed.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (13 children)

    It's the authoritarian part LW disagrees with. I think the .world admins would have long defederated ML, but since the lemmy coders are situated on .ML, thats not such an attractive option. Desalines and Nutomic are hardcore tankies and bigots, which crush any dissenting voice on .ml. Even worse, if you want to support lemmy development, the finances of .ml and development budget are intertwined, so every donation for lemmy also supports tankies. It's the reason i switched to piefed,

    If you want examples of how those two run their digital kingdom, take a look at !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works - most posts are about .ml.

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  • [+] 8 points 9 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    No they don't, apart from edgy internet leftists who haven't studied any political theory outside of their sheltered internet canon. The modern internationale, Jacobin, etc, actively avoid the idiotic campism and autocratic baggage the tankies cling to as they relitigate the cold war. There has been a century of revisionist leftist theory since Lenin's "theory" about how everything Lenin does is great even if it is transparently hypocritical. Most of the leftist world has moved on, but tankies still live on that mountain.

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  • [+] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    The absolute gorgeous irony of MLs saying they don't want to be lectured about politics.

    But hey, I'm not your psychiatrist, so if you want to maintain this delusion that ML orthodoxy represents some singular, uncorrupted ideal which actually holds any relevant influence anywhere in the world, then by no means will I interfere with your monumental significance.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I'm not anti-communist. I'm anti-authoritarian.

    Being a communist does not imply supporting Russia, because Russia is not communist in any way, it's a dictatorship.

    Being a communist also does not mean being pro China, because even if China implements parts of communism, communism does not imply eradicating the identity of minorities and censoring whatever the party does not like - i think communism, free speech and a multicultural society do not exclude each other.

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  • [+] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    There is a difference between standing for your core values and defending them vs crushing civil liberties and fucking up minorities. I would be very much china-friendly if they weren't so heavy on the censorship - both wiping out a lot of local cultures and suppressing critics, at home and especially abroad - and less biased towards the Han-Chinese population, and to be honest, I don't think the CCP actually needs those points to keep their power., these are self-serving actions to make sure that only themselves and noone else gets a say, like another communistic party that might do things different. Those points are a no-go for me, so i cannot be pro China.

    Russia is not communist, not in the slightest. It's the embodiment of feudalistic hypercapitalism - no worker has had any power in Russia for a long time. Wars of Aggression aren't in the interest of the populace either - and it's not their first - especially when it involves staggering losses that are only second to WW2.

    I also didn't say anything about GETTING power. I do not like the thought of violent uprisings, but i acknowledge that it might be needed for a change like that.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago

    The PRC actually has very good ethnic minority protections, both legally and culturally. For example, ethnic minorities were exempt from the One Child Policy, and ethnic minorities at the level of the NPC are better represented than the Han majority by population ratio. The PRC does practice censorship, but this is largely reserved for capitalists and those trying to undermine socialism, a method of self-defense learned by observing western-backed propaganda undermine other socialist countries.

    As for the Russian Federation, communist orgs only critically support it in its actions undermining the global hegemony of western imperialism. Nobody really likes the modern Russian Federation, and everyone would rather the soviet union still be here.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago

    I’m not anti-communist. I’m anti-authoritarian.

    Part of being a communist is recognizing what it means to even be "authoritarian." It means (among many other things) that you have examined that word and it's various meanings and how it holds up to what's really happening in the material world, and how it relates to the way societies actually work. Not just some nebulous "vibes" regarding what kind of images float around in our heads when the word is spoken. In other words, materialism vs idealism.

    Being a communist does not imply supporting Russia, because Russia is not communist in any way, it’s a dictatorship.

    I doubt you could find a single communist who believes that modern Russia is communist because it isn't. We all can agree that it is not. Likewise I think every communist you could find would say that modern Russia is at best a disgusting capitalist disgrace to its Soviet history. But to call it a "dictatorship" especially without also recognizing other capitalist nations similarly as "dictatorships" is just a failure of understanding of what that word means, but I won't say more on it because ordnance_qf already did. So let's move on to "support" of Russia. As a communist (Marxist Leninist, aka "tankie") I do NOT support Russia in its capitalist endeavors. Again, I doubt you can find a communist who does. But I can still look at Russia's position on the world stage at this time and see that because of its material interests (and not because it's "the good guy" - it isn't, and not because it's current government has noble intentions - they don't), it is supporting the global south in the latter's struggle against imperialism. And it is US imperialism that is the boot on the neck of the peoples of the Global South. For liberatory revolutions to be able to survive before being strangled in their nascency, the pressure of that boot must be reduced or better yet removed. What I support is Russia's undeniable help in facilitating that. Which is what we as communists mean by "critical support." We highly criticize Russia, but we support it in it's primary fight against the US, NATO, and Western Imperialism (which are all aspects of essentially the same thing) for the sake of revolutionary movements that would thrive were it not for western suppression.

    Being a communist also does not mean being pro China, because even if China implements parts of communism, communism does not imply eradicating the identity of minorities and censoring whatever the party does not like - i think communism, free speech and a multicultural society do not exclude each other.

    I would agree with you that support of China is not a prerequisite of being a communist and there are many communists who do not (including many communists who the anticommunists on this instance would still call "tankies"). China doesn't "implement parts of communism" but China is a Socialist project (where the word "socialism" refers to the transitional stage away from capitalism and towards communism, since unfortunately communism cannot spring fully formed into place). You can be highly critical of China's socialism as many are, but at the very least capital does not enjoy a dictatorship in China as it does in so-called "liberal democracies." However, when you go on to say things like China is eradicating the identity of minorities or the implication that it is not a profoundly multicultural society, that is where I just have to firmly disagree and call "BS." Of course communism and a multicultural society do not exclude each other - they can't exclude each other, by definition. China is very far away from perfect, but to say it is against multiculturalism or worse that it is "eradicating the identity of minorities" is simply the repetition of lies that you were told, lies originating from a state that considers China its arch nemesis and despises it. It's propaganda. This can be confirmed even by going there. So by all means, criticize China, call it out for its actual faults, but find out first what they really are and do not perpetuate demonization, literal sinophobic falsehoods.

    I went into a lot of detail in this response because I think that you and I (and therefore many "tankies") are not actually on very dissimilar tracks, and likewise I suspect with a lot of other people reading this thread. But there is just so much bad faith I see in threads like this, it makes it all but impossible to see the similar tracks. And I think that is often by design. Like another comment I responded to (and tons more I didn't) that just want to smear and demonize without even a hint of a desire to understand, but your comment clearly wasn't like that, and you expressed honest, valid (though towards the end, I would say gravely misled) concerns. I'd bet there are a lot of people who listen to the "tankies are evil red fash" noise and just assume that must be the case without any actual engagement and never actually take the chance to understand the actual position. Those of us who genuinely want sincere, unselfish human flourishing, should be able to find that common ground to actually suss out our positions and learn. But the smarmy and smug anti-tankie crowd do not want to learn and they do not want others to learn. Fortunately many still will, despite them.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    MeanwhileOnGrad is run by a Zionist, and the comm itself serves as a bit of a Nazi bar. Many of the posts also erase vital context, or otherwise misframe users.

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  • [–] 35 points 9 months ago* (7 children)

    Long-standing political differences and an extremely censorious moderation philosophy on Lemmy.ml means there is always tension. I'm not aware of any specific thing that has happened recently though.

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    there was a big post yesterday about 'rent is theft' that had 100s of comments, that was mostly .world vs .ml users.

    the .ml users basically harassed and threatened the .world users who were talking about reasonable reforms on housing prices and the causes for housing price inflation. .ml users think if you talk about facts and reality you are part of the problem and that reality should be re-made such that private property no longer exists and every single person should leave in the same concrete housing blocks like they had in the USSR, or they should be shot.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    I mean, if they all want to move to Russia or North Korea or China, go right ahead, I am not stopping anyone from chasing their bliss. Perhaps I should note that they will end up as fodder for a warlord's lust for conquest, but at the end of the day that is not my call to make as to what to do with your lives.

    But damnit I would like to have some tint amount of control about what to do with my own! Including the ability to block them, if I happen to want that. I almost left Lemmy over precisely this issue, preferring instead to simply read books offline than to have to wade through endless immature eternity of September crap. Fortunately, that's exactly when PieFed started coming up, offering an alternative besides Mbin, and which now offers a heck of a lot more features than either of them.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I'm not sure if there's anything new, just seems to be the standard liberal/leftist beef.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Is that really how you view this? I don't want to start a big argument but I don't find that summary accurate at all.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    Yes, generally. I can be more specific and say "western progressive/Marxist" beef, ie beef between western progressives and Marxists, but that beef is also just generally the liberal/leftist beef.

    I'm not really looking for a fight, either, nor an argument. I generally value productive dialogue, but often that gets shut down by people that don't want that, so it spirals into arguments. See this "exchange" as an example.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    I know you are usually polite which I appreciate. But I gotta say it's not how I would frame it. More like MLs vs. the world. Plenty of leftists on the outside here.

    I wish I could engage in debate on Lemmy.ml but the censorship makes it impossible. I used to learn things from you guys but now I just avoid all those spaces because it's impossible to have a real conversation if you don't 100% agree with Dessalines on every single issue. I don't understand how anyone finds that tolerable.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago*

    In my experience, the ones that get truly censored are the ones that either are insistent on repeating outright misinformation, or genuinely break the rules via ableism, racism, homophobia, etc. I speak with plenty of people that disagree with me on Lemmy.ml, and they usually only get temp-banned if they do one of those things. Permabanning is more for repeat offenses.

    As for it being MLs vs. the world, that really isn't my experience either. I organize in real life with people that don't align with me 100% all the time, and when I'm on Hexbear I obviously get along with Maoists, anarchists, etc. as well. The source of major beef between lemmy.world specifically and Lemmy.ml specifically is as I said, western progressive liberal vs. Marxists, or even more generally liberal vs. leftist.

    If there's something you're interested in discussing, I'm fine to do so, but I don't normally like engaging in spaces that defederate from Hex and Grad, ie apply a blanket firewall against the majority of Marxists on Lemmy. Discussion in non-Marxist spaces, where the majority of commenters are insulated from Marxists, usually results in the kind of slapfighting you see all over this thread over real conversation.

    In spaces that actually allow strong Marxist participation, discussion around Marxism is more intricate, such as this conversation about the subject of "Dengism" I had with someone more critical of China over on Lemmygrad. This is just one example, but it isn't just a one-sided censorship campaign. I have been permabanned from Political Memes for pointing out the DNC's participation in the Palestinian genocide, and from every comm PugJesus moderates because they lost an argument in an unrelated comm. I'm banned from Memes of Production for "voting while tankie," because Deceptichum defended Hungarian Nazis for opposing the soviets. It's tiring.

    All in all, I mean this to say that discussion goes both ways, and it isn't simply because Lemmy.ml unilaterally censors.

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  • [–] 72 points 9 months ago (29 children)

    Visit ML before any major Western election and browse by Local (its default) and you will easily see: ML calls for the literal and actual fall of all Western civilization including the deaths of most to nearly all peoples therein.

    Whereas LW does not want that, go figure. 🤷‍♀️

    Something something bOtH sIdEs SaMe.

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  • [–] 49 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (15 children)

    .ml users are also just immature weirdos. most of my harassing comments calling me insults come from .ml users.

    they don't discuss and they don't read. they just shout and quote russian/chinese state propaganda about how people living in those countries are so wealthy and liberated and so much better than americans or europeans. and if you do cite sources, they tell you that those are american propaganda and all lies and ONLY THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS TELLING THE TRUTH.

    oh, and the .ml opening talk about the power of violence and their violent fantasies of killing everyone who has a modicum of economic security and all claim to be the poorest of the poor, which I highly doubt.

    I was a communist when I was 15, but even back then I was into the utopia part, not the mass murder fantasy part.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago

    Actual communists here are on Threadiverse seem quite emotionally capable and are among the more pleasant to chat with. Examples there include slrpnk.net. I used to also say db0 though there always seems pushback nowadays whenever I include it, but I can't get anyone to give me a solid answer as to why besides unsubstantiated accusations that even on their face looks like pure BS to me. So I guess I'll keep saying it, just noting that it is a controversial point.:-)

    Hexbears on the other hand are trolls, pure and simple, with zero regard for anything other than "the dunk" process of pwning someone - or rather, appearing to, from their own extremely childish POV.

    Lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml then are the leftist MAGAs, believing in alternative facts rather than living in reality. e.g. most claim that they would move to the likes of North Korea in a heartbeat, except, you know... I guess they took an arrow to the knee or some such. 🤪

    I am so glad that I can block people from an entire instance. If I could, I would make an exception to the devs Nutomic and Dessalines out of respect for having offered the Lemmy sourcecode as FOSS, but other than that, I have not missed a single interaction with anyone on Lemmy.ml since I have done so, every time I've checked to see what I might be missing. They are the most batshit insane comments across the entirety of the Threadiverse, after Hexbear obviously.

    img

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (11 children)

    they tell you that those are american propaganda and all lies and ONLY THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS TELLING THE TRUTH

    It's better than that: you can back them into a position that runs directly counter to official CCP policy and they'll claim that it's a "western agitprop translation" from the original language. Support it with translation and testimonials from actual Chinese citizens and those get dismissed because they're impure enough to speak a dirty western language.

    Some fun ice breakers for any ML post:

    • Why is it illegal to form a union in China?
    • Why does the PRC constitution guarantee freedom of the press but journalists require a liscense? [Bonus: how can you quantify a requirement like "journalist ethics"?]
    • Why is the number of executions in China a state secret?

    Edit:

    Cowbee spending 30k words in this comment section to explain how PRC citizens have so many freedoms but they can't use them because it could be counter-revolutionary but that's fine because everyone's interests are perfectly represented by the proletariat government but they don't need a vote in central government because that might undermine the state but they wouldn't vote against the CCP anyway because they're so open and transparent but the CCP shouldn't need to tell their citizens when arrests and executions happen but if they do tell you just trust that it's internal party corruption but a corruptable party doesn't give the proletariat an exuse organize themselves in other ways, which they could but they definitely...

    [and also every ML insists that you don't know an AES state even if you were born in and lived there half your life, you gotta read more T H E O R Y]

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (10 children)

    Why is it illegal to form a union in China?

    It isn't, it just must be a part of the All-China Federation of Trade Unions to ensure that no "independent unions" can be wielded by the west or by capitalists to undermine socialism.

    Why does the PRC constitution guarantee freedom of the press but journalists require a liscense? [Bonus: how can you quantify a requirement like “journalist ethics”?]

    To ensure journalists aren't spreading western disinformation to de-legitimize the state and foment instability, as has happened time and time again in other countries.

    Why is the number of executions in China a state secret?

    For similar reasons as the prior two.

    Edit: Why not respond? You said they were icebreakers, I don't see how editing your comment to essentially add a soyjack meme furthers any of your goals.

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  • [+] 8 points 9 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    I'm against the death penalty in most circumstances, but in the case of China it's largely for corrupt CEOs and sexual assaulters. I'd prefer more of a focus on rehabilitation, but I'm not going to say the PRC is executing people willy-nilly.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    but in the case of China it’s largely for corrupt CEOs and sexual assaulters.

    Isn't drug trafficking and murder also punishable by death?

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Yes, those as well. The PRC is strict about drugs and prostitution in general. I wasn't meaning a full, comprehensive list, but to say that the death penalty is popularly supported there and largely applied for the most serious offences.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah for sure, but I think it's a bit misleading to make it sound like only owners of capital (be it corrupt haute bourgeoisie or human trafficking capitalists) get executed. I don't know the numbers but I'd assume since murder and drug trafficking are also punishable by death, that means most of the people executed are workers, not capitalists.

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  • [+] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    They publicize lots of the information, even if they keep the total secret, and we know that crime rates in the PRC are very low in general. The police don't even carry guns most of the time. Is it a perfect system? By no means. Is it a regularly improving, functional system? Yes.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago

    We actually do read and discuss theory quite a lot, both online and when we are at party meetings (though many times the meetings are for organizing things like protests, or other matters). What you may be noticing is that we don't tend to "quote farm," ie find a relevant quote from a Marxist theorist, and use that as an argument. It's unconvincing and comes across as book worship.

    This creates a 2-sided problem: either we worship theory, or we don't read it at all, in the eyes of liberals. It's a perfect, thought-terminating bubble where there's a great excuse ready-made to not take communists seriously, either we don't know what we are talking about, or we are detached from reality. It's simply impossible for us to not rely on quote farming while actually knowing what we are talking about. Same with "state propaganda."

    I was a communist when I was 15, but even back then I was into the utopia part, not the mass murder fantasy part.

    This more speaks to yourself not knowing what communism is, though. Marx and Engels have railed against utopianism, and were proponents of scientific socialism. Same with the idea of a mass murder fantasy.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Still coming up to speed on the terminology here, but labels aside, I would hope we can all agree on the fact that society should work for the people first. A society that works for corporations and the rich first (I’d argue that most developed nations show advanced stages of this, regardless of capitalist alignment) will decay internally, like a cancer. I think we’ve seen the global decline of society working for their members since the mid 1900’s.

    This has resulted in a broad rightward swing in the US, and to a slightly lesser degree abroad. People feel like they’ve been taken advantage of. And they have been, but mostly by the very rich, and it’s getting exponentially worse by the day.

    Argue nuance if you feel so inclined. But my point is: the more that we’re divided by these labels is to our detriment. And when I say “we”, I mean “not the ownership class.”

    Do you work? Do you draft a paycheck anywhere on earth? Then you’re getting fucked, because those who don’t draft a paycheck to live basically don’t pay anything to partake in society. We pay for them. We truly live in a welfare state, but it’s not the poor that are the recipients but the rich.

    Tankie or not. Western or Eastern. We’re all manipulated into serving the will of the powerful, and constantly at odds with one another when our plight is similar. We all don’t want to get fucked. But the more we’re divided, the easier it is to conquer us.

    Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    You are talking theory.

    Now, in practice invite the MAGA over to your side, and see what happens.

    Good luck!

    Translation: consent needs to matter. Tankies do not care about your consent. They want to advance the cycle through the destruction phase to get to the other side that is all magical rainbows and fairy dust - just exactly like Russia, China, and North Korea are so well-known for, obviously.

    And they will not let anything get in the way of achieving their goals. Not even facts.

    Please do not allow yourself to become used like a tool by the oligarchy. Like both the (leftist) tankies and the (rightist) MAGAs have. They share in common a love for authoritarianism - and guess who gets to be at the top there? Hint: it ain't us!

    Tankies want me and everyone that I have ever known or even met to literally die.

    Something something bOtH sIdEs SaMe.

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  • [+] -19 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Visit .world before any major Western election and browse by Local (its default) and you will easily see: .world will sell out as many Palestinians as it takes to buy political time in hopes of a blue wave that is definitely going fix everything and bring America(TM) back to its wholesome big chungus status.

    Whereas ML does not want to carry out genocide to buy time for pointless political waffling, go figure.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I really do love the tagging feature for the boost app, all I see is green tankie tabs everywhere when you guys show up.

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Oh hey, I remember you. You're the one who was equating anti-capitalism with being tankie.

    https://lemmy.world/comment/21783242

    Not beating the toothless lib allegations...

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Lol yea I'm the toothless one...the guy who's probably been tagged by a lot of people here for being staunchly pro2a and advocating for my LGBTQ+ people to get trained and armed....yea

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Did you vote for Kamala or did you allow Trump to take power?

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Will you be voting for Ted Cruz, or will you allow Mecha Hitler to take power?

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  • [–] 36 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    ML is run by people who are not only communist, but also communists can do no wrong, capitalists can do no right. Just being communist most of us could live with, but the second is a problem. When someone cannot agree things like genocides that various communist governments are a bad it is really hard to have productive conversations.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    yes. the openly call for murder, theft, and various form of violence against their 'enemies'.

    and if you suggest maybe that's not such a great idea, they basically tell you that you should die too.

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  • [–] -4 points 9 months ago

    But on the other hand, perhaps I should smile more, even as I am being murdered? (Dials gaslighting up to 11) Yes, it is surely I who am in the wrong here, rather than them.

    (/s in case it is not abundantly clear)

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