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[–] 252 points 9 months ago (21 children)

Still seems bonkers to me they made anti-fascists the bad guys.

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  • [–] 108 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (19 children)

    It demonstrates they don't comprehend basic English - this statement included.

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  • [–] 66 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Not really. To you, antifa is a loosely-if-at-all organised collection of people united by opposition to fascism. To them, it's a real organisation with actual members who use violence against the government. To you, because the collection isn't really organised, the name determines what it is. To them, because it's a real organisation, the name can be a lie and doesn't matter. To you, direct action against the government is justified, because they're in the process of creating a fascist state. To them, the government isn't fascist, so action against the government can't be on the basis of anti-fascism; antifa must therefore be a dishonest label.

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  • [–] 48 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Ah, but you have made the classical mistake of assuming they think/ actually believe what they are saying and arent just trying to disenfranchise billions.

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Who's "they", now? I think that plenty of politicians knowingly misrepresent things like this, but I don't think the average Trump voter/Fox news watcher understands. Otherwise the politicians and the news just wouldn't have to lie.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    A friend asked me what is antifa... I started carrying crayons after that encounter.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Maybe we need a rebranding change the name to anti-evil. Instead of fascist you say evil

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    But then someone's gonna sweep in with a moral relativistic argument about how "evil is a social construct" and "there's no such thing as absolute evil" and that labelling something as evil is "essentialist"

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    This person may also rant against postmodernism

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I don't get it. I thought moral relativism, anti-essentialism, and critiquing social constructs are all elements of post-modernism?

    Or are you saying I would rant against postmodernism? Cause while I find deconstruction to be useful in certain contexts, denying the existence of evil as a concept seems like an absurdity.

    Instead, I find the challenge to be in defining precisely what constitutes evil in a way that's both narrow enough to not be overextended, while being comprehensive enough to avoid letting certain things slip through the cracks.

    For instance, some things are objectively evil. Slavery, rape, genocide, torture, bombing civilians, child abuse, etc. It would be ridiculous to make a moral relativistic argument against that.

    Some things are not so clearly defined, however. Is capital punishment inherently evil, or does it ever have justified cause? Is eating meat inherently evil? Does that mean everyone who eats meat is an evil person? Another one is this: does circumcision count as child abuse, therefore making it evil? Is modern capitalism literal wage-slavery, making the entire system evil?

    Some people might have firm convictions about the answer to these questions, but if many people have diametrically opposite yet equally firm convictions, does that make the issue in concern a morally relativistic one?

    So defining evil certainly isn't a simple task. But if we had to throw out every concept that's hard to define, we'd have to abandon use of the term "fascism" as well (you know what they say about nailing jelly to the wall).

    Another question about defining evil: is it a property of actions, of agents (actors; i.e., people who do evil things), or of dispositions (tendencies, habits, attitudes, etc.; things that are consistently held properties rather than isolated incidents), or some other thing?

    In other words, if a person tortures a civilian, would you say "He's an evil person," "He did an evil thing," or "He has evil dispositions." Or perhaps some combination of the above?

    Outright rejecting the existence of evil, however, is a flaw of post-modernism. And a true post-modernist wouldn't take that to mean that all of post-modernism is flawed, but simply that it has flaws.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I'm saying that the people currently holding a farcically post modernist take on the idea of evil, are often also ideologically opposed to post modernism. You may say this is contradictory, but to that theoretical you, I say, "yeah, but the main ideology that does this is fascism, and they don't care if they're self contradictory"

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Oh, I think I understand now.

    Honestly, I didn't think the average fascist was smart enough to know what post-modernism is. But then again, there is that weird cohort of fascists that likes to co-opt philosophical-sounding jargon to make themselves seem intelligent while they propound insane and inane theories (such as Curtis Yarvin 🤢). So I think I see your point. Those types would certainly complain about post-modernism because it conflicts with their notion that we need to return to a feudalistic social order because "the past is always better" or something.

    But then again a lot of fascists do believe in absolute evil (as opposed to relativistic evil); only instead of basing their metric on how much intentional, unnecessary, and unjustifiable harm something causes, they base it on whatever their pastor tells them to hate.

    And then there are the ones who say "Yeah, evil exists. It's me, I'm evil." But those are rare. More often I think those are the types who propound quasi-post-modernist perspectives of evil (such as misusing "moral relativism" as an excuse to justify heinous atrocities) in order to obfuscate the moral vacancy and deplorability of their actions and intentions, while simultaneously claiming to be against post-modernism because, like you said, they're self-contradictory and ideologically inconsistent, and post-modernism conflicts with their end goal of establishing neofeudalism...

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Never believe that anti‐ Semites fascists are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti‐Semites fascists have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side.

    • Jean-Paul Sartre

    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Paul_Sartre

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  • [–] 75 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    It tracks that a fascist would present a picture of people who aren’t able-bodied white men and just assume that one should take that as intrinsically negative. It reveals their vile mindset.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    It tracks that they're unable to recognize bravery just like they're unable to recognize freedom. Their entire world view is programmed and skewed by the overclass of people who control every aspect of their lives because they rely on brainwashed obedience to maintain that control.

    They don't ask questions when reality doesn't line up with whatever they're being sold, just let it trickle down their throats and say thank you, while convincing themselves it must only be their imagination that it tastes a little funny. If there was really anything to worry about, surely somebody they trust would say something.

    Bravery is supposed to look like Pete Hegseth criticizing women and trans people in the military while he struggles to do a pull up.

    Bravery is not supposed to look like marginalized people refusing to be intimidated into silence by the anti-egalitarian fascists who "joke" about exterminating them.

    Freedom is supposed to look like a ruling overclass free of the burden of the laws and regulations that were created to protect us from the overclass. In exchange the people that support the overclass are free to "joke" about genocide without fear of social consequences.

    Freedom is not supposed to look like the freedom to stand up to oligarchs for your rights and the rights of others. Including the rights of the morons too dumb to understand who's interests they're looking out for when they willing hand over their own civil rights and liberties to those who claim "democracy is incompatible with freedom."

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  • [–] 70 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    An old woman in a wheelchair stands up to ICE and you're implying she's a loser?

    That woman has more courage in her pinkie toe than you have in your balls you little shit

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago

    There's a guy I know who follows Asmongold and his moron takes. He came out for a group event.

    Super scrawny guy who hides behind his computer and was terrified to walk to his car alone. Blocked him after he mocked protesters.

    He's the image I have of every one of those cucks who lick police boot.

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  • [–] 68 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    Antifa has leaders?! Since when?

    Also anyone who's against antifa, is fascist. By definition.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I mean, there's a picture of stalin above your comment calling him a member of antifa council.

    Some mixed signals there.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    He did fight against the fascists during the second world war. But yeah, mixed signals, for sure.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Let's say country A is imperialist with a bit of fascism sprinkled on top. County B is openly fascist, but has a lot of resources and poses a threat to country B.

    If country A invades, occupies, and crushes country B, is country A inherently anti-fascist? It did fight the fascists.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    I fail to see how that relates to what I said. I said anyone opposed to antifa is fascist by definition. The reverse isn’t automatically true.
    A cow is an animal, not all animals are cows.

    Also I never said that I supported Stalin in anything

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  • [+] -49 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    Anybody who's against North Korea is against democracy. Anybody who's against nazis is against socialism.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago

    Antifa isn't a country, party or group though. It's a loose movement.

    A similar thing would be environmental activist (or enva for short). Sure, you could call yourself environmental activist while adocating against the environment, but that wouldn't mean that environmental activism is bad for the environment, it would mean that you aren't actually an environmental activist..

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  • [–] 42 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Just to be clear, your implication is that Antifa isn't actually anti-fascist, but is fascist themselves?

    Do you realize how hard it would be for antifa, a decentralized concept that people self identify as, to band together to oppress everyone in favor of nationalism? And what nation would they be oppressing for?

    If you are correct, and I want you be clear that you aren't and you're dumb, but if you are correct then I'm fucking impressed by antifa more than ever.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I think they’re just saying names aren’t always accurate, given the North Korea -> democracy (Democratic People’s Republic of Korea) and Nazi -> socialism (National Socialist) examples.

    Antifa is great but sweeping statements based only on a name like the one they’re responding to are definitely not accurate

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    This assumes that antifa is an organization of some sort. If you think of antifa as an identity or aspiration the statement makes sense.

    Edit misspell

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Felsiq is right on the money - it's a braindead argument regardless of how you feel about antifa.

    I don't know why people itt keep saying that "it's not an organization" somehow absolves it of any misdirection regarding its name.

    I suppose a more direct comparison is "if you're anti-pro-life, you're anti-life."

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  • [–] 43 points 9 months ago

    This picture makes my girl parts wet.

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  • [–] 41 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Holy shit. That is awesome. Where do I sign up for Antifa?

    Can I be an anti fascist with out being an Antifa member?

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  • [+] -19 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Yes you can! We desperately need to organize along anti fascist lines without the baggage of the mentally ill maximalist fake left who describe themselves as antifa.

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  • [–] 40 points 9 months ago

    hahahah this is the dopest lineup I've ever seen.

    I want to see this band, I want to watch those models, I want to fund this army

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  • [–] 39 points 9 months ago

    Uh ya. Turns out individuals who had to overcome social, economical, and political oppression seem to be POC, disabled, queer, or a women. They don't see any able bodied white Christan men at the front and freak out. It's because they think we'll treat the way they treat everyone else. So Ya conservatives just think everyone is as evil as they are

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  • [–] 38 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Standing up for the weak? That’s bad now?

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  • [–] 31 points 9 months ago

    I look at that photo and think "hell yeah!"

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  • [–] 31 points 9 months ago

    mechanised infantery in the front

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  • [–] 26 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    John Antifa, Destroyer of Faschists.

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Dumbasses are unable to understand that antifa is a nationwide movement not a centralized organization.

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  • [+] 11 points 9 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    No, you have to be against fascism. If you are neutral you would not be antifa

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  • [+] 6 points 9 months ago* (3 children)
  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Inaction is the sum of it though. Neutrality is benign, but you should probably remove it anyways, right. They aren't holding up their end of the bargain in a society, which is unfortunately taking a side on things. Not being at the table does not make them complicit by and large, but it allows it to happen.

    They also allow good things to happen that they don't necessarily agree with, because they stand aside and grumble to themselves and their tiny circle if not outright ignoring it. It doesn't mean they should not be involved but humanity as a whole has a pact mentality, whereas it's someone else problem, where are we going today?

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago

    Damn that’s inspiring

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I'm picking the one in the helmet for my team of hardened badasses. Anyone who owns a helmet is probably ready to go the distance.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago
    [–] 15 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Strange guardians of the galaxy vibes from the 3 in the front. Drax, starlord, and rocket.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I guess they prefer the orange turd that would be bested by a 10 years old in all fields but bullshitting.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago*

    Ive known some precocious young ones who could give him a run for his money

    4 years ago, I was at a beach party, and stepped down to the water to be downwind of the group for a smoke. My best friends 6 year old walks up to me and asks "can I have a smoke?"
    I tell him no way, hes way too young for such a bad habit. "But my parents let me smoke, all the time"

    "Yeah right, they dont even smoke anymore (quit before his older sister was born)

    "When we went to Russia. They let me smoke there. Everybody smokes there. Id have one after the sauna, and one after dinner each night."

    It was true. They had just got back from russia, a couple months ago. (They were actually there visiting the wife's parents when the war broke out. Whole family managed to escape though, to a relatives home in Bulgaria, and her mom was in the process of emigrating to the US, although I think thats on hold because shes not sure Trumps America is better than Putins russia)

    I knew the grandparents smoked, and dont know enough about Russian culture, so it might be plausible. I know the kids had been offered a shot of vodka, and had spit it out.

    I ended up reiterating he was way too young for such a gross habit, and we went back up to the party. When I told his parents, they had a laugh about it. He would sit around after dinner / sauna with the men, and have a candy cigarette while they all smoked. She also added hed gotten way better at lying over that month.

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